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Post by enigma on May 1, 2011 16:57:46 GMT -5
"By tomorrow I’ll be away for 10 days and on my packing list I have “some inspirational reading”! In afew words you just gave me what I’ll take along, that’s plenty to chew on. So grateful E, as ever."
Cool. Happy trails!
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Post by klaus on May 1, 2011 17:06:53 GMT -5
Of course one cannot find happiness in a duel world. It will always change into its opposite and the search continues. It's like a dog chasing its tail. The dog will go round and round until it is utterly exhausted not any closer then when it started. It's at the point of exhaustion the dog forgets the tail; it is no longer a goal to be reached. The tail is just there.
This is a way of saying you're chasing your own tail until you forget it.
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Post by dreamerrach on May 1, 2011 17:08:56 GMT -5
I hate that analogy . . .
My dogs catch their own tails all the time!
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Post by klaus on May 1, 2011 17:23:35 GMT -5
I have never seen a dog catch its own tail while running around and around. I would like to see that.
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Post by waterdog on May 1, 2011 17:36:50 GMT -5
E said "Yeah, well everyone can, right? In the history of humanity, not one human has found the secret to a permanent state of happiness. If it exists, since everyone in the world has been looking for it, you'd think somebody would have found it. If somebody had actually found it, the whole world would be beating a path to his door."
This is an out and out lie. It does exist and many have found it. It just simply does not include "others".
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Post by enigma on May 1, 2011 17:39:13 GMT -5
E, So is the seeking/searching ever fulfilled? My searching has always been more about truth than happiness. In fact, the search has been carried on at the expense of relative happiness. For example, I left the relative comfort of my christian upbringing because I recognized the untruth of it. Also, it seems that there is a refining process that happens in the search process. Most people start searching for relative happiness in things, like money, fame, sex. At some point, we get exhausted with that, either because we were unsuccessful in getting those things, or we did get them and we realized we still weren't happy. The question arises "Well, what's really going on here?" Then the search is refined into a search for "Truth." Personally, I looked through religion, then philosophy and then science, and none of those things "out there' had satisfying answers. Then I heard about this non-dual stuff, and the search was refined again to a search within. It feels to me that with each step, I'm a little closer to Truth. Yeah, that's how it goes. We explore all the obvious possibilities, and when none of that works, we take a look at this esoteric, woo woo transcendental stuff. The search for happiness never changed, just the thing that we think will provide it. But the woo woo stuff approaches the problem of happiness from the opposite perspective. Instead of looking for a state of mind, we look beyond all states of mind. instead of looking for what makes us happy, we take a look at what makes us unhappy, and see if it's real. Instead of adding happiness, we see if we can take away all unhappiness. This removing of unhappiness is not a state of happiness, because the only way to permanently remove unhappiness is to make it unconditional, and all states are conditional. The goal, in this case, is not happiness but Peace, and while we often think of them as the same, and many teachers will talk about them interchangeably, they aren't the same thing at all, and this distinction becomes important when we're addressing the dualistic search for happiness. This presents a bit of a problem for the seeker because all he knows is dualistic happiness and dualistic peace, and neither of those are permanent. Conceptual peace actually gets pretty boring real quick, so we're not even sure that's a good thing, but of course nondual Peace is not at all like dualistic peace. Nondual Peace is the 'Peace that passes all understanding', meaning mind cannot even know what that is, and so what is it really that is being sought? What I contend is that the seeker does not know what the goal is. The best we can say, perhaps, is that Peace is the absence of suffering; the transcendence of all dualistic mind states such as happy/sad and peace/turmoil. Our fundamental nature is not happiness, it is Peace, and this Peace is identical to Freedom, Love, Joy, all of which are the same. All of these words are borrowed from dualistic experience, which is at best a dim reflection of what Peace really is. Our fundamental nature is incorruptible, which lends it the sole distinction of permanence. Our fundamental nature cannot be absent, which throws into question the entire process of searching for something. Our fundamental nature is the source of all thought and conceptualization and therefore cannot be conceived or perceived. A seeker cannot seek this, but it can be seen that what is being sought (dualistic happiness, regardless of the name it is given) cannot be found. This can be realized because it is all dualistic thought and not something ineffable that mind can't grasp.
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Post by enigma on May 1, 2011 17:43:23 GMT -5
"And don't make the mistake of thinking that I believe a word I've said..."
Okay, that makes two of us. Duality! Hehe.
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Post by enigma on May 1, 2011 17:46:35 GMT -5
Of course one cannot find happiness in a duel world. It will always change into its opposite and the search continues. It's like a dog chasing its tail. The dog will go round and round until it is utterly exhausted not any closer then when it started. It's at the point of exhaustion the dog forgets the tail; it is no longer a goal to be reached. The tail is just there. This is a way of saying you're chasing your own tail until you forget it. Yup, though it doesn't have to end in exhaustion. An alternative is to simply notice the tail is attached to your own butt. Hehe.
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Post by therealfake on May 1, 2011 19:01:49 GMT -5
Of course one cannot find happiness in a duel world. It will always change into its opposite and the search continues. It's like a dog chasing its tail. The dog will go round and round until it is utterly exhausted not any closer then when it started. It's at the point of exhaustion the dog forgets the tail; it is no longer a goal to be reached. The tail is just there. This is a way of saying you're chasing your own tail until you forget it. Yup, though it doesn't have to end in exhaustion. An alternative is to simply notice the tail is attached to your own butt. Hehe. A dog chases it's tail, because that's the simple expression of emptiness, or God, or the eternal... Noticing your tail is attached to your butt is the illusory interpretation, that separates us from that expression and what's gotten us into trouble in the first place... Just be like the dog chasing your tail and forget about the rest...
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Post by onehandclapping on May 1, 2011 19:12:26 GMT -5
A dog chases it's tail, because that's the simple expression of emptiness, or God, or the eternal... Noticing your tail is attached to your butt is the illusory interpretation, that separates us from that expression and what's gotten us into trouble in the first place... Just be like the dog chasing your tail and forget about the rest... Yes but remember if you are in trouble and stop chasing, do not begin licking too close to the base of your tail. Although, without a backdrop of good taste, it might be fun........ ...... ......
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Post by charliegee on May 1, 2011 20:06:20 GMT -5
yes, but ....
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Post by teetown on May 1, 2011 21:08:15 GMT -5
TRF, you speak with quite a bit of authority. So I have a question.
For you, was there an instance when the truth was seen, or is it more of a gradual process?
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Post by masuki on May 1, 2011 21:13:35 GMT -5
Hi! want to know more
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 1, 2011 21:26:11 GMT -5
Nice thread! Yup, the search, the honest search, just keeps boiling it all down. Down down down. The pot, empty and hot, will eventually just has to be let go of. Intensity of the flame, quality of the pot, amount of water, sensitivity of the hand, awareness of the process... beautiful stuff. I have never seen a dog catch its own tail while running around and around. I would like to see that. LOL on this one! Thanks!
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Post by dreamerrach on May 1, 2011 22:06:42 GMT -5
ROFLOL
If I had a camera, I'd videotape it. Maybe he has a long tail. Thinking about it, it's only the bigger dog I've seen catch his own tail. I bet if I did some video searches I could find an example; surely my dog is not so unique.
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