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Post by andrew on Feb 25, 2012 7:53:02 GMT -5
Maybe you are being a bit hard on yourself there Q. It could just be that your mind is naturally very agile and you arent suited to that kind of discipline/practice. Or maybe you just cant really see the benefit of it so there isnt enough motivation. Or maybe a bit of both. In the end, what we really commit to is what we are really interested in. There has to be a good reason in order to commit.
Yoga is really just ATA. Have you been down that route? Even just meditating on the breath is ATA.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2012 8:03:23 GMT -5
Q: You don't "suck big time." You're perfectly manifesting THIS each moment of every day. Remember, you can't screw up being what you ARE.
You've been contemplating the existential issues discussed in this forum for many years, and whether you realize it or not, this, alone, can potentially lead to big surprises.
Remember the monk who could never penetrate the Mu koan? He spent twenty years contemplating the issue without success. He finally concluded that he was just too stupid to "get it," so he left his monastery and gave himself the job of cleaning up a local cemetary where several illustrious sages were intombed. In a sense, he just gave up trying to understand, and resigned himself to his self-imposed task. One day he was sweeping the grounds when a small pebble bounced off the bamboo fence around the cemetary. When he heard that sound, his mind collapsed like a house of cards, and he "got everything," the Mu koan and hundreds of others as well. He subsequently became a famous Zen Master.
Each body/mind is different, and although it is impossible to predict what will happen, I would be willing to bet that you will eventually find whatever it is that you want to know.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2012 8:18:11 GMT -5
I was going to voice my opinion about the Ox Herding thing, but personally, I find maps a distraction from the task at hand. I found that they left me trying to figure out where I was at on the map as opposed to actually making the journey. I think they also reinforce the idea that there's some "one" making progress to get somewhere (all of which are ideas in the first place). I agree, which is why I haven't commented on ox herding, and wasn't figuring on commenting about teacher herding either. God knows we have enough distractions around here. I also agree, and after I saw how peeps responded to the ox-herding pics, I realized that presenting that info turned out to be more of a disservice than a service. I can't even remember why I posted it, but I think it was to say that even oneness and enlightenment have to be left behind. What's important is THIS, NOW.
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Post by question on Feb 25, 2012 9:03:15 GMT -5
Q: You don't "suck big time." You're perfectly manifesting THIS each moment of every day. Remember, you can't screw up being what you ARE. You've been contemplating the existential issues discussed in this forum for many years, and whether you realize it or not, this, alone, can potentially lead to big surprises. Remember the monk who could never penetrate the Mu koan? He spent twenty years contemplating the issue without success. He finally concluded that he was just too stupid to "get it," so he left his monastery and gave himself the job of cleaning up a local cemetary where several illustrious sages were intombed. In a sense, he just gave up trying to understand, and resigned himself to his self-imposed task. One day he was sweeping the grounds when a small pebble bounced off the bamboo fence around the cemetary. When he heard that sound, his mind collapsed like a house of cards, and he "got everything," the Mu koan and hundreds of others as well. He subsequently became a famous Zen Master. Each body/mind is different, and although it is impossible to predict what will happen, I would be willing to bet that you will eventually find whatever it is that you want to know. That's like lottery. An idiot monk who gets lucky. Your story never helps anyone, how could it? It's a terrible example really, you have to take into account all those who wasted their lifes in pursuit of enlightenment and never attained it. Maybe you are being a bit hard on yourself there Q. It could just be that your mind is naturally very agile and you arent suited to that kind of discipline/practice. Or maybe you just cant really see the benefit of it so there isnt enough motivation. Or maybe a bit of both. In the end, what we really commit to is what we are really interested in. There has to be a good reason in order to commit. Yoga is really just ATA. Have you been down that route? Even just meditating on the breath is ATA. Sorry, but I agree. It's like I said a couple of months ago to ZD, I operate on the basis of effort-->reward. If I don't get rewarded then I won't put in any effort, why should I waste my time if there is no benefit? I spent a lot of time meditating, ATA-ing, pranayama, you name it. Guess what I got out of it? Nothing. The only way I had some success is by thinking, I solved a couple of riddles by thinking, but guess what they say it's worth? Nothing.
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jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
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Post by jazz on Feb 25, 2012 9:28:40 GMT -5
I would like to offer a recommendation: Vipassana. It's a buddhist form of meditation which has helped me a lot gaining some insight into the more emotional aspect of grasping and resisting. It also showed me to the observer and the sense of standing by the bank of river. Of course there's no guarantee it will help you the same way but I do believe that it's a powerful practice I did a 10 day silent retreat here in india, and there are centers around the world. You can try and see if you find one in your area. Or do a journey to India Good luck bro .
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Post by andrew on Feb 25, 2012 9:31:51 GMT -5
My computer is behaving strangely, every time I go to 'page 2' it logs me out so I am having to reply on page but I then cant see exactly what you said.
