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Post by kate on May 5, 2011 7:45:12 GMT -5
Bless you Zendancer for all you do here on this board. Here here.
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Post by kate on May 5, 2011 7:49:31 GMT -5
Or should I say, hear hear. Which incidentally is what I wrote to someone in an email just a few days ago and they "corrected" me... perhaps I need to learn to trust my instincts over my business associates
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Post by Peter on May 5, 2011 11:34:28 GMT -5
Im aware that I am trying to ignore the fact that I am excited about getting a second karma point. And didn't you just become a "full member" as well by getting to 100 posts? ;D P
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Post by unveilable on May 5, 2011 17:10:30 GMT -5
I was wondering about that. What happens after you become full member? Do I get a free ipad or somethin? ;D Im aware that I am trying to ignore the fact that I am excited about getting a second karma point. And didn't you just become a "full member" as well by getting to 100 posts? ;D P
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Post by Peter on May 7, 2011 1:35:55 GMT -5
I was wondering about that. What happens after you become full member? Do I get a free ipad or somethin? ;D We tried that, but it turns out that there's nothing to send and no-one to receive it. Happy Posting. P
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Post by zendancer on May 7, 2011 23:21:20 GMT -5
The following is some more real world advice.
1hc wrote, "I'm wrestling with the concept of what I should or shouldn't be doing with my life career wise."
The abstraction behind this statement is, relatively speaking, big. It is like saying, "I've been wondering how to create world peace, or end world hunger, or make everyone love one another." There are three things going on here, (1) thoughts about an imaginary future, (2) thoughts of an idealized (and therefore imaginary) nature, and (3) thoughts about the life of an imaginary entity. What to do? Shift attention to what is happening now, stop reflecting, and just do the next thing that has to be done. If dishes need washing, then wash the dishes. Jesus said, "Take no thought for tomorrow because each day has troubles enough of its own." This is excellent real world advice.
1hc also wrote, "I guess the advice I seek is .....where does one find motivation when there's none to be found?"
"Motivation" is another big abstraction, so forget it. In fact, you are already fully motivated, but the idea of an abstract and imaginary motivation is obscuring the truth. If you get out of bed in the morning, then you are motivated to get out of bed. If you don't get out of bed, then you are motivated to remain in bed. ha ha. Keep it simple, and watch what is actually happening. Stay in the present moment. When you go to the bathroom, you are motivated to go to the bathroom. When you eat, you are motivated to eat. Don't look for bigger (more abstract) motivations than the ones that are already occurring. Don't waste time thinking about a future career; the body knows what to do NOW, and that is all you need to know at this point in time. As you leave the mind behind and get into the body, all kinds of new possibilities and strange events will occur. You cannot make yourself do anything because there is no you directing the show. However, if attention becomes focused upon “what is,” then it won’t matter what direction life takes. Everything that happens will be seen as a mysteriously unfolding adventure, a gift that never stops giving. As Eckhart (or someone) has said, “That’s the reason they call NOW the present. Also remember “the ten-thousand hour” rule and read the bestseller book about this subject. Some famous musician once said, “I practiced for ten-thousand hours and now people call me a genius.”
Zenman wrote that he, too, struggles with the career thing. He wrote, “I think that most people accept that having a meaningful job is rare so they just make the best of whatever career they’re in.” That may be true for most adults, but that’s because they’ve forgotten what childhood was like, and they no longer realize what is possible. They’ve bought into a common story about life called “consensual reality.” Indeed, we live in a complex web of human relationships where we face innumerable expectations and judgments. Ironically, some of the most demanding expectations and judgments are those we place upon ourselves. What would happen if we quit thinking about all that nonsense?
If I were going to give Zenman some advice, I would tell him to focus on the koan, “What should I be doing with my life?” I would tell him to ask that question until it so dominates his perception that it becomes the sole focus of his waking life. Sooner or later he would discover a surprising answer and get a huge laugh. That answer would point him in the right direction—away from the mind and toward the living truth. He already knows the answer to this question, but he either doesn’t know that he knows it or he doesn’t accept the answer because of imagined implications related to that answer.
The woman who called from California was exhausted, and didn't want to do what she knew she had to do. It is much harder to shift attention away from thoughts when the body/mind is exhausted, but when there is something to do, just do it. In this case she knew that she had to perform, and she knew that she was going to perform, but she was mentally resisting the obvious, and simultaneously entertaining thoughts about some other line of work that she might be able to enjoy without feeling pressured or frustrated. Although she might find a more satisfying occupation in the future, the present was all that mattered at that moment. She subsequently accepted what she had to do, and did it. In the process her thoughts ceased and she got “lost” in her performance. This is what happens when we get out of our heads and into our body. The trick is to stay out of our heads long enough to become free of the mind. This takes persistence! Mental habits are very powerful.
