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Post by enigma on Aug 12, 2013 11:06:04 GMT -5
I once had the realization that everything is prefect. It took a long time to understand. It's prefect whether I turn right or left. The universe seems to compensate. So it's kind of irrelevant. well yeah ok, I'm in the "it's all perfect" camp also ... until mind says otherwise. lol if a left turn was required to catch your plane on time, and you missed your flight, then sometimes mind has a fit .. but yeah, its still *perfect* whether you're driving home, or on that flight to Vegas. ;-) I think the universe moves the airport.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 11:24:27 GMT -5
For me this happened years after my exposure to the QM chegg but decades before my self-inquiry woo-woo and the faux causal elements that I'd ascribe to it were philosophical discussions that I had with my wife -- her speaking from a combination of a liberal arts background and Christianity light, me speaking as an agnostic material monist. The fact that my father, at ground, never took any conceptual structure that seriously probably didn't hurt either. He was rather unique as a father as he spent most of his adolescence in the Catholic seminary, was a very devote Catholic until about the age of 16 or 17 when he suddenly left and renounced all religion and would never say why. I'd state this as a realization as to the fundamental nature of abstraction and truth -- that there is no such thing as an absolute truth and the gaping chasm between an abstraction and what are abstracted are obvious points for the mind if it simply looks. </end, tale told on a bridge> Seems to me that there are two realizations that change the game: 1) The chimera of personal identity 2) The availability, in any instant, of the feeling of our felt sense of oneness with being. What the thinking/feeling mind takes as the sense "I am". Seems to me, that after these, mind doesn't inform and is of no use in informing but has the further potential to be informed. Thanks .. first of all My dad was a curious fellow, apparently he was a extremely bad alcoholic (until I was about 10, so I don't really have many memories myself) but he must have had a 'realization' one day (or rock bottom, perhaps) but he told me of a vision he had of the devil laughing at him, and it 'snapped' something in him, and he never had another drink after that day. He then spent his final years reading all of the Edgar Cayce books ( ) and he got into meditating. I remember him thinking I should begin meditation, and he even took both of us to one of those Transcendental Meditation Seminars (my secret word was .. "Om" .. lol) but being 16, and a stoner (obviously, hehe) I blew that nonsense off.
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Post by enigma on Aug 12, 2013 11:28:11 GMT -5
In my experience, being present with the presence of "death" offers the simplest self evident realization, which encompasses all other realizations. The transcendent super-realization seems to be a popular idea these days.
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Post by silver on Aug 12, 2013 11:35:35 GMT -5
For me this happened years after my exposure to the QM chegg but decades before my self-inquiry woo-woo and the faux causal elements that I'd ascribe to it were philosophical discussions that I had with my wife -- her speaking from a combination of a liberal arts background and Christianity light, me speaking as an agnostic material monist. The fact that my father, at ground, never took any conceptual structure that seriously probably didn't hurt either. He was rather unique as a father as he spent most of his adolescence in the Catholic seminary, was a very devote Catholic until about the age of 16 or 17 when he suddenly left and renounced all religion and would never say why. I'd state this as a realization as to the fundamental nature of abstraction and truth -- that there is no such thing as an absolute truth and the gaping chasm between an abstraction and what are abstracted are obvious points for the mind if it simply looks. </end, tale told on a bridge> Seems to me that there are two realizations that change the game: 1) The chimera of personal identity 2) The availability, in any instant, of the feeling of our felt sense of oneness with being. What the thinking/feeling mind takes as the sense "I am". Seems to me, that after these, mind doesn't inform and is of no use in informing but has the further potential to be informed. Thanks .. first of all My dad was a curious fellow, apparently he was a extremely bad alcoholic (until I was about 10, so I don't really have many memories myself) but he must have had a 'realization' one day (or rock bottom, perhaps) but he told me of a vision he had of the devil laughing at him, and it 'snapped' something in him, and he never had another drink after that day. He then spent his final years reading all of the Edgar Cayce books ( ) and he got into meditating. I remember him thinking I should begin meditation, and he even took both of us to one of those Transcendental Meditation Seminars (my secret word was .. "Om" .. lol) but being 16, and a stoner (obviously, hehe) I blew that nonsense off. Nice share, farmer.
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Post by serpentqueen on Aug 12, 2013 11:36:44 GMT -5
In my experience, being present with the presence of "death" offers the simplest self evident realization, which encompasses all other realizations. Hmm, I debate that. It seems to me that when faced with death many many people construct elaborate stories about souls and reincarnation and heaven ... all in an attempt to reassure themselves that "self"/identity carries on after death. Well, unless you are an atheist. Then you are more apt to do things in this life -- having children, gifting money so a building can be named in your honor, winning the Nobel prize, etc -- to leave a legacy with your name attached to it forever and ever (or until the sun goes supernova). When faced with death, it seems to me that self gets ever more creative in its defenses.
