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Post by question on Nov 25, 2011 15:44:03 GMT -5
Tomas,
no offense, but if I didn't know the main work of Mr. Rose and solely based on his 'contemplations' on sexuality I would say that he is an idiot. I don't understand why you continue to be so befuddled by his ponderings.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality. Do you expect Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed to confirm this before you can accept this simple fact?
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Post by klaus on Nov 25, 2011 16:10:54 GMT -5
Tomas, no offense, but if I didn't know the main work of Mr. Rose and solely based on his 'contemplations' on sexuality I would say that he is an idiot. I don't understand why you continue to be so befuddled by his ponderings. There is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality. Do you expect Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed to confirm this before you can accept this simple fact? Ditto
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Nov 25, 2011 22:53:26 GMT -5
"There is nothing wrong with homosexuality"... your use of the word "wrong" indicates a dualistic point of view, of "right" versus "wrong". There is NO right and NO wrong in reality - only what is.
You can call Rose an "idiot", but you're doing it on a website devoted to his teachings, so I'm not so sure who is the idiot. He'd probably find it hilarious, you calling him an idiot! Rose has laid down one of the most accessible paths to the Truth - you have no idea what an idiot is if you're calling him one.
Rose formed his opinoins of homosexuals after counseling hundreds of them, who were often dissatisfied, unhappy, depressed, suicidal. Obviously not all gays are suicidal. However, if you've lived the life that I've lived, as a bisexual, lived in San Francisco for 5 years, led intimacy workshops where several thousand gay and bisexual men attended, hooked up with several dozen men on Craigslist, you'd have an understanding of my experience:
there's no light at the end (or even the middle) of the gay tunnel; there's lots of STDs; many thousands of men have died from the deadly effects of HIV contacted thru gay sex; most all gay men have low self esteem and confidence; the vast majority of gay men will never be satisfied, because they're trying to get it from another man instead of within themselves, and they have never worked thru their fear of women.
Still of course, there's nothing wrong with being gay. In my experience however, it's a sad shadowy unhealthy life, fear based, turned away from the light. Have you never felt the polarity of the other gender?
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Post by klaus on Nov 25, 2011 23:15:23 GMT -5
"There is nothing wrong with homosexuality"... your use of the word "wrong" indicates a dualistic point of view, of "right" versus "wrong". There is NO right and NO wrong in reality - only what is. You can call Rose an "idiot", but you're doing it on a website devoted to his teachings, so I'm not so sure who is the idiot. He'd probably find it hilarious, you calling him an idiot! Rose has laid down one of the most accessible paths to the Truth - you have no idea what an idiot is if you're calling him one. Rose formed his opinoins of homosexuals after counseling hundreds of them, who were often dissatisfied, unhappy, depressed, suicidal. Obviously not all gays are suicidal. However, if you've lived the life that I've lived, as a bisexual, lived in San Francisco for 5 years, led intimacy workshops where several thousand gay and bisexual men attended, hooked up with several dozen men on Craigslist, you'd have an understanding of my experience: there's no light at the end (or even the middle) of the gay tunnel; there's lots of STDs; many thousands of men have died from the deadly effects of HIV contacted thru gay sex; most all gay men have low self esteem and confidence; the vast majority of gay men will never be satisfied, because they're trying to get it from another man instead of within themselves, and they have never worked thru their fear of women. Still of course, there's nothing wrong with being gay. In my experience however, it's a sad shadowy unhealthy life, fear based, turned away from the light. Have you never felt the polarity of the other gender? tomas, Whatever experiences you've had are yours and yours alone. Hetrosexual, Bi-sexual or Homosexual all suffer in one way or another. So what's your point other then your attachment to your experiences.
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Post by question on Nov 26, 2011 10:14:17 GMT -5
Tomas,
it is clear in my first post but I'll say it again: I'm calling Mr. Rose an idiot based solely on his bizarre remarks on homosexuality. I respect his main work. This forum is not devoted to the teachings of Richard Rose.
