|
Post by enigma on May 10, 2011 0:02:12 GMT -5
Ah, the nonduality switch. That's a bit of a stickler, that one.
|
|
maxie
Junior Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by maxie on May 10, 2011 11:29:53 GMT -5
My impression is that this was a ruse. The motive- pure pettiness of the most egoic kind. The mention of mod's names, and though the content was flattering on one hand, the other hand was a slap to those that relish being in charge. Just my impression. That, and Er has a history of this. It's why NFY was created.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 10, 2011 13:06:20 GMT -5
My impression is that this was a ruse. The motive- pure pettiness of the most egoic kind. The mention of mod's names, and though the content was flattering on one hand, the other hand was a slap to those that relish being in charge. Just my impression. That, and Er has a history of this. It's why NFY was created. Do you mind posting the forum and the discussion group that your talking about... Otherwise we might think your just here to, well you know, do some stirring...
|
|
maxie
Junior Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by maxie on May 10, 2011 15:05:57 GMT -5
My impression is that this was a ruse. The motive- pure pettiness of the most egoic kind. The mention of mod's names, and though the content was flattering on one hand, the other hand was a slap to those that relish being in charge. Just my impression. That, and Er has a history of this. It's why NFY was created. Do you mind posting the forum and the discussion group that your talking about... Otherwise we might think your just here to, well you know, do some stirring... I don't mind, if Enigma doesn't. (sent ya a pm) I read a post of his there that gave me the impression. Just sharing some light on it, if what I saw was true. I don't stir- I shake.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 10, 2011 15:25:37 GMT -5
Howdie Maxie!
|
|
|
Post by smokey on May 10, 2011 17:10:04 GMT -5
While watching someone 'walk the talk' can be inspiring and encouraging, this shouldn't be mistaken for some kind of path to self realization. A good argument could be made that only the individual's experiences with himself have any true motivating power, and only one's own clarity can be transformative.
As such, it can be useful to stand shoulder to shoulder, and explore the landscape together, being on the lookout for bear traps and poking them with a stick rather than a toe, and walking up to obstacles and giving them a swift kick to see if they're really as solid as they appear. In this, the attention is kept on the landscape of one's own mind and not on the process of acquiring or rejecting knowledge on the basis of whether or not your fellow traveler actually knows anything about his landscape, which may not resemble yours at all. To hang around one who has lost or is losing his ego softens one's own ego.
It is the false ego that instills in the mind the belief it can devour itself -- or worse, that it has devoured itself.
What's left is usually the most irksome part....
The mouth.
| |
|
|
|
Post by smokey on May 10, 2011 19:38:04 GMT -5
I don't know if I got lost somewhere in your post or what? Are you asking this for real? If so then I can try to give an answer that might work. This non-duality stuff IS useful in physically, emotionally and mentally stressful situations!! When you no longer believe that anything should be different than it is, there are no more physical,emotional, or stressful situations. There is only what arises at that moment... Then you won't mind if we send the Nondualism Police around to confirm your claim..
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 10, 2011 21:11:38 GMT -5
While watching someone 'walk the talk' can be inspiring and encouraging, this shouldn't be mistaken for some kind of path to self realization. A good argument could be made that only the individual's experiences with himself have any true motivating power, and only one's own clarity can be transformative.
As such, it can be useful to stand shoulder to shoulder, and explore the landscape together, being on the lookout for bear traps and poking them with a stick rather than a toe, and walking up to obstacles and giving them a swift kick to see if they're really as solid as they appear. In this, the attention is kept on the landscape of one's own mind and not on the process of acquiring or rejecting knowledge on the basis of whether or not your fellow traveler actually knows anything about his landscape, which may not resemble yours at all. To hang around one who has lost or is losing his ego softens one's own ego.
It is the false ego that instills in the mind the belief it can devour itself -- or worse, that it has devoured itself.
What's left is usually the most irksome part....
The mouth.
| |
Well, but we aren't talking about ego putting an end to ego. You aren't an ego. You are the one who is aware of ego, and can be aware of precisely what's going on because you are awareness itself. You can be aware of the falsity of ego, and this would be the end of ego. To position yourself as an illusion and then tie your illusory hands by making the illusion real, is the means of holding the illusion in place.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 11, 2011 12:11:14 GMT -5
I think that the biggest misconception to awakening from the dream, is that the ego somehow takes a hike, never to be seen again.
Actually the Ego doesn't go anywhere, it's still going to rear it's ugly head every chance it gets.
The dream doesn't go away but the mind that see's it, now knows it is a dream and isn't bothered by the reactive minds attempts to make it real.
It's that realness of the world where the egoic mind functions.
When the realness or cause is gone, the effect being the ego also dissipates.
It's all relative to ones belief in the dream.
But to have that kind of vigilance in the awareness to keep the persistence of the dream from forming a reality, can only be accomplished by sitting on a mountain or in a cave.
Not very practical if you ask me...lol
The best thing is to help your brothers also discover the dream, that way they won't be constantly pushing that illusion back at you, IMO...
