waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on May 12, 2011 17:51:23 GMT -5
SQuirrels just be squirrels. No words, no interpretation. Wabbits the same.
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Post by enigma on May 12, 2011 18:44:15 GMT -5
How are the squirrels doing, Enigma? Do they have any comments on nonduality? They're much dryer now that the rain has stopped. One of them had an interesting comment today (His name is Snarky, BTW) that it's possible to be 'looking' and thinking at the same time. He explained that thinking only seems effortful because of the mistaken identification with mind whereby attention is typically pulled inside the thinking, and it actually unfolds spontaneously from the 'looking', as a conceptual translation of what is being looked at. Hencely, one can remain perpetually in 'observer mode' even while thinking. I thought that was a pretty insightful comment on Snarky's part. ;D
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Post by enigma on May 12, 2011 18:49:30 GMT -5
SQuirrels just be squirrels. No words, no interpretation. Wabbits the same. They said it's okay, they're not offended by that. ;D
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waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on May 12, 2011 20:03:37 GMT -5
LOL, Enigma. You made me laugh. Thanks. We have an apparent fuzzy animal that apparently climbs down the apparent tree in our apparent yard to eat the apparent bird seed. Apparently also a bit Snarky when the I, that is not I sneaks up on him (or her or the universal it) without notice. Just sayin'. They grow em the size of house cats here in Nor Cal.
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Post by sharon on May 12, 2011 21:48:22 GMT -5
"Don't let your mind bother you It's all love of Self Relax into recognition"
~ sayeth the squirrel.
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Post by Portto on May 12, 2011 21:56:58 GMT -5
How are the squirrels doing, Enigma? Do they have any comments on nonduality? They're much dryer now that the rain has stopped. One of them had an interesting comment today (His name is Snarky, BTW) that it's possible to be 'looking' and thinking at the same time. He explained that thinking only seems effortful because of the mistaken identification with mind whereby attention is typically pulled inside the thinking, and it actually unfolds spontaneously from the 'looking', as a conceptual translation of what is being looked at. Hencely, one can remain perpetually in 'observer mode' even while thinking. I thought that was a pretty insightful comment on Snarky's part. ;D I’m certainly glad the squirrels are dryer. We had quite a bit of rain here too. I tried some sparrow satsangs but they never let me get to the point of opening my mouth. Snarky seems a perceptive guy. We certainly ‘look’ and think at the same time since this is how we know we are thinking. Also, there’s no isolated entity that’s churning out thoughts, so the one looking is not making any effort in that regard (if the ball is on top of the hill, it’s going to roll down without any effort).
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Post by Portto on May 12, 2011 22:01:03 GMT -5
"Don't let your mind bother you It's all love of Self Relax into recognition" ~ sayeth the squirrel. Oh boy, those squirrels are really wise lately!
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Post by enigma on May 13, 2011 1:12:10 GMT -5
They're much dryer now that the rain has stopped. One of them had an interesting comment today (His name is Snarky, BTW) that it's possible to be 'looking' and thinking at the same time. He explained that thinking only seems effortful because of the mistaken identification with mind whereby attention is typically pulled inside the thinking, and it actually unfolds spontaneously from the 'looking', as a conceptual translation of what is being looked at. Hencely, one can remain perpetually in 'observer mode' even while thinking. I thought that was a pretty insightful comment on Snarky's part. ;D I’m certainly glad the squirrels are dryer. We had quite a bit of rain here too. I tried some sparrow satsangs but they never let me get to the point of opening my mouth. Yeah, I find that sparrows are pretty flighty. Zakly. And the quality of the thinking from 'outside' the thought stream is much better than it is from within it.
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Post by sharon on May 13, 2011 2:53:10 GMT -5
The squirrels have always been wise ~ the wising up to this is what's happened lately.
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Post by Portto on May 13, 2011 8:04:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I find that sparrows are pretty flighty. Also, they never really stop chirping. Maybe I should try moose satsang. Indeed. Furthermore, thinking from the 'inside' can be very scary.
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waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on May 13, 2011 8:30:35 GMT -5
I think slug satsangs might work out well. Slow enough you can follow them around and teach them stuff. You could get quite a turnout in the pacific northwest, though they're a little reluctant to put money in the basket.
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Post by therealfake on May 13, 2011 8:50:08 GMT -5
Just don't bring any salt, your satsang might dissolve right before your eyes...
;D
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Post by enigma on May 13, 2011 10:21:26 GMT -5
I think slug satsangs might work out well. Slow enough you can follow them around and teach them stuff. You could get quite a turnout in the pacific northwest, though they're a little reluctant to put money in the basket. We find that the slugs aren't interested in the satsangs so much. Seems they've already found that 'stillness'.
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waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on May 13, 2011 11:59:51 GMT -5
:-) Lovely. I'll remember. No salt and try not to bother them too much.
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2011 14:55:44 GMT -5
I have no problems with what has been posted on this thread, but I’d like to add a few observations that may be pertinent. Experiences of oneness come in all sizes and shapes; some people get a fleeting glimpse whereas other people are completely catapulted out of the mind for periods of time ranging from several hours to several years. IMO any experience of oneness (especially for someone who has never had such an experience) is valuable if for no other reason than it reveals a totally different world than the one that most people are familiar with. Anyone who has had a significant experience of oneness realizes that consensual reality is a mirage, and this often encourages people to search for the absolute.
