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Post by kate on Jun 10, 2011 6:22:40 GMT -5
I have been noticing lately the role that expectations play in my suffering.
I would like to be able to allow other people to have their expectations of me and react however they want when I don't meet them. Instead I feel guilty, I beat myself up and I get angry and defensive.
I'm noticing how much mental energy this takes up. I'm quite shocked to realise how much guilt and fretting goes on. And then I get angry for "being made" to feel bad.
I see how this imprisons both me and the other person involved. I also see that this is about my false sense of self being threatened.
Likewise, I have problems with my own expectations of other people. I find it difficult to let go of my expectations of people who play major roles in my life - my partner, my parents, my bosses etc. I have great difficulty allowing people to be.
I know this idea that people need to be a certain way is about propping up my false sense of self - it's so flimsy it needs constant reinforcement from those around me (but they have to play their part right, damn it!)
What makes me most sad about all this is that it leaves no room for love. There's no way to really connect. And the more I see all this clearly the lonelier it feels.
It doesn't seem like I can just drop all these expectations. They're too subtle, too ingrained, to intimately connected to my false sense of self.
So am I stuck with this until I truly realise that there isn't an identity that needs propping up?
Do I just have to live out this way of being and all the suffering it will no doubt continue to bring until that suffering finally breaks me?
Or is there another way to look at this?
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Post by zendancer on Jun 10, 2011 6:59:57 GMT -5
I have been noticing lately the role that expectations play in my suffering. I would like to be able to allow other people to have their expectations of me and react however they want when I don't meet them. Instead I feel guilty, I beat myself up and I get angry and defensive. I'm noticing how much mental energy this takes up. I'm quite shocked to realise how much guilt and fretting goes on. And then I get angry for "being made" to feel bad. I see how this imprisons both me and the other person involved. I also see that this is about my false sense of self being threatened. Likewise, I have problems with my own expectations of other people. I find it difficult to let go of my expectations of people who play major roles in my life - my partner, my parents, my bosses etc. I have great difficulty allowing people to be. I know this idea that people need to be a certain way is about propping up my false sense of self - it's so flimsy it needs constant reinforcement from those around me (but they have to play their part right, d**n it!) What makes me most sad about all this is that it leaves no room for love. There's no way to really connect. And the more I see all this clearly the lonelier it feels. It doesn't seem like I can just drop all these expectations. They're too subtle, too ingrained, to intimately connected to my false sense of self. So am I stuck with this until I truly realise that there isn't an identity that needs propping up? Do I just have to live out this way of being and all the suffering it will no doubt continue to bring until that suffering finally breaks me? Or is there another way to look at this? Kate: All of these insights are great and generally true for most people. Do you have to live that way until you totally wake up? No, but for most people, getting free of expectations is a gradual process because it involves some ingrained habits. You may need to set aside some time to be alone and get more deeply in touch with who you really are. You may need to go on some silent weekend retreats (with or without others). You may need to stop indulging in fantasies about how other people should be. You may need to become more involved in the dynamic activity of life, so that you have less time for reflection, judging, etc. You may need to change the way you respond to people in order to change your habitual thought patterns. Here are some thoughts to keep in mind: 1. Everyone is always doing the best he/she can. 2. Everyone is always doing what he/she has to do. 3. People respond to concrete actions. Imagine that someone is always late for meetings with you. This makes you angry. What would happen if, the next time that person were late, you simply left, and did something else? I suspect that that person would quickly learn (after this happened once or twice) that if she is late, you won't be there. IOW, you can change the way other people relate to you by the way you relate to them. Read Byron Katie's book, "A Thousand Names of Joy," or "Loving What Is." She provides a lot of insight into this issue. Cheers.
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Post by enigma on Jun 10, 2011 11:12:40 GMT -5
Just noticing the function of expectations will change the way you handle them. If you see it creates struggle and 'leaves no room for love' (it's true) then you'll begin to lose interest in expectations. Be willing to disappoint people. Be like a child who doesn't know the 'right way' to act.
I disappoint peeps all the time. They come to me with a finely tuned persona designed to get me to respond in a certain way, and they don't get what they expect. I don't have any control over their response to their own expectations, and it can get very odd because I'm not analyzing their game either (unless it's really interesting. Hehe.).
