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Post by popee2 on Oct 13, 2011 11:43:37 GMT -5
I don't know max, I don't really get the analogies. Pedophilia is a perverse obsession of sex with children, and I don't think it has much to do with the homo or hetero bias. And masturbation likewise, is just an inability to control ones own sexual urges.
The societal implications are quite different of course, but both are rooted in the "mind syndrome" which most people are afflicted with. Some peoples illnesses are worse than others, ranging from "fully asleep" to "fully awake".
But yes, the judgments of society affect people, and there are a multitude of prejudices out there. When someone feels one of those prejudices peering into them, they often "dwell" on the situation, which exacerbates the mind syndrome problem even further.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 13, 2011 13:01:43 GMT -5
"It's funny because a person who has both homosexual and heterosexual urges is probably the best to decide which is more harmful".. well thank you Madprophet for this piece!
Certainly in a context of celibacy, straight, bi, or gay doesn't matter. I was surprised at how vehement Rose was against same sex relations. My intuition is that there was a psychological shadow operating here. Sexuality has been a rich and deep vein for inquiry for me. Rose seemed to admonish it, rather than investigate it.
One other point, in my work in Diamond Heart, I've come to sense that enlightenment is awareness - not some final state to aim for, with all the associated difficulties of "trying" for enlightenment. It's conscious awareness, that we can practice anytime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 13:08:54 GMT -5
hey, no practice required! try something without awareness, that'd be a trick.
BTW, welcome!
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 13, 2011 18:36:55 GMT -5
this thread is a delightful example of how the mind works
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 19, 2011 12:51:22 GMT -5
I'd appreciate any feedback on this nonpath path.... I've been reading the articles on this website, and others: Richard Rose, Listening Attention, TAT, Searching Within, and Mystic Missel. I live in Sonoma County, north of the SF Bay Area. I have not been able to find any groups locally, devoted to this path (there was one nearby but the email address is invalid). I am resonating with these teachings, and have had a couple of great dreams: one of an undiscovered room above my bedroom, and another of using a sewer snake to clean out tubes inside my body.
Are there any online dialog groups to explore these teachings? Are teachers only available at the quarterly weekends in Pennsylvania? I am sensing that in this path, I plot my own way, with guidance only from within. I am grateful for any feedback.
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Post by acewall on Oct 19, 2011 20:48:21 GMT -5
I'd appreciate any feedback on this nonpath path.... I've been reading the articles on this website, and others: Richard Rose, Listening Attention, TAT, Searching Within, and Mystic Missel. I live in Sonoma County, north of the SF Bay Area. I have not been able to find any groups locally, devoted to this path (there was one nearby but the email address is invalid). I am resonating with these teachings, and have had a couple of great dreams: one of an undiscovered room above my bedroom, and another of using a sewer snake to clean out tubes inside my body. Are there any online dialog groups to explore these teachings? Are teachers only available at the quarterly weekends in Pennsylvania? I am sensing that in this path, I plot my own way, with guidance only from within. I am grateful for any feedback. fabulous dreamings. Each element of any dream can be internally dialoqued with. If you cannot decipher your own dreams then automattic writing or internally dialoquing with individual elements would be worth your while investigating. Yes, youre going by the GURU within yourself, via intuitive thought, pulling you back Home. A Path with a Heart!
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Post by popee2 on Oct 20, 2011 8:22:31 GMT -5
Hi tomas. I can't really answer any of your questions, but I can resonate with them. When I first found TAT from some web search, it felt like a gathering I belonged at. I firmly believe that truth recognizes truth when it sees it, and that intuition is our best guide. And, essentially, it will always be a solitary journey. If you're interested, they posted videos from their last few retreats. www.selfinquiry.org/recordings.html
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dave
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Post by dave on Oct 20, 2011 13:19:30 GMT -5
Although this board was started by 'students' of Richard Rose, I would take his 'teachings' with a grain of salt (like anybody else's).
Reading about Rose drew me further into this 'self-inquiry' thingy, but the more I read by - and about - Rose, the less impressed I became.
In one of his personal letters to his friend he off-handedly used the term 'n*gger' and, if I remember correctly, married a woman quite a bit younger than himself.
And since it was the topic of sex that initiated this post - according to Gold's book, it was catching his first wife/girlfriend in a lesbian tryst that sent him off the edge (into nirvana, according to him)...
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Post by endless on Oct 23, 2011 4:44:07 GMT -5
I would not say that he admonished it. He told people to get it under control. And definately he did not say that we should not look into it, rather he said that sexuality is one of our best tools to see our "robot-ness", the automatic functioning of us.