During the period when she was most resistant to doing what she knew she had to do she listened to a CD of Tony Parsons. On the tape Tony said that there is no one who can do anything—that there is no hope. This depressed the woman. She said, “If there’s nothing I can do, then it’s hopeless.” I responded, “Remember, everything that Tony said is true, but the opposite of what he said is also true. I am telling you that it is NOT hopeless, and that you can escape the cycle of thoughts that are causing you so much suffering.” I told her to put her attention upon “what is” and keep it there.
Many people start working in occupations that, for them, begin as pure play. Often the play turns into work because all kinds of peripheral issues appear--financial security, judgments of peers, pretension, expectations, ideas of self-worth, etc. It is the peripheral issues and all of the thoughts surrounding those issues that usually cause burnout.
Many people wear “golden handcuffs.” They earn so much money doing something boring or otherwise unsatisfying that they are afraid to quit. Other people burn out because they don’t earn enough money even though they like what they do. The secret is to focus on “what is” and get in touch with the truth. Remember, the body almost always knows what to do. On the few rare occasions when the body does not know, one can treat the issue like a Zen koan by sitting down and contemplating the issue. The answer to every existential question exists within, but it may take a few hours (a few days at the most) for the answer to become obvious. The question to ask is, “What must I be doing this moment?” 99% of the time the answer will be obvious because this question takes away the future, which is the obscuring factor.
To be continued…….
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jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
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Post by jazz on May 8, 2011 9:20:42 GMT -5
Wow. This is golden. Happy to be here now
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Post by lilithz on May 8, 2011 10:37:43 GMT -5
You dont share what INTERESTS you? IF I had a family which I dont, I would not want for my children a souless life like is imposed on most of us by a crutal system where we are made to think we are machines.
As you know the world is under attack, and it is because of this dis-enchantment.
So solutions. I would look for communities that value what IS of vlue. Not money, and silly possession, and trying to seem better than some other sad neighbours etc. But look for communities that love ALl children and want them to learn about nature, growing food which would include Permaculture and Forest gardening, making music and a non monetary system. Now I am not sure where you are, but there now ARE people looking to join others to do this. So this action is NOT looking to government and big daddy for telling them what to do, but for creating communities that value life.
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Post by therealfake on May 8, 2011 18:46:07 GMT -5
Ah..... a soul dance.... "For the sense of being, which in calm hours rises, we know not how, in the soul, is not diverse from things, from space, from light, from time, from man, but one with them and proceedeth obviously from the same source whence their life and being also proceedeth." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self- Reliance Being is Life. Yes, simply 'To Be' is all that we've ever really wanted... The funny thing, is it's always been right here with us, wherever we have gone, silently waiting to be discovered... Another funny thing, is that the first person singular of ' To Be' is ' I AM'...
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Post by zendancer on May 8, 2011 20:13:41 GMT -5
You dont share what INTERESTS you? IF I had a family which I dont, I would not want for my children a souless life like is imposed on most of us by a crutal system where we are made to think we are machines. As you know the world is under attack, and it is because of this dis-enchantment. So solutions. I would look for communities that value what IS of vlue. Not money, and silly possession, and trying to seem better than some other sad neighbours etc. But look for communities that love ALl children and want them to learn about nature, growing food which would include Permaculture and Forest gardening, making music and a non monetary system. Now I am not sure where you are, but there now ARE people looking to join others to do this. So this action is NOT looking to government and big daddy for telling them what to do, but for creating communities that value life. lilithz: Was this post directed to me? If so, then I'll give a quick response. If not, then please ignore this. 1. I am interested in almost everything, and I have too many specific interests to name them all. A short list would include construction, architectural design, oriental landscaping, the stock market, watching wildlife, collecting crinoids, ballroom dancing, mountain climbing, skiing, hiking, economics, business, personal finance, psychology, economics, world affairs, writing, non-duality, travel, people, poetry, movies, music, etc. 2. Do I think that a soulless life is imposed upon anyone by a cruel system that makes them think they are machines? No. 3. Do I think that the world is under attack? No. 4. Am I interested in joining groups of people who want to create alternative communities to the existing culture? No. 5. Do I have any problem with other people who want to create alternative communities? No, but I suspect that wherever they go those people will take their minds with them, and their minds will create the very same kinds of problems that they currently imagine are "out there" needing to be solved.
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waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
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Post by waddicalwabbit on May 8, 2011 22:53:09 GMT -5
Nice posts, ZD. Some of the best I've seen. Thank you. Happy Day.