I am sad that your experience is so difficult. We live in an extremely ignorant and outright vicious culture when it comes to homosexuality. I suspect that this is the main reason why life is so difficult for gays.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Nov 26, 2011 16:05:40 GMT -5
Klaus & Question, thank you for your responses to my post. They made me read more of "The Sex Connection", to understand Rose's theory. It's not popular, but it is the Truth to me. I've struggled, read all all the books, done sexuality workshops, dialoged with spiritual teachers, seen shrinks, none of which pointed out the path of my sexuality, save Rose.
Rose says "the very first sexual experience that a person has in their life sets the stage for the development of their predominant sexual association". Any unwanted sexual behavior starts in the mind. A change in behavior follows a change in thinking, similar to any transformation process.
That is the tool to get beneath my years of unfulfilling sex with men. The spiritual component of this, is letting go of attachments or behavior patterns is the path toward self realization. I'm posting this here, because it's the only place I know of to dialog on this subject.
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Post by nobody on Nov 27, 2011 12:52:18 GMT -5
there's no light at the end (or even the middle) of the gay tunnel; there's lots of STDs; many thousands of men have died from the deadly effects of HIV contacted thru gay sex; most all gay men have low self esteem and confidence; the vast majority of gay men will never be satisfied, because they're trying to get it from another man instead of within themselves, and they have never worked thru their fear of women. Still of course, there's nothing wrong with being gay. In my experience however, it's a sad shadowy unhealthy life, fear based, turned away from the light. Have you never felt the polarity of the other gender? This all sounds pretty good to me. What you are noticing is the futility of happiness and the lie that anything or anyone else will make you complete. This IS how attachments get dropped. Although, I think you've already done your work in this area. You've already noticed what I've described above, so what you think you need Rose for? Direct experience is what counts, which you clearly have. So, drop it and move on. Further, as Jed would say.
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Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2011 3:23:07 GMT -5
Tomas, Ive been reading your thoughts with some interest. I used to work in Spain, and the percentage of gay men working for the company I worked for (and in the tourism industry in general) was relatively high. I shared a house with a lad who was openly gay and we were good friends. Even though he was openly gay, he actually probably had more success with women than I did! We used to joke that one day he was going to come out of the closet and declare himself 'straight'. He was obviously quite confused and would feel guilty after having slept with women and the next day would always commit to being gay again. From my perspective, it was really quite funny, but I guess it was less funny for him. What I also noticed is that he was far from alone in his confusion. Im not going to start hypothesizing as to whether our sexuality is genetic or conditioned, but my feeling is that whatever our preferences are that arise, somehow we have to make peace with ourselves. Part of our difficulty as a society is that we feel the need to put labels on everything and put people in boxes, when maybe it is our work to break free from these boxes and make peace with who we are in relation to our preferences that arise.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Nov 29, 2011 21:55:28 GMT -5
Andrew, I read your post with interest & cannot refute anything you say. You didn't say too much about yourself, so I am curious why this subject caught your interest? Has this been an issue for you? The reason it's been an issue for me, is that having gone back and forth between men and women, of course everyone saying "Oh, you've got the best of both worlds, you have twice the potential partners as anyone gay or straight" belies the reality of it: many short term relationships, a sexual preoccupation, always looking/never finding.
Another aspect of this phenomena, is the spiritual side. Rose thought that sex was the basis of most of our problems... that if we could abstain from it, and be celibate, we could have much greater satisfaction, achievement, and self realization. Sex has a way or trumping everything else in our lives.
So I sensed in your reply (as much as I appreciate it), a willingness to go with the flow, and not take the harder, steeper path, which leads to the mountain top.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2011 15:42:14 GMT -5
a MILLION reasons to be here
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Dec 10, 2011 12:59:38 GMT -5
Thank you ma.dprophet for the utube.... I watched the "Million reasons to be here", & felt sadness, shame, and hope. Also after 6 weeks of celibacy, I called my favorite gay phone sex line and had a hot chat with a sweet young man. Reflecting on all Rose said about the "gay bug", and my own experience thru the years, I know it's futile to deny what makes my dick hard. White knuckling, abstention, or celibacy serves no one. I agree with Rose that it can take your mind off sex, but it can also put me in my head about spirituality, you know, what do I have to be to be enlightened, now that I'm not having sex? The other thing Rose taught was awareness & observation. I can only observe this self, this body, and what it likes, its desires, in the space between the thoughts and images that play in the mind.
