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Post by michaelsees on Feb 3, 2011 22:22:38 GMT -5
Gosh it takes a lot to get you out of your cave! Nice to see you. I know but it's the truth, there is no progression to awakening sorry it's just the way it IS. It's why I enjoy Karl Renz so much he says the same thing , people hate the guy but you know he tells it like it is. Spiritual purgatory is believing that somehow you as a no self a illusion can possibly do something to see who you truly are you can't. So why not just be happy with life live it as you wish and when it happens it will happen. Now I may have been just a bit off with nothing you can do it does seem sincerity and desire is there . However I am not so sure if even this is needed. I am sure there are people that just awaken see it and then go back to whatever never having any desire to begin with but it sounds good.
Michael
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Post by klaus on Feb 3, 2011 22:38:15 GMT -5
Michael,
Oh! I get it exactly like the cows coming home.
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 3, 2011 23:20:42 GMT -5
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Post by enigma on Feb 3, 2011 23:27:44 GMT -5
If you seek until the cows come home, then you'll be enlightened! MooOOOOooo.
I had a friend who used to insist that reading a cook book was eggzaklee the same as reading Nisargadatta. Of course, attending a Satsang is the same as playing poker with your buddies so you might as well forget all about it and do what you want, as though you CAN forget about it and doing what you want isn't happening already. This misconception is the result of grasping certain non-dual ideas like 'you are not the doer' or 'words can't convey Truth', whatever.
The statement that there is no path and nobody progresses toward Truth doesn't mean seeking has nothing to do with finding, It points to the fact that Truth is already here and you are already IT, and that's what is seeking. Almost always, this is realized after a period of rather intense seeking. Pointing to the rare case where a skateboarder on the Santa Monica pier dropped his boom-box and became enlightened doesn't demonstrate that seeking is irrelevant. In fact, I would say if the seeking is intense, and there is sufficient willingness and devotion, self realization is virtually guaranteed. Truth is not hiding, so why is it so seldom recognized? Because even those who are seeking usually aren't seeking Truth.
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Post by klaus on Feb 3, 2011 23:39:41 GMT -5
The cows coming home is TRUTH.
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Post by therealfake on Feb 4, 2011 0:15:49 GMT -5
The cows coming home is TRUTH. Pick your truth... 1) The mind perceives the cows coming home. 2) The cows shape the mind into believing that their coming home. 3) There are no cows coming home. 4) All of the above.
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Post by question on Feb 4, 2011 0:23:51 GMT -5
If something happens then theoretically one can make it happen, regardless of whether it "just" happens or "for a reason".
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Post by klaus on Feb 4, 2011 0:32:58 GMT -5
The cows coming home is TRUTH. Pick your truth... 1) The mind perceives the cows coming home. 2) The cows shape the mind into believing that their coming home. 3) There are no cows coming home. 4) All of the above. None of the above.
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Post by wolfgang on Feb 4, 2011 0:37:59 GMT -5
I thought the cow jumped over the moon.
this zen ditty (probably paraphrased but...) will apply: Awakening occurs by accident, but practice makes you accident prone.
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Post by wolfgang on Feb 4, 2011 0:40:25 GMT -5
If something happens then theoretically one can make it happen, regardless of whether it "just" happens or "for a reason". Can the self, that you think you are, choose to not be a self anymore?
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Post by klaus on Feb 4, 2011 1:08:19 GMT -5
If something happens then theoretically one can make it happen, regardless of whether it "just" happens or "for a reason". Can the self, that you think you are, choose to not be a self anymore? wolfgang, Just as surely as the cows coming home.
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Post by enigma on Feb 4, 2011 1:28:02 GMT -5
Of course the imaginary self can't choose anything, and what you actually are isn't so much a choosing thang, which makes the point moot, but what you are IS a noticing thing, and self realization is a noticing. The noticing (or not) is driven from within some complex illusions, and so the seeking is about dissolving illusions, which also involves noticing.
Dis-empowering the imaginary self is useful, but confusion and stagnation, not so much, really.