I'm the same. There has to be the potential of reward in order for there to be effort. I have to see clearly WHY I am doing something in order to do it. There has to be some kind of point/purpose to it. Out of interest then, what reward would you be willing to put a lot of effort into achieving? Happiness? Nirvana? Being present? Peace? No more thought?
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Post by question on Feb 25, 2012 10:19:51 GMT -5
My computer is behaving strangely, every time I go to 'page 2' it logs me out so I am having to reply on page but I then cant see exactly what you said. I'm the same. There has to be the potential of reward in order for there to be effort. I have to see clearly WHY I am doing something in order to do it. There has to be some kind of point/purpose to it. Out of interest then, what reward would you be willing to put a lot of effort into achieving? Happiness? Nirvana? Being present? Peace? No more thought? I don't know what nirvana is. I don't care about 'being present' and 'no more thought'. I'm not sure about happiness and peace, I'd say that safety is much more important to me... and really the source of feeling safe to me is money, if I have a lot of money then I feel safe. No, the reason I bother with this is that I'm very competetive/neurotic, to me the world is a jungle. So if someone says something that questions me then I feel threatened and must have what they have or at least I must crush them. I tried to intellectually crush this enlightenment thing but I figured that they really do have something that I don't have and so I must have it, but I can't, because I don't even know what it is that they have and they won't tell me in a way that it makes any sense. And so the circle is now closed and you can see why I hate this whole nonduality business, all it did to me is it increased my neurosis. I've always hated myself and now I hate myself even more... thanks spiritualteachers.org. I know this sounds f*cked up, but that's how I think, just being honest s'all. I don't understand/believe people who say that they are looking for Truth and Peace and whatnot, I think that's total bs, but hey maybe they do, who knows, but I'd bet that the majority of seekers are really seeking for similar reasons as mine. (That is, of course, unless they actually did have an awakening experience, in that case the situation would be entirely different.)
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Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2012 10:48:12 GMT -5
If its a lottery, so what? You won't know you've got the winning ticket until there's no one there to claim it. LOL. In fact, it is a lottery, so get over it! Take a look, and see if what you're really doing is indulging in suckiness because it provides some subtle form of pleasure.
"Oh woe is me. Poor Question. I might have the winning ticket, but I'm not going to do anything to find out, so I'll just sit here and sulk." This is very funny.
You should have met Ramesh because he had just the right words for a suffering seeker. He said, Given a choice between a million bucks and getting enlightened, take the million bucks; at least you'll have something."
You keep saying that you don;t want to make an effort until you're guaranteed to get the reward. Okay, I'll guarantee that if you get so busy and non-reflective that you forget yourself completely, you'll get the ultimate reward, and you won't be there to receive it. I can guarantee that 100%. The fundamental "problem" is that you think there is someone who needs something, and there isn't. Money to feel safe? What a laugh, you silly curmudgeon! You own the whole universe and you don't know it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 25, 2012 10:51:50 GMT -5
My computer is behaving strangely, every time I go to 'page 2' it logs me out so I am having to reply on page but I then cant see exactly what you said. I'm the same. There has to be the potential of reward in order for there to be effort. I have to see clearly WHY I am doing something in order to do it. There has to be some kind of point/purpose to it. Out of interest then, what reward would you be willing to put a lot of effort into achieving? Happiness? Nirvana? Being present? Peace? No more thought? I don't know what nirvana is. I don't care about 'being present' and 'no more thought'. I'm not sure about happiness and peace, I'd say that safety is much more important to me... and really the source of feeling safe to me is money, if I have a lot of money then I feel safe. No, the reason I bother with this is that I'm very competetive/neurotic, to me the world is a jungle. So if someone says something that questions me then I feel threatened and must have what they have or at least I must crush them. I tried to intellectually crush this enlightenment thing but I figured that they really do have something that I don't have and so I must have it, but I can't, because I don't even know what it is that they have and they won't tell me in a way that it makes any sense. And so the circle is now closed and you can see why I hate this whole nonduality business, all it did to me is it increased my neurosis. I've always hated myself and now I hate myself even more... thanks spiritualteachers.org. I know this sounds f*cked up, but that's how I think, just being honest s'all. I don't understand/believe people who say that they are looking for Truth and Peace and whatnot, I think that's total bs, but hey maybe they do, who knows, but I'd bet that the majority of seekers are really seeking for similar reasons as mine. (That is, of course, unless they actually did have an awakening experience, in that case the situation would be entirely different.) question, I don't know whether to laugh or cry... ;D ....... ........ sdp
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 25, 2012 10:55:49 GMT -5
If its a lottery, so what? You won't know you've got the winning ticket until there's no one there to claim it. LOL. In fact, it is a lottery, so get over it! Take a look, and see if what you're really doing is indulging in suckiness because it provides some subtle form of pleasure. "Oh woe is me. Poor Question. I might have the winning ticket, but I'm not going to do anything to find out, so I'll just sit here and sulk." This is very funny. You should have met Ramesh because he had just the right words for a suffering seeker. He said, Given a choice between a million bucks and getting enlightened, take the million bucks; at least you'll have something." You keep saying that you don;t want to make an effort until you're guaranteed to get the reward. Okay, I'll guarantee that if you get so busy and non-reflective that you forget yourself completely, you'll get the ultimate reward, and you won't be there to receive it. I can guarantee that 100%. The fundamental "problem" is that you think there is someone who needs something, and there isn't. Money to feel safe? What a laugh, you silly curmudgeon! You own the whole universe and you don't know it. There was this guy one who prayed every week to God for him to win the lottery. God never spoke, he never won the lottery. He prayed for 20 years......didn't win....... Finally, God spoke to him......the sky opened up and a clear voice said: "Try buying a ticket!"