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Post by serpentqueen on Aug 12, 2013 11:40:42 GMT -5
I once had the realization that everything is prefect. It took a long time to understand. It's prefect whether I turn right or left. The universe seems to compensate. So it's kind of irrelevant. well yeah ok, I'm in the "it's all perfect" camp also ... until mind says otherwise. lol if a left turn was required to catch your plane on time, and you missed your flight, then sometimes mind has a fit .. but yeah, its still *perfect* whether you're driving home, or on that flight to Vegas. ;-) Yeah, I had the same realization as freejoy... and it works pretty good, as it's a way of practicing acceptance. But then self has this way of attaching meaning to whatever happens, like "I missed my flight, and then the plane crash landed -- see, universe cares about ME." Then this leads to all sorts of magical thinking.... which can get pretty ridiculous (or did, for me).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 11:49:19 GMT -5
In my experience, being present with the presence of "death" offers the simplest self evident realization, which encompasses all other realizations. The transcendent super-realization seems to be a popular idea these days. The transcendent super realizations aren't as simple.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 11:55:17 GMT -5
In my experience, being present with the presence of "death" offers the simplest self evident realization, which encompasses all other realizations. Hmm, I debate that. It seems to me that when faced with death many many people construct elaborate stories about souls and reincarnation and heaven ... all in an attempt to reassure themselves that "self"/identity carries on after death. Well, unless you are an atheist. Then you are more apt to do things in this life -- having children, gifting money so a building can be named in your honor, winning the Nobel prize, etc -- to leave a legacy with your name attached to it forever and ever (or until the sun goes supernova). When faced with death, it seems to me that self gets ever more creative in its defenses. I'm not pointing at elaborate-creative stories. But I am saying that there is something simple there for those who fully engage with the experience. Unfortunately, most are too busy, or so they think.
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Post by laughter on Aug 12, 2013 12:52:27 GMT -5
For me this happened years after my exposure to the QM chegg but decades before my self-inquiry woo-woo and the faux causal elements that I'd ascribe to it were philosophical discussions that I had with my wife -- her speaking from a combination of a liberal arts background and Christianity light, me speaking as an agnostic material monist. The fact that my father, at ground, never took any conceptual structure that seriously probably didn't hurt either. He was rather unique as a father as he spent most of his adolescence in the Catholic seminary, was a very devote Catholic until about the age of 16 or 17 when he suddenly left and renounced all religion and would never say why. I'd state this as a realization as to the fundamental nature of abstraction and truth -- that there is no such thing as an absolute truth and the gaping chasm between an abstraction and what are abstracted are obvious points for the mind if it simply looks. </end, tale told on a bridge> Seems to me that there are two realizations that change the game: 1) The chimera of personal identity 2) The availability, in any instant, of the feeling of our felt sense of oneness with being. What the thinking/feeling mind takes as the sense "I am". Seems to me, that after these, mind doesn't inform and is of no use in informing but has the further potential to be informed. Thanks .. first of all My dad was a curious fellow, apparently he was a extremely bad alcoholic (until I was about 10, so I don't really have many memories myself) but he must have had a 'realization' one day (or rock bottom, perhaps) but he told me of a vision he had of the devil laughing at him, and it 'snapped' something in him, and he never had another drink after that day. He then spent his final years reading all of the Edgar Cayce books ( ) and he got into meditating. I remember him thinking I should begin meditation, and he even took both of us to one of those Transcendental Meditation Seminars (my secret word was .. "Om" .. lol) but being 16, and a stoner (obviously, hehe) I blew that nonsense off. I imagine that farmer sr. and laughter sr. would have had some good and mostly silent times watching football on a Sunday afternoon in their later years ...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 13:17:08 GMT -5
In my experience, being present with the presence of "death" offers the simplest self evident realization, which encompasses all other realizations. Hmm, I debate that. It seems to me that when faced with death many many people construct elaborate stories about souls and reincarnation and heaven ... all in an attempt to reassure themselves that "self"/identity carries on after death. Well, unless you are an atheist. Then you are more apt to do things in this life -- having children, gifting money so a building can be named in your honor, winning the Nobel prize, etc -- to leave a legacy with your name attached to it forever and ever (or until the sun goes supernova). When faced with death, it seems to me that self gets ever more creative in its defenses. ok, since I'm in a gabby mood today .. hehe when the decision was made to unhook my sis from the respirator, everyone piled into the room to 'send her off' or whatever. and some background .. she was gay, and so she had a fairly large circle of friends and whatnot, and many of them are 'wacky Christians' hehe. and by the way, my brother and I (who are the last two standing of a fairly large family) were like .. "wtf, who are all these people?, um .. hey guys, maybe we would like this to be a private family affair" (thought it, didn't say it) anyhoo, so they take that contraption out of her throat (which is pretty gnarly btw) and everyone was expecting her to expire fairly quickly, so they started speaking in tongues, or whatever, "go to the light, Momma's waiting for you, take her Jesus" yada yada. ok, so I'm pretty zen like throughout the process, and I'm just observing the spectacle from a detached perspective. and about five minutes into it, after it looks like she was gonna hang on for a while .. I grabbed her hand , said "later sister", and out the door I went...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:18:49 GMT -5