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Post by therealfake on Feb 4, 2011 9:41:42 GMT -5
Reality is participatory, no observer, no cows. No cows, no perception. No observer and no cows, 'is' what there is beyond this reality. We can say we are 'that', but no one can know...
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 4, 2011 10:30:34 GMT -5
If you seek until the cows come home, then you'll be enlightened! MooOOOOooo. I had a friend who used to insist that reading a cook book was eggzaklee the same as reading Nisargadatta. Of course, attending a Satsang is the same as playing poker with your buddies so you might as well forget all about it and do what you want, as though you CAN forget about it and doing what you want isn't happening already. This misconception is the result of grasping certain non-dual ideas like 'you are not the doer' or 'words can't convey Truth', whatever. The statement that there is no path and nobody progresses toward Truth doesn't mean seeking has nothing to do with finding, It points to the fact that Truth is already here and you are already IT, and that's what is seeking. Almost always, this is realized after a period of rather intense seeking. Pointing to the rare case where a skateboarder on the Santa Monica pier dropped his boom-box and became enlightened doesn't demonstrate that seeking is irrelevant. In fact, I would say if the seeking is intense, and there is sufficient willingness and devotion, self realization is virtually guaranteed. Truth is not hiding, so why is it so seldom recognized? Because even those who are seeking usually aren't seeking Truth. Actually all of you in your own way are agreeing with me. The only think you added was seeking which equals desire. This in my opinion is not correct. You need to understand and embrace this truth that nothing you can do will bring this awakening moment to you. Think for a moment how many millions of seekers we have in the world and what defines a seeker. Trappist monks that give their entire life to God 24/7 all year long, Buddhists etc. Do you really think just because your seeking a non dual awakening that it's a different kind of seeking than the above mentioned? Now that is very egotistic in my book. Take ZD I have no idea how many hours he had in doing nothing but staring at a wall still and quiet I imagine a lot. Do you know how many ZD's are out there still doing the same. No awakening will happen on it's own. All you need to do if you need to do anything is to be still and quiet and observe with with no seeking or thinking just be ready to accept.Now even this is more than you need to do but if you want to do anything just be still and observe that is enough more than enough. In truth you must be already awaken if you accept and believe in non duality there is only one and that one has always been awake and that one is you. So just stop knocking at the door that opens from the inside and give up . The you who you are is simply waiting for that moment to show itself to you. Every moment has the possibility in a split second to give you direct seeing. However you can do nothing to bring this moment to you quicker than when it will happen. If I tell you just be still and quiet and let all seeking and desire go. Then the next week bingo you get it it's not because you did those things it's because it happen exactly as it was suppose to happen. However now you carry this mental concept that you need to be still and quiet and tell everyone and before you know it you are a teacher giving satsang, writing books etc spreading a false truth. This is exactly what happens. Was it good to be still and quiet for a week sure but was that some kind of magical key to open the door from the inside I doubt it.I do think it takes a clear mind not tainted with drugs etc but even this may not be correct. What I do know and feel very strongly is that we have 100's of people today claiming they are awake and they are really snake oil salesmen making a living giving satsangs, books etc spreading a false truth.I am not saying they did not have some experience but I assure you waking up has nothing to do with what they are preaching about. You are not of this world in fact you are not, so all this stuff that we talk about here is for support of each other in the relative sense of things. No one can ever give you a accurate description of what and who you are. You can only have this for yourself when it happens to you with direct seeing it's that simple. The pointers that are used are a blessing and a curse. The intention may be well placed but the pointing is so vague you can easily get caught up in a pointer that grabs you and then you feel it's the truth and bingo you are awake by a "pointer" but chances are you are just in another mind trip which now is much harder to see because the you feel you are awake and everything makes sense. Ok well not sure why I am writing all this 99% will believe it's all BS but it's my truth and I stand by it with my life. Have a great day to all Michael
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Post by question on Feb 4, 2011 11:12:09 GMT -5
If something happens then theoretically one can make it happen, regardless of whether it "just" happens or "for a reason". Can the self, that you think you are, choose to not be a self anymore? No, which is my point. If awakening "just happens" then it can happen or not happen, which implies that awakening is a matter of luck, skill or grace.
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