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 25, 2012 11:07:02 GMT -5
lol @ Questions list ... and riddle solvings ... no wonder you're stuck in purgatory .. hehe lol @ freejoy .... dude, seriously? are you just playing dumb, or is it not an act? you seem sincere about your search ... but it seems like you're 'flailing aimlessly' though. Stop being a coward like everyone else. Don't make the mistake of going through the first 'woo woo' door, and stopping there. Knowing what to do is simple really ... doing it however .... incredibly difficult. Annihilation ... or bust. But very, very few succeed, why? Because they're cowards essentially. The price is too steep. Do yourself a favor ... leave this forum, and don't ever come back. No one here has a clue. They are incapable of pointing you where you want to go. The only one who had even the foggiest idea about what's going on got banned, that should tell you all you need to know about this place. I still get a good laugh about "advanced forum" ... LOL ... yeah, in the same way arithmetic class is 'advanced' over pre-school numbers class. lol. Go, go, go far away. lol. go find a geometry class, then algebra, calculus, trig .... lol Just for the record, I'm the one who told tath about Dzogchen...... ..... ... ... ... ;D ... ... ... ... ... ... ... sdp
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Post by question on Feb 25, 2012 11:22:27 GMT -5
"Oh woe is me. Poor Question. I might have the winning ticket, but I'm not going to do anything to find out, so I'll just sit here and sulk." This is very funny. [...] You keep saying that you don;t want to make an effort until you're guaranteed to get the reward. Okay, I'll guarantee that if you get so busy and non-reflective that you forget yourself completely, you'll get the ultimate reward, and you won't be there to receive it. I can guarantee that 100%. The fundamental "problem" is that you think there is someone who needs something, and there isn't. Are you kidding me? I'm saying that I've made more than enough effort to find out. I even know that there is no self/volition/separation and the pebble still hasn't hit the fence. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 25, 2012 11:32:01 GMT -5
I don;t know what I'm talking about in your case? I totally agree. I simply throw it all out there to see if anything will hit a nerve. You've gotta feel sucky at the moment, and I gotta keep throwing stuff in your direction. Helluva situation. ;D
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Post by Beingist on Feb 25, 2012 11:44:05 GMT -5
"Oh woe is me. Poor Question. I might have the winning ticket, but I'm not going to do anything to find out, so I'll just sit here and sulk." This is very funny. [...] You keep saying that you don;t want to make an effort until you're guaranteed to get the reward. Okay, I'll guarantee that if you get so busy and non-reflective that you forget yourself completely, you'll get the ultimate reward, and you won't be there to receive it. I can guarantee that 100%. The fundamental "problem" is that you think there is someone who needs something, and there isn't. Are you kidding me? I'm saying that I've made more than enough effort to find out. I even know that there is no self/volition/separation and the pebble still hasn't hit the fence. "Earlier I was sure of so many things, now I am sure of nothing. But I feel that I have lost nothing by not knowing, because all my knowledge was false. My not knowing was in itself knowledge of the fact that all knowledge is ignorance, that 'I do not know' is the only true statement the mind can make." -Niz
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Post by question on Feb 25, 2012 11:49:45 GMT -5
I don;t know what I'm talking about in your case? I totally agree. I simply throw it all out there to see if anything will hit a nerve. You've gotta feel sucky at the moment, and I gotta keep throwing stuff in your direction. Helluva situation. ;D I'm surprised that my post has caused such an uproar. Pilgrim is confused by his emotions, doesn't know whether he should laugh or cry, Popee went bananas and even deleted his account. It even has got you all riled up, you of all people. Andrew asked me a question and I gave an honest answer. I know that my answer isn't pretty and doesn't look like one that you read in the literature and that it may even invite ridicule. I'm not talking to my father or to my boss, this is an anonymous forum, I can allow myself to be honest, can't I?
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