Do anyone know who is doing the censoring on this site? I notice when I type words of an explicit sexual nature, they are censored & replaced with words with less energy. eg in the above paragraph, a slang term for the male organ was changed to "thingy". Is there some RC Priest editing this? I've only noticed this with words of a sexual nature. This is evidence of a sexual shadow, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2011 20:22:25 GMT -5
i haven't read much of Rose. Just know him via After the Absolute. I liked it and would read more but it's kind of dense for me. I liked his curmudgeonly way. I don't really know anything he said about sex stuff more than what I'm getting from you here. If he's just advising to be aware and observe sex as addiction, that seems like good advice. But if he's singling out a type of sexual preference being more addictive than another preference, well that seems like he's just reflecting lots of cultural baggage. The vid above was a sample of that. That kid brought tears to my eyes -- what a work of art.
the censoring on the site is automatic. it's supposed to be family friendly, whatever that means. if you just misspell your words of choice you can workaround that sh!t.
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Post by klaus on Dec 10, 2011 21:00:54 GMT -5
tomas,
I agree that there should be no censorship on this Board. It's exeremely silly.
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Post by bazoleo on Dec 16, 2011 6:06:33 GMT -5
Thank you ma.dprophet for the utube.... I watched the "Million reasons to be here", & felt sadness, shame, and hope. Also after 6 weeks of celibacy, I called my favorite gay phone sex line and had a hot chat with a sweet young man. Reflecting on all Rose said about the "gay bug", and my own experience thru the years, I know it's futile to deny what makes my thingy hard. White knuckling, abstention, or celibacy serves no one. I agree with Rose that it can take your mind off sex, but it can also put me in my head about spirituality, you know, what do I have to be to be enlightened, now that I'm not having sex? The other thing Rose taught was awareness & observation. I can only observe this self, this body, and what it likes, its desires, in the space between the thoughts and images that play in the mind. Do anyone know who is doing the censoring on this site? I notice when I type words of an explicit sexual nature, they are censored & replaced with words with less energy. eg in the above paragraph, a slang term for the male organ was changed to "thingy". Is there some RC Priest editing this? I've only noticed this with words of a sexual nature. This is evidence of a sexual shadow, in my opinion. tomas; Just joined this forum. I knew Rose and worked with him for many years. He was consistent and validated his ideas through direct experience. Many of his early students were homosexual. He treated everybody the same. I've read a number of your posts and it strikes me that you are on the Path, and it is a difficult one. From personal experience I can only say don't give up on celibacy as it is truly the key to mental freedom and a reservoir of energy that will accelerate your progress. And, as you already have found, there are very few people who will share your enthusiasm for any views on sexuality that are not politically correct. But you can't let that discourage you. It only matters that you get up one more time than you fall, in regards to breaking celibacy. Rose used to say that after a while, when celibate, your 'power' comes upon you, and you can only be tempted by yourself. Also, that you have to lose something to really know the value of it, whether it's a nickel or your celibacy.
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Post by tathagata on Dec 16, 2011 11:05:18 GMT -5
If you are going to practice celibacy and make use of your sexual energy in your spiritual development I highly recommend practicing continuous "root lock".... This is simply flexing the muscles of the perineum and Base of the sexual organ much like you were trying to hold in going to the bathroom, pull the belly button slightly inward toward the spine at the same time..... This will help channel the sexual energy in a productive manner and "the power of celibacy" as you quoted Rose will come on you much faster... Eventually with enough celibacy you would start to do this too, but you can do it now instead of waiting, also, no masterbation, no sexual release at all is best on this particular path. Lightly hold the root lock in all your waking hours, it can be helpful to tie a string around your wrist or finger to remind you in the beggining until it becomes habitual.
And finally... If it gets too tough, use fasting, it curbs the sexual appetite.... Look up the Muslims method of fasting that they use in Ramadan, it works great for this without weakening the body as much as a complete fast that lasts several days at a time.
The fasting method recommended above is to not take in any food or drink from the time the sun comes up until after the sun sets each day... It's hard for the first few days, but becomes much easier by the fourth day.... Try to curb your irritableness of the first few days by not letting it vent on anyone hehehe
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