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Post by ivory on Jan 30, 2011 20:26:40 GMT -5
What does it mean to stop seeking? Also, WHEN should one stop seeking?
I never fully understood what that meant, but there are a couple ideas I have and I'm curious to hear how you guys interpret the notion of "stop seeking". My ideas...
1. Continue your practice, focus only the step that's immediately in front of you. In other words act but don't reflect on the fruit of the act.
2. Once you've reached the point where you KNOW there is no self, understand the workings of the machine-like nature of the mind/ego, realize that you CAN'T/DON'T know anything at all, have been scared nearly to death, gone completely insane, thought that dying was a more appealing alternative... chill the f*ck out, quit your practice, and let things unfold as they will.
3. Read one book on spirituality then stop seeking / do nothing at all.
I watch thought quite often and what I've noticed is that at this point in my journey at least 75% of my thoughts are about awakening. When it will happen, what I should be doing, etc (there were some really dark times where I just wanted it to be over). I know that at this point in my journey it is unfruitful for me to think about awakening. I just don't know how to turn these d**n thoughts off or what to do about them. How to stop seeking?
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Post by therealfake on Jan 30, 2011 20:57:15 GMT -5
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Post by ivory on Jan 30, 2011 21:05:10 GMT -5
No offense, but are you speaking from experience, TRF? Also, this thread is about not seeking.
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2011 21:09:20 GMT -5
I like #3. Hehe.
Serially, if there is a decision to stop seeking because it seems like the best time to stop in order to increase the chances of self realization, the seeking hasn't stopped at all, right? It just got more clever. As such, I would say the focus is not on realizing the self, which cannot be done, but on realizing the futility of the search, which CAN be done. The search is a mind formulation. Mind can see the truth of the matter. That Easter egg hunt can be entirely successful because you're the one who hid the Easter eggs.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 30, 2011 21:11:58 GMT -5
Ivory: When we are seeking, it feels as if we are something separate seeking a state of oneness. When this is happening, oneness is imagining that it is something separate seeking oneness. When the realization of oneness occurs, that which was thought to be separate is then recognized as a thought, only. Oneness realizes that oneness is all there is. This realization is what puts an ends to all seeking. The seeker is recognized to have been an illusion.
It is not particularly helpful to keep reflecting upon the state of the seeker because this simply reinforces the illusion that a seeker exists. Instead, you might think about the Nike commercial and "Just do it;" do whatever needs to be done so completely and so intensely that time, space, and selfhood disappears in the doing. If your practice is listening, listen so intently that "you" disappear into the act of listening. Same same with all other practices. At some point the thought structure that supports a sense of separateness will simply collapse from a lack of reinforcement.
Until that realization occurs, the process plays itself out however it plays itself out.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 30, 2011 21:41:24 GMT -5
I like #3. Hehe. Serially, if there is a decision to stop seeking because it seems like the best time to stop in order to increase the chances of self realization, the seeking hasn't stopped at all, right? It just got more clever. As such, I would say the focus is not on realizing the self, which cannot be done, but on realizing the futility of the search, which CAN be done. The search is a mind formulation. Mind can see the truth of the matter. That Easter egg hunt can be entirely successful because you're the one who hid the Easter eggs. Yeesss!!! Your Awakened... You can go home now  |
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Post by ivory on Jan 30, 2011 22:15:05 GMT -5
Lol, that was a bit of a joke, but yeah. That was my fav as well. Do nothing, woot, easy! |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 30, 2011 22:18:56 GMT -5
You cannot stop seeking.What happens is you come to a place that your "seeking exhausted"
Once you get to this place the seeking stops on it's own but never by your volition.
Michael
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Post by ivory on Jan 30, 2011 22:26:38 GMT -5
Enigma said, "Serially, if there is a decision to stop seeking because it seems like the best time to stop in order to increase the chances of self realization, the seeking hasn't stopped at all, right? It just got more clever."
Precisely.
Enigma said, "As such, I would say the focus is not on realizing the self, which cannot be done, but on realizing the futility of the search, which CAN be done."
Okay, I don't think that's where I'm at, I haven't realized the futility. Far from it.
I often hear teachers say, "stop seeking". I've even heard some teachers say it's the first thing they tell students. But I've yet to hear one say what it means to stop seeking or why.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 30, 2011 22:30:35 GMT -5
watch the Gangaji video I just posted. Gangaji was/is a big one for telling people to just stop.