On the other hand, what I do is 'come empty', meaning I'm empty of my own expectations, and for some folks this immediately collapses the game they're playing, almost like they're tired of playing the game too and they can finally relax and breathe. This is when that 'space' opens up for love to move freely. Basically, you're giving others permission to be themselves by being yourself with them. Some will embrace you, some will reject you. Don't have any expectations about that. HA!
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astarxy
Junior Member
Live and let live
Posts: 54
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Post by astarxy on Jun 10, 2011 11:48:40 GMT -5
Just noticing the function of expectations will change the way you handle them. If you see it creates struggle and 'leaves no room for love' (it's true) then you'll begin to lose interest in expectations. Be willing to disappoint people. Be like a child who doesn't know the 'right way' to act. I disappoint peeps all the time. They come to me with a finely tuned persona designed to get me to respond in a certain way, and they don't get what they expect. I don't have any control over their response to their own expectations, and it can get very odd because I'm not analyzing their game either (unless it's really interesting. Hehe.). On the other hand, what I do is 'come empty', meaning I'm empty of my own expectations, and for some folks this immediately collapses the game they're playing, almost like they're tired of playing the game too and they can finally relax and breathe. This is when that 'space' opens up for love to move freely. Basically, you're giving others permission to be themselves by being yourself with them. Some will embrace you, some will reject you. Don't have any expectations about that. HA! excellent reply! pretty much what's happening to me too.. who's meant to stay in your experience (life), will stay.. it's fascinating seeing people relief! we are one stuck civilization.. and you know what - living this way makes your life pretty stable, not much ups and downs.. just as much as you haven't 'mastered' yet.. next time you will.. simply by noticing, as beautifully put by Enigma.. love to all.
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Post by kate on Jun 10, 2011 19:39:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the great responses guys ZD - I think I need to do all of those things you said I may need to do! Thanks for the book recommendations too. I have heard plenty of people talk about Byron Katie before but had never read any of her stuff. I read a few excerpts online last night and they were great and made a lot of sense to me, so I'll definitely hunt down one of the books. Thanks! Engima - I can see that I've always been more concerned with not disappointing people than receiving them open and empty. There have, however, been times when I "accidentally" found myself coming empty to a meeting/exchange with someone and I have seen that space for love open up and the other person step out of their game. I can also see how trying not to disappoint people is about an attempt to control and so many of my interactions are like this. As long as I'm operating from an agenda of needing people to always like me there can't be love. That's the bit that really gets me - how many relationships, supposedly close, are based on some sort of pseudo love. It's love that is an idea, not real love. This is the absolute LAST thing I want. Guess I'm going to have get okay with being a disappointment! Hehehe. Sounds quite liberating, really. astarxy - I hope the noticing does change things. I'm sure it has in the past but I don't think I ever notice the noticing changing things, so it's hard to know!
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Post by enigma on Jun 10, 2011 20:25:29 GMT -5
"That's the bit that really gets me - how many relationships, supposedly close, are based on some sort of pseudo love. It's love that is an idea, not real love. This is the absolute LAST thing I want."
Zakly. I call it conceptual, dualistic love, which sounds odd because love is sposed to be all feeling or sumthin, but even 'falling in love' is about need and attachment, with it's attending expectations of fulfillment, which are eventually disappointed. We sorta kinda know what actual Love is, because it's what we're being when we aren't trying to be something else. We turn it into a dualistic reflection of Love and call it love/hate or love/fear.
Love is in the space between self and other when that space is left empty. Hencely, Love is not personal. Also, 'other' need not be a person, only a relationship. We form relationships with everything we perceive, and when we fill that space with concepts, Love is obscured. Attending the actual means non-abidance in mind, which in my language means 'come empty to everyone and everything in your life'. What fills the emptiness between self and other, is Love, which is why everything is seen to have a depth of vibrancy and aliveness. Love is alive!
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Post by kate on Jun 10, 2011 20:45:38 GMT -5
Wow, so many things are connecting up for me right now. I think I'm starting to really understand why there's nothing I can do and how it's all already here and I just need to step aside. Something about the love perspective has made it more simple somehow. I think it's a combination of a huge motivational factor and really seeing how I get in love's way all the time. All the time! Why would I do this? Madness.
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Post by kate on Jun 10, 2011 20:47:02 GMT -5
And, wow, it really, really doesn't have to be this way.