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 11, 2011 13:54:10 GMT -5
I think that the biggest misconception to awakening from the dream, is that the ego somehow takes a hike, never to be seen again. Actually the Ego doesn't go anywhere, it's still going to rear it's ugly head every chance it gets. The dream doesn't go away but the mind that see's it, now knows it is a dream and isn't bothered by the reactive minds attempts to make it real. It's that realness of the world where the egoic mind functions. When the realness or cause is gone, the effect being the ego also dissipates. It's all relative to ones belief in the dream. But to have that kind of vigilance in the awareness to keep the persistence of the dream from forming a reality, can only be accomplished by sitting on a mountain or in a cave. Not very practical if you ask me...lol The best thing is to help your brothers also discover the dream, that way they won't be constantly pushing that illusion back at you, IMO... Ego isn't some kind of entity that's trying to make something real in spite of your realization that it isn't real. It's just your belief that it's real expressing as a 'real' person. It's your belief in the reality of ego that makes it seem and act real. There isn't something that has to be vigilant about that rascally ego entity to keep it from rearing it's ugly head. That whole story is ego rearing it's ugly head. Hehe. It serves the purpose of making ego untouchable. After all, who can afford to sit in a mountain cave and stand guard over the critter for the rest of the life of the body? Better to leave it alone and try to fix other people's egos. There isn't somebody else (like me, now) pushing the illusion back at you. It's actually you exploring your own illusions about that.
|
|
|
Post by souley on May 11, 2011 15:22:25 GMT -5
The dream doesn't go away but the mind that see's it, now knows it is a dream and isn't bothered by the reactive minds attempts to make it real. .... But to have that kind of vigilance in the awareness to keep the persistence of the dream from forming a reality, can only be accomplished by sitting on a mountain or in a cave. When concepts are seen through, as you mention in the first sentence, why would any vigilance be needed? There seem to be plenty of enlightened people who never meditated or anything like that, who just for some reason woke up to the illusion of concepts, and just continued living that realization.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 12, 2011 8:55:02 GMT -5
I think that the biggest misconception to awakening from the dream, is that the ego somehow takes a hike, never to be seen again. Actually the Ego doesn't go anywhere, it's still going to rear it's ugly head every chance it gets. The dream doesn't go away but the mind that see's it, now knows it is a dream and isn't bothered by the reactive minds attempts to make it real. It's that realness of the world where the egoic mind functions. When the realness or cause is gone, the effect being the ego also dissipates. It's all relative to ones belief in the dream. But to have that kind of vigilance in the awareness to keep the persistence of the dream from forming a reality, can only be accomplished by sitting on a mountain or in a cave. Not very practical if you ask me...lol The best thing is to help your brothers also discover the dream, that way they won't be constantly pushing that illusion back at you, IMO... Ego isn't some kind of entity that's trying to make something real in spite of your realization that it isn't real. It's just your belief that it's real expressing as a 'real' person. It's your belief in the reality of ego that makes it seem and act real. There isn't something that has to be vigilant about that rascally ego entity to keep it from rearing it's ugly head. That whole story is ego rearing it's ugly head. Hehe. It serves the purpose of making ego untouchable. After all, who can afford to sit in a mountain cave and stand guard over the critter for the rest of the life of the body? Better to leave it alone and try to fix other people's egos. There isn't somebody else (like me, now) pushing the illusion back at you. It's actually you exploring your own illusions about that. That's the thing, I don't believe and that's also the egoic mind, saying, you know what, the illusion doesn't magically disappear when a person wakes up from the dream. There is nothing I don't have, that an awakened person does. Standing together, side by side, both our bodies see the same sunset. The awakened person see's God, whilst I already know I'm God and I see a beautiful sunset. The world is the world, meaningless to the body that see's and hears it. What gives meaning is the mind, the real seer and listener. We have a choice, to see the world through the mind of God, or the Eternal or the mind of the Ego. To either mind, it's a beautiful sunset.
|
|
|
Post by onehandclapping on May 12, 2011 12:09:17 GMT -5
Yes smokey send them after me! hahahaha. I'll pretend they exist too! hahahaha.
You guys are splitting hairs it seems to this ego. Egos trying to point at the same thing to egos that will never understand what you are pointing at. A rose is a rose no matter what your mind projects upon it.
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 12, 2011 12:32:02 GMT -5
The dream doesn't go away but the mind that see's it, now knows it is a dream and isn't bothered by the reactive minds attempts to make it real. .... But to have that kind of vigilance in the awareness to keep the persistence of the dream from forming a reality, can only be accomplished by sitting on a mountain or in a cave. When concepts are seen through, as you mention in the first sentence, why would any vigilance be needed? There seem to be plenty of enlightened people who never meditated or anything like that, who just for some reason woke up to the illusion of concepts, and just continued living that realization. The problem is and it's the same for everyone, is that we really don't know anything, especially me, I love not-knowing... What we discuss as 'knowledge' is most often unproven, unverifiable and collected by us from peeps who have collected it from other peeps. Most knowledge is passed down as a means to function in this world. It's a kind of initiation into the reality, that Zen calls the dream or maya. If you stop for a moment and survey all that you can take in with your awareness, your reality is made up of just that, whatever you can see, hear, feel, taste... The rest is all memory, there are billions of peeps, there is a universe, there are objects outside of this current perception, etc, etc... There are 2 realities, one reality, that you directly perceive through awareness and the reporting of the body. And one that is a world of thought and memory, also perceived by the awareness. So when I talk about awakened peeps I am aware that my words lack power, because, I've never encountered an awakened person. I just talk about this stuff, because I like to, but to me, it's all contributing to the dream of a separate reality. When I talk about vigilance, it really means being aware of both realities, although there is really only one...
|
|
|
Post by Portto on May 12, 2011 16:35:38 GMT -5
How are the squirrels doing, Enigma? Do they have any comments on nonduality?
|
|