Michael
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2011 22:48:59 GMT -5
Enigma said, "Serially, if there is a decision to stop seeking because it seems like the best time to stop in order to increase the chances of self realization, the seeking hasn't stopped at all, right? It just got more clever."Precisely. Enigma said, "As such, I would say the focus is not on realizing the self, which cannot be done, but on realizing the futility of the search, which CAN be done."Okay, I don't think that's where I'm at, I haven't realized the futility. Far from it. I often hear teachers say, "stop seeking". I've even heard some teachers say it's the first thing they tell students. But I've yet to hear one say what it means to stop seeking or why. As Michael says, it can't be stopped. A teacher may say the seeking needs to end, which is a pointer, but a teacher who prescribes it to everyone as a method of finding doesn't get it. Yes, Gangaji was told to stop and she stopped. God only knows what happened. Maybe it was precisely what she needed to hear at that moment, but I have an issue with "inviting" everyone to stop as though it's a magic bullet for everybody. The seeking must exhaust itself, and almost everybody finds a nice plateau to rest on forever before they get there. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2011 22:57:58 GMT -5
BTW, the 'why' is that the purpose of the seeking is not to find, but to end the seeking. Basically, there's nothing to find because it was never lost or hidden. That which is actually doing the seeking is what is being sought. It's not an object to the seeker, but rather the subject that is seeking. If something is found, it becomes yet another object appearing to that which is being sought, so to find the object of the search is to fail. To fail to objectify subjectivity is to succeed.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 30, 2011 23:03:58 GMT -5
Ivory: Teachers realize that there is no seeker and nothing to seek. They know that ordinary life is how oneness manifests. This is why they often tell people to stop seeking. Zen Master Seung Sahn used to say, "Only go straight; don't know. Put it all down. Just do it." This was his way of advising people to stop reinforcing the idea that there is someone who can find something through seeking. Another way of saying this is, "Stop thinking, reflecting, fantasizing, imagining, checking the mind, etc, and become so immersed in life that you forget you are something separate." Or, "Stay in a state of agnosia (not knowing) until the truth appears."
Many people meditate or do other practices in an effort to wake up, but they spend a lot of time checking on their progress. LOL. As long as they keep checking themselves, they will continue to feel as if they are something separate in some state of progress toward some (imaginary) goal of unity. If a teacher tells them to stop checking themselves, they will reply, "But if I don't check on how I'm doing, how will I know if I'm making progress?" They don't realize that it's the very idea of a seeker needing to make progress that is preventing the realization that no separate seeker exists.
I never tell people to stop seeking. I like to use the opposite approach. I tell them to seek like crazy, to seek like a mad person, to seek like a single-minded fool, in the sense that "a fool who persists in his folly will eventually become wise." Remember the two parables that Jesus taught about finding the kingdom of God? The point of those two parables is that persistence is important. If you knock on God's door long enough and loud enough, God will eventually have no choice but to take pity on you and let you in. You will become so irritating that you cannot be left outside making all that noise.
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2011 23:24:21 GMT -5
"If you knock on God's door long enough and loud enough, God will eventually have no choice but to take pity on you and let you in. You will become so irritating that you cannot be left outside making all that noise."
I would think if nothing else it would violate the neighborhood community regulations and somebody would call the cops.
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Post by ivory on Jan 30, 2011 23:41:54 GMT -5
Nice posts from Michael, ZD, and Enigma. Thanks guys. Stay in a state of agnosia (not knowing) until the truth appears." This is interesting. When you say not-knowing, you mean in that state where you realize you CAN'T and DON'T know anything? That was my life last week. It was not fun. I never tell people to stop seeking. I like to use the opposite approach. I tell them to seek like crazy, to seek like a mad person, to seek like a single-minded fool, in the sense that "a fool who persists in his folly will eventually become wise." Good, those guys drive me nuts Option #3 was don't seek / do nothing, I have a feeling that some seekers literally interpret that as "go back to your lives and do absolutely nothing and it will happen" If you knock on God's door long enough and loud enough, God will eventually have no choice but to take pity on you and let you in. You will become so irritating that you cannot be left outside making all that noise. Lol |
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