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Post by enigma on Mar 7, 2011 20:41:52 GMT -5
You know what it means only because you had the experience and you believe what you experienced. There's a difference between experiencing being inside and outside, and realizing inside and outside are only concepts.
[
Experience is not always happening, but awareness is always present. The person is the experience that comes and goes. What you fundamentally are is the awareness that is aware of this coming and going.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 7, 2011 20:51:03 GMT -5
Nope
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Post by mamza on Mar 7, 2011 21:46:32 GMT -5
LOL. "Well you're not quite right, and here's why.... this and this and this..."
........Nope.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 7, 2011 21:56:15 GMT -5
Nupe neti neti
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Post by zendancer on Mar 7, 2011 23:04:47 GMT -5
You know what it means only because you had the experience and you believe what you experienced. There's a difference between experiencing being inside and outside, and realizing inside and outside are only concepts. [ Experience is not always happening, but awareness is always present. The person is the experience that comes and goes. What you fundamentally are is the awareness that is aware of this coming and going. Yep.
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Post by enigma on Mar 7, 2011 23:56:34 GMT -5
"........Nope."
Ouch!
"Yep."
Okay, I feel better now. Hehe.
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Post by mamza on Mar 8, 2011 0:45:52 GMT -5
That's really kind of nuts (in the mind-blowing kind of way) when you think about it. It all sounds so complicated when you think about it, but it's simple when you just do it. You can even see very clearly the various barriers between you and the seeing of isness or whatever. For example, I can see how the big blob of whateverness is sort of alive and moving, and everything is starting to merge into one dealio.... but I can also see very clearly how it's still being interpreted as 'this and that'. Aware of it, but unable to change it for whatever reason (lack of willingness, maybe?).
Anyway, long story short: Somewhere in the world there's a 5 year old in a candy shop. I share their joy.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 8, 2011 10:31:25 GMT -5
Hmmm Hi Mamza,
In truth you are always seeing "isness" there is never a moment you are not. You are always having the experience of what is with the exception for most when in deep sleep. When you dream you are experiencing isness, when you wake up after sleep and open your eyes you experience isness.
When you sit quiet or take a walk in the woods you are experiencing isness. When you sit for hours and the thoughts stop who is the observer that knows the thoughts have stop is experiencing isness. This is why I have said you are always in experiencing. You can play with words bla bla bla but this has been and continues to be my experience of what is. Even in deep sleep for someone that has completely awaken isness is experience though rare it happens.
If you go about your life, work with this in mind that you are always experiencing the isness, the moment you will progress because you are now looking at what is with no separation but if you get into the debates that experience is not this or not that bla bla bla you are now in separation. When you are in this mode you will just go about things as always seeing separation in everything with the hope that someday you will see and realize oneness when in fact you already are but by divine hypnosis (Ramesh) you simply dismiss the actual as something separate.
Finally a nice sunny day, time to walk.
Peace Michael
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Post by enigma on Mar 8, 2011 12:48:28 GMT -5
"you are always in experiencing.....this has been and continues to be my experience of what is."
Can't argue with that. Hehe.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 8, 2011 13:51:44 GMT -5
"you are always in experiencing.....this has been and continues to be my experience of what is." Can't argue with that. Hehe. Oh you're not trying hard enough then hehe Michael
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jenpa
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by jenpa on Mar 8, 2011 14:44:15 GMT -5
So, if one is always experiencing Is-ness, then Is-ness would not be an Experience, per se; Is-ness would not be a separate event or occurrence that leaves an impression on someone. Then, fundamentally one is always 'What Is' or Awareness, but perhaps not always 'Present' or awake to 'The What Is' or Awareness?
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 8, 2011 14:51:41 GMT -5
So, if one is always experiencing Is-ness, then Is-ness would not be an Experience, per se; Is-ness would not be a separate event or occurrence that leaves an impression on someone. Then, fundamentally one is always 'What Is' or Awareness, but perhaps not always 'Present' or awake to 'The What Is' or Awareness? Exactly Jenpa However as one continues on the path they will have experiences of what is , you can say that these experiences are like filters showing some of what is or the actual with mixed illusion or imagination if you will. Never discount or not trust any experiences they are not out to get you as some here believe. They are exactly what you need for the moment and then you move on. Michael
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Post by therealfake on Mar 8, 2011 15:02:17 GMT -5
So, if one is always experiencing Is-ness, then Is-ness would not be an Experience, per se; Is-ness would not be a separate event or occurrence that leaves an impression on someone. Then, fundamentally one is always 'What Is' or Awareness, but perhaps not always 'Present' or awake to 'The What Is' or Awareness? That's fundamentally correct, there is awareness and awareness being aware of experience. There isn't an experiencer, but what happens is that the mind conceptualizes or thinks about the experience while it is happening. So the awareness observes both the mind, thinking about the experience as well as the experience itself. The awareness observes the conceptualization of the experience by the mind, creating the false sense of a separate person, having an experience.... It's very subtle, yet easily observable, to see the mind thinking about the experience while it is happening...
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Post by jasonl on Mar 8, 2011 17:07:49 GMT -5
Awareness is formless, timeless, unchanging, ever present. There is nothing you can do to be that, and you always already are that.
There is awareness, You, and what appears to You. The witness permeates even these words, both "your" form and "mine". Awareness is untouchable, unthinkable, ungraspable, yet nonetheless realizable as what you are and have always been.
So realization itself would be "non-mental", timeless in nature, and in essence always already the case- while understanding what you are not, ie a mind or separate self, is mental, or something facilitated by thinking, and something which "appears" to take place over time. How could life appear without you're Being Here for it to appear to?
At the end of the day, it seems the question is can there be a gameplan with no objective? I dont spose why not, as long as its seen clearly that you are not nor ever were a participant in this game created entirely through your own imagination.
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Post by jasonl on Mar 8, 2011 17:17:04 GMT -5
On the one hand I'm with you Michael. Experiences are here to be learned from. What is the human experience if not a learning experience?
Yet, in terms of reality, who is learning and what, if not the mind which isn't you, or the separate self that doesn't exist? Enforcing the illusion of separation seems counterintuitive when advising in the name of disillusionment.
Experiences aren't the "bad guy", and are certainly nothing to be feared. But they certainly are never anything more than mind created fragments, are they?
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