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Post by onehandclapping on May 9, 2011 2:36:18 GMT -5
You dont share what INTERESTS you? IF I had a family which I dont, I would not want for my children a souless life like is imposed on most of us by a crutal system where we are made to think we are machines. As you know the world is under attack, and it is because of this dis-enchantment. So solutions. I would look for communities that value what IS of vlue. Not money, and silly possession, and trying to seem better than some other sad neighbours etc. But look for communities that love ALl children and want them to learn about nature, growing food which would include Permaculture and Forest gardening, making music and a non monetary system. Now I am not sure where you are, but there now ARE people looking to join others to do this. So this action is NOT looking to government and big daddy for telling them what to do, but for creating communities that value life. No Zendancer, I think it was directed towards me. Although who knows. And by the way, you went pretty easy on this person. Lilithz, I want to first say that my only interest is getting rid of the me that thinks there is any interests to have. As far as a souless life imposed by a cruel system, what do you mean? How can anything be souless? If everything is apart of IT, and nothing is separate........wait do you still believe your thoughts to be true?? Do you still think there is a you in this world?? Maybe we should start there before we dive too far off into the deep end. And as ZD said, if you are packing your mind in your little suitcase to go live with these other "soulful" people in the woods, then we'll save you the trip by letting you know that you will eventually be disappointed by them for living that way will not fulfill you. In fact here's a quick tip. NOTHING will fulfill you except nothingness it's self. And even then it won't fill your mind up. Your mind will still tell you all sorts of things like there are "other people in the world" and that living this way or that way is the right way. So I guess I will end with this question for you Lilithz, what is of value if there is no one here to value it? And for everybody else, thanks for clearing me up on this whole topic. It's funny now reading my initial question and how foggy it was then, and now the answer seems so crystal clear. Hahaha. Seems silly that i even asked such a question. Enigma had it right when he said that once you see it, you can't unsee it. I guess that is what these forums are for??
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Post by lilithz on May 9, 2011 13:59:10 GMT -5
Oh my giddy aunt, you are a bunch of new agers! You are obsessed with your own idealistic dreams of wanting all-the-time bliss. f**k that nature IS under attack. The fact that you DONT know this tells me clearly just how UN enlightened you are which makes this scene here very ironic. Sorry to be harsh, but i mean it. You all need a good sharp kick up the arse!
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Post by enigma on May 9, 2011 14:44:12 GMT -5
Oh my giddy aunt, you are a bunch of new agers! You are obsessed with your own idealistic dreams of wanting all-the-time bliss. f**k that nature IS under attack. The fact that you DONT know this tells me clearly just how UN enlightened you are which makes this scene here very ironic. Sorry to be harsh, but i mean it. You all need a good sharp kick up the arse! This quote from ZD is smack on target. I've been teetering on the edge of commenting on it but it didn't seem to require it until now. Lets just get all new agey for a second and imagine that the idea that something is wrong isn't an objective observation nearly as much as it is a subjective creation. The wacky idea is that, as humanity looks for ways to make things better, it actually forms real world problems, which it can then work towards overcoming. If, in fact, this wacky idea is true, then the focus on solving the problems is the cause of the problems rather than the solution, and the realization that problems are created through a process of imagining problems is the solution. Initially, this is a solution only to the individual's experience of problems, but the more individuals who come to this realization, the more it becomes a collective solution to a collective 'problem'. Creation unfolds from the inside out, not from the outside in.
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Post by onehandclapping on May 9, 2011 17:45:31 GMT -5
Oh my giddy aunt, you are a bunch of new agers! You are obsessed with your own idealistic dreams of wanting all-the-time bliss. f**k that nature IS under attack. The fact that you DONT know this tells me clearly just how UN enlightened you are which makes this scene here very ironic. Sorry to be harsh, but i mean it. You all need a good sharp kick up the arse! I speak for myself here, but I don't seek bliss all the time. I "believe" that with the creation of bliss comes the creation of it's opposite. Therefore I am seeking nothing but complete acceptance of NOW, which is the only thing that exists. So sorry to pop your stereo type on "all" of us. I try to treat bliss the same way I treat other thoughts like nature is under attack by some evil force in the world. I watch the thought come, and then go. This idea that nature is under attack by something seems kind of funny to me too. Who is it that is attacking it? People in general?? What constitutes attacking? Who defines what is an attack and what isn't?? Do you create the definition of attacking?? Is fishing okay unless done with a motorized boat?? Is driving a car an attack?? Does this mean you don't drive anywhere??? Please tell me what qualifies as an " ATTACK ON NATURE" by your definition?? What is ironic, is that you think we are "obsessed" with OUR "idealistic dreams", and yet you appear to want this utopian society that isn't attacking nature or doing whatever it is that you think is the RIGHT WAY to do things. Where is the difference between what you think we are and what you seem to think you are??
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