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Post by enigma on Jun 11, 2011 0:14:19 GMT -5
Wow, so many things are connecting up for me right now. I think I'm starting to really understand why there's nothing I can do and how it's all already here and I just need to step aside. Something about the love perspective has made it more simple somehow. I think it's a combination of a huge motivational factor and really seeing how I get in love's way all the time. All the time! Why would I do this? Madness. Very nice. Yes, the world is mad. Somewhere along the line I come to believe that if I can paint a picture of you in my mind then i can know who you are and you will be predictable and you cannot hurt me and i can control how my relationship with you unfolds. I form expectations of what you can do to fulfill my needs and i try to fix the things about you that threaten me. It's happens slowly, like boiling a frog, and though I notice that my needs are not being fulfilled and harmony is disturbed, and you look flat and two-dimensional, I assume it's your fault rather than the consequence of failing to even see you as you are, in deference to the image I have of you in my head, which I assume to be you. I used to say, when you were a child, you saw a robin for the first time, and you haven't seen one since.
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astarxy
Junior Member
Live and let live
Posts: 54
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Post by astarxy on Jun 11, 2011 2:40:19 GMT -5
astarxy - I hope the noticing does change things. I'm sure it has in the past but I don't think I ever notice the noticing changing things, so it's hard to know! to notice means you're consciously living your life, your experience.. not the other way round.. that you're not a zombie.. your have options, always, consciously, by listening to your inner self, you make the right decision.. always. don't react, be still. it takes care of itself. Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behaviors. Keep your behaviors positive because your behaviors become your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny.
~Gandhi
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Post by kate on Jun 12, 2011 1:29:26 GMT -5
I come to believe that if I can paint a picture of you in my mind then i can know who you are and you will be predictable and you cannot hurt me and i can control how my relationship with you unfolds. I form expectations of what you can do to fulfill my needs and i try to fix the things about you that threaten me. And it's so futile because that which feels threatened always feels threatened no matter what I do or what sort of control I believe I have. The axe is always looming. It's very true about people becoming flat and two-dimensional. And the longer I've spent sketching out that picture of who I think this person is the harder it is to see through it to the truth of that person. The more quickly I default to relating from a place of judgement and defensiveness. I don't mean by this that the other person would say I was being judgmental and defensive, I just notice it in myself in a whole lot of subtle ways. I forget that despite what is going on on the surface, everyone is operating from innocence. Sometimes it leaps out at me very clearly but not often.
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Post by kate on Jun 12, 2011 1:35:22 GMT -5
It sure does
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Post by enigma on Jun 12, 2011 2:12:48 GMT -5
I come to believe that if I can paint a picture of you in my mind then i can know who you are and you will be predictable and you cannot hurt me and i can control how my relationship with you unfolds. I form expectations of what you can do to fulfill my needs and i try to fix the things about you that threaten me. And it's so futile because that which feels threatened always feels threatened no matter what I do or what sort of control I believe I have. The axe is always looming. It's very true about people becoming flat and two-dimensional. And the longer I've spent sketching out that picture of who I think this person is the harder it is to see through it to the truth of that person. The more quickly I default to relating from a place of judgement and defensiveness. I don't mean by this that the other person would say I was being judgmental and defensive, I just notice it in myself in a whole lot of subtle ways. I forget that despite what is going on on the surface, everyone is operating from innocence. Sometimes it leaps out at me very clearly but not often. And of course the process is self sabotaging since the other feels unloved, unaccepted and misunderstood as well as feeling the weight of our expectations. It's no wonder relationships don't work out as planned. The planning ensures they won't.
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Post by kate on Jun 12, 2011 2:30:04 GMT -5
Yeah. It's this very issue that kicked everything off for me. There are all these ideas about how relationships are meant to work, expectations and demands people say it is reasonable to make, some of them are collectively agreed or insisted upon by large numbers of people, and yet when I look around me so few people seem at peace in their relationships. Very little love flowing between people.
So where did these ideas come from and why were they bought into? Surely we're not just making them up! I then realised that if ideas about relationships and how people should be could be false then all ideas about everything could be false. Of course something has to be true, and so here I am back where I started. Hehe.
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astarxy
Junior Member
Live and let live
Posts: 54
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Post by astarxy on Jun 12, 2011 6:03:37 GMT -5
Of course something has to be true, and so here I am back where I started. Hehe. Your inner feeling, You as 'noone' is true.. each one of us sees the world from his/her perception.. therefore we have 7 billion percepcions.. which one is real? be well..
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