Hmm, I debate that. It seems to me that when faced with death many many people construct elaborate stories about souls and reincarnation and heaven ... all in an attempt to reassure themselves that "self"/identity carries on after death. Well, unless you are an atheist. Then you are more apt to do things in this life -- having children, gifting money so a building can be named in your honor, winning the Nobel prize, etc -- to leave a legacy with your name attached to it forever and ever (or until the sun goes supernova). When faced with death, it seems to me that self gets ever more creative in its defenses. ok, since I'm in a gabby mood today .. hehe when the decision was made to unhook my sis from the respirator, everyone piled into the room to 'send her off' or whatever. and some background .. she was gay, and so she had a fairly large circle of friends and whatnot, and many of them are 'wacky Christians' hehe. and by the way, my brother and I (who are the last two standing of a fairly large family) were like .. "wtf, who are all these people?, um .. hey guys, maybe we would like this to be a private family affair" (thought it, didn't say it) anyhoo, so they take that contraption out of her throat (which is pretty gnarly btw) and everyone was expecting her to expire fairly quickly, so they started speaking in tongues, or whatever, "go to the light, Momma's waiting for you, take her Jesus" yada yada. ok, so I'm pretty zen like throughout the process, and I'm just observing the spectacle from a detached perspective. and about five minutes into it, after it looks like she was gonna hang on for a while .. I grabbed her hand , said "later sister", and out the door I went... I'm not certain a detached perspective is equal to/same as Detachment. A detached perspective is more like changing one's mind about something. Detachment is a whole other ballgame.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:30:13 GMT -5
Hmm, I debate that. It seems to me that when faced with death many many people construct elaborate stories about souls and reincarnation and heaven ... all in an attempt to reassure themselves that "self"/identity carries on after death. Well, unless you are an atheist. Then you are more apt to do things in this life -- having children, gifting money so a building can be named in your honor, winning the Nobel prize, etc -- to leave a legacy with your name attached to it forever and ever (or until the sun goes supernova). When faced with death, it seems to me that self gets ever more creative in its defenses. ok, since I'm in a gabby mood today .. hehe when the decision was made to unhook my sis from the respirator, everyone piled into the room to 'send her off' or whatever. and some background .. she was gay, and so she had a fairly large circle of friends and whatnot, and many of them are 'wacky Christians' hehe. and by the way, my brother and I (who are the last two standing of a fairly large family) were like .. "wtf, who are all these people?, um .. hey guys, maybe we would like this to be a private family affair" (thought it, didn't say it) anyhoo, so they take that contraption out of her throat (which is pretty gnarly btw) and everyone was expecting her to expire fairly quickly, so they started speaking in tongues, or whatever, "go to the light, Momma's waiting for you, take her Jesus" yada yada. ok, so I'm pretty zen like throughout the process, and I'm just observing the spectacle from a detached perspective. and about five minutes into it, after it looks like she was gonna hang on for a while .. I grabbed her hand , said "later sister", and out the door I went... Went through a similar deal with my Brother, no folks speaking in tongues though....there was this nurse who was very helpful, bit a little strange too. She apparently was a "specialist" in sitting with families while folks passed....like I said, she was very helpful to my Mom, but there was something a little strange about her, in that she seemed to have a kind of fetish or addiction to being with people when they passed, she would say things like "he's getting close now, it won't be too much longer", she said it very compassionately, and was very respectful, almost reverent, but there was also a light in her eyes that lit up more the closer he got to passing that I didn't understand until it was all over. Kevin seemed to struggle with passing until I whispered in his ear not to be afraid, that we would all be okay, and that it was okay to let go....a kind of palpable peace came over him and the whole room, and he passed...It was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life actually....and I can totally understand the nurse's "fetish" with sitting with folks when they are passing. I don't have any belief in death, I think its a figment of the imagination....I haven't "mourned" a death in many years. Didn't seem like my brother died while sitting there holding his hand, it was pretty obvious that it was a peaceful beautiful passing. Later, being a "spiritual" kind of guy, I spoke with that nurse at length. She said she had sat with over a thousand people when they passed, and that the palpable peace in the room was common, but just as common is a kind of pain or struggle in the room, and that when the room was filled with bad energy it was usually with someone who was struggling against dying and who had not let go of regrets and such.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:33:12 GMT -5
oneness is a minding no seperation is a minding Essential Nature is not a minding Haha...that was a minding also
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:38:09 GMT -5
I'm not certain a detached perspective is equal to/same as Detachment. A detached perspective is more like changing one's mind about something. Detachment is a whole other ballgame.can you describe how you understand it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:43:18 GMT -5
oneness is a minding no seperation is a minding Essential Nature is not a minding Haha...that was a minding also haha, yeah. I wondered if you would look through this old thread. ;-) I thought this was the thread where I wrote my goodbye meltdown post after you got banned, but I didn't see it anywhere. Its funny how perspectives change so dramatically, essentially in short amounts of time.
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