If you judge him just according to his personality and whatever traits he had you are going into the wrong direction. You should judge him by his teaching, first by looking into it. It might be that his teaching is very worthvile even though you dont like the person. Judging the teachings by the teachings is closer to truth than judging by the teacher.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 23, 2011 15:24:15 GMT -5
I've been reading Richard Rose, plus some of the insightful material from the Mystic Missal, TAT, and the Listening Attention websites. What draws me to this material is its focus on the inner. I've been a seeker for most of my life, in Buddhism, the 4th Way, and Diamond Heart/Almass most recently. The central dilemma of my life has been my bisexuality, characterized by going back and forth between men and women. I'm single, without any children - I sense, because of my bisexuality. I tried being gay, and lived in San Francisco for 5 years in the 90s, even leading "Intimacy" groups... yet I was unable to find what I was looking for: an enduring male intimate friendship. I've dated tons of women, got married, went into Reparative Therapy, which teaches that gay identity is all about a week relationship with your father. Abstained for 7 years. Off and on years of gay phone sex. I'm drawn to men, because sex is more available, yet it misses the more sacred intimacy with a woman. In Diamond Heart, I looked at my early patterning with a cold distant mother. I resonate with Michael Hall's blog where he references the loneliness of the ego, its doomed efforts to find a connection, and Ego Deconstruction. Richard Rose's declarations against gay sex hit me in the face, echoing my own guilt and shame around my sexuality. Last night, I posted an ad on Craigslist, and made plans to meet tonight, for a bj. I've been feeling it all day today, moving through the positive and negative feelings. I've been celibate for 3 weeks, while reading Shawn's book on "The Celibate Seeker" - a great accompaniment to Craigslist! I know the only thing I can do is feel, sense, and listen within. Posting this has made the process more conscious. However I have difficulty letting go of the desire for sex and it's easy fulfillment. I welcome any feedback.
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Post by elduderino on Oct 24, 2011 12:35:19 GMT -5
I may be seriously wrong and burn in Hell for Eternity but if I were you I would do the following: 1. Have any sex I want but try not to lose my head. Stay cool. Don't let desire completely overwhelm me and turn me into a beast or a pervert. 2. Visit justonelook.org and do the damn thing until I am fine. Or not. I would still do it.
P.S. Sex with men will never make you a monster by itself. But your guilt and shame can do it.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 24, 2011 20:31:54 GMT -5
Thank you elduderino, I checked out the website, and did the d**m thing. I'm sensing it's akin to Harding's "having no head" process. This is a nondual way, you know, just "be in the now!" Other "tricks" include being the observer, noticing the conversation going on in the head, labeling thoughts (oh there I am, thinking about sex again), resting in silence, which is akin to the justonelook exercise of getting out of your head, by focusing on the breath. Some of these things are rather simple, like "Oh just focus on the breath" which I have noticed can appeal to a young person, yet not work as well for an older person, who has had years of egoic layers built up around a particular pattern, especially things of an addictive nature such as sexual acting out, alcohol or drug use. In those cases, I think the Ego Deconstruction ideas on Michael Hall's blog are helpful: becoming aware of the automatic programming, losing interest in it, and identify and deconstruct automatic assumptions and beliefs.
I liked popee2's comparison of my sexual acting out to his addiction to nicotine, but his post has disappeared. It made me realize that to change patterened behavior, you have to go against the ego, and transform the self. The voice of the conscience often speaks against the ego, as in my case asking for more than sexual acting out.
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Post by elduderino on Oct 25, 2011 2:23:35 GMT -5
"Some of these things are rather simple, like "Oh just focus on the breath" which I have noticed can appeal to a young person, yet not work as well for an older person..."
What do you mean when you say "work"? How is a technique supposed to work for you (sorry if my grammar is wrong)?
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Post by popee2 on Oct 25, 2011 10:19:06 GMT -5
Sorry about the disappearing post, I'm currently struggling with talking about spirituality. Its funny how these little issues keep popping up, and won't go away until they've been fully resolved. And once resolved, its like they weren't ever even there to begin with. Something which seemed so important at the time ... poof .. gone.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Oct 25, 2011 11:43:06 GMT -5
elduderino, re: your post ' "Some of these things are rather simple, like "Oh just focus on the breath" which I have noticed can appeal to a young person, yet not work as well for an older person..."What do you mean when you say "work"? How is a technique supposed to work for you (sorry if my grammar is wrong)?'
As used in Gurdjieff groups I was in, "work" refers to a conscious effort to go against ingrained patterns of the ego. There's probably other definitions for it. For example, instead of listening to the radio when I drive, and zoning out on rock music or the news, I often turn the radio off, to observe my thoughts, or focus on the passing landscape. I like to drink wine, just a few small glasses "to take the edge off"... yet now I have "wine free nights"where I'm more apt to read spiritual books, visit spirit websites... and am much less likely to cruise Craigslist. Meditation of course could be considered a technique to work on yourself, by disengaging from the normal chatter, or in the case of Mr Rose's book on Meditation, to revisit childhood experiences that have a particular hold on you.
Ah popee2 of the disappearing post... are you trying to not be spiritual? Can you say more?
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