Many years ago, when my mind spun out of control and became an intolerable burden filled with incessant talk, I began to crave silence. I started meditating because I read in a book that meditation could help deliver some peace of mind, and I was desperate for anything that could slow down the non-stop monologue in my head that was starting to drive me crazy. I started practicing a breath-awareness exercise for one hour each day. After about two weeks, I noticed that I was noticing new things in the world around me. Suspecting that the meditative exercise might be the factor changing what I noticed, I added a second hour of meditation in the afternoon during which I walked down country roads simply looking and listening. This caused more noticing of things forgotten since childhood, and I soon added a third hour of meditation at night before bedtime. I had no clue what I was doing, and many times I felt rather stupid to be spending three hours every day watching my breath, or looking and listening, but I continued. One night, after several months of practice, I sat down to pursue a variation of the breath awareness exercise, and I fell into a state of deep samadhi. Selfhood vanished and only pure awareness remained. After exiting that state, I was dumbfounded. I didn’t know what had happened, but I knew that it had been an extraordinary experience. The following night I fell into that state again, and on the next night yet again. It was the deepest peace I had ever experienced, but “I” wasn’t there experiencing it. There was no “me” present during those periods of samadhi. On the following morning, I was in a friend’s office when a telephone rang. The sound of the ringing telephone precipitated a mind-boggling kensho experience that lasted about twenty minutes. During that experience I could not remember my own name and was filled with laughter, delirious ecstasy, freedom, and profound peace.
This initial kensho experience did not end my thinking, but it triggered several realizations, changed my entire perception of the world, and caused me to live in an extremely altered state of being for two days--a state that was clearly what Jesus had been pointing to with his phrase “the kingdom of God.” I had absolutely no self-interest; I only cared about the welfare of other people, and I attempted to give away everything I owned. On the third day, however, the body/mind’s strange connection to reality began to disintegrate and “I” came back to the world I had previously known, a world which I now refer to as “consensual reality.” It was a dead and dismal world compared to the world in which I had lived for the two previous days.
The kensho experience I had was so powerful that when it ended, all I wanted to do was get it back! I had lived in the kingdom of God, and I no longer had any interest in the kingdom of Man. Ha ha. This is the point where the search for truth began in earnest. Until then, the search had been strictly intellectual, but now I knew that something totally different than what I had known in the past was possible. What I didn’t know then was that there had never been a “me” in the equation. It would take another fifteen years before the search finally came to an end when the fictional-me was realized for what it was.
I have described this initial kensho experience in moderate detail because it was so life-changing, and because it implies that other similar experiences can be even deeper and more long-lasting. Tolle, for example, was significantly changed by his experience, and, according to his account, it essentially freed him from the mind. Helen Courtois (“An Experience of Enlightenment) had a single experience that freed her for many years. The Buddha, apparently, was freed by his experience under the Bodhi tree. Nisargadatta and Ramana are other people to whom similar things happened. Because this has happened to many people, I think it is important to put these experiences into perspective.
All of these people are probably on one far end of the experience spectrum; their experiences were big and totally life-changing. In many cases these people ceased to abide in the mind and realized that their past sense of selfhood had been a fiction. On the other end of the spectrum are people who have had small glimpses of oneness, but the only accompanying realization has been that the world of consensual reality is a mirage.
Experiences, for many people, can be a big stumbling block (I should know) because the people who have them usually think, “I” had that experience. They do not realize that the experiences were radically impersonal and that no one was involved. They logically conclude that if one experience could be so powerful, surely another such experience will get rid of selfhood permanently. IOW, the structures of thought supporting a sense of selfhood are still operating, and the person assumes that there is something he/she can do to get rid of himself/herself. This is the classic dilemma of the mystic, and the literature is full of people, like Plotinus, who felt that when certain conditions are met, momentary entries into heavenly bliss can occur. Plotinus, as a case in point, had many kensho experiences, but never attained freedom from selfhood.
The inclination of most people is to continue exercising the same habits of mind after an experience of non-duality as before, and this is the classic mistake. No one can do anything to eradicate selfhood using conventional habits of mind! Something else is required. What is it? Attending the actual and interacting with the actual must replace attending the thinker and thoughts as the primary operator. Selfhood is lost through inattention to self!
Remember the mountain climber who occasionally gets into “the zone” by totally focusing upon what is happening in the moment? Well, this is how anyone gets into the zone. The more often one gets into the zone, the easier it becomes to remain in the zone. After one disappears into the zone often enough or long enough, a realization occurs that can be summarized as, “Oh, there is only THIS, and who I AM is THIS! Who I thought I was was only a story composed of thoughts.” This is the realization that ends the spiritual search and leads to lasting freedom.
So, if someone tells me that he/she has had a big experience, I will say, “Hallulujah! That’s wonderful, but are you now ready to hear what to do next?” I will then explain much of what we discuss on this forum, and I will offer the following advice:
1. When you find yourself fantasizing, shift attention to what is happening now. Attend the actual. 2. When you find yourself second-guessing yourself, ATA and just do whatever you have to do next. 3. When you find yourself thinking about yourself, shift attention and ATA. 4. When you find yourself judging others, shift attention and ATA. 5. When you find yourself checking on your spiritual “progress,” shift attention and ATA. 6. Take time to walk in the woods or smell the roses. 7. When someone criticizes you, and you start to feel defensive, shift attention and ATA. 8. When someone praises you, and you start to glow with pride, shift attention and ATA. 9. If you don’t know what to do, ask yourself, “What must I be doing this moment?” Then, do what you know needs to be done. Focus on the present moment rather than the future. If you don’t know what you must be doing this moment, sit down and contemplate the issue until the path becomes again clear. 10. Forget the idea of escaping; simply charge into the truth of this moment. 11. Accept “what is” totally. “What is” rules! And “what is” is what you are. 12. If you are faced with great disappointment or enormous challenges, deal with the situation step by step, and moment by moment, by ATA. 13. ……….and so on.
This is the path to non-abidance in the mind and freedom. In the real world there are no experiences and no realizations. There is only ___________________________, and nothing meaningful can be said about THAT. One can only BE THAT.
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