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Post by therealfake on Feb 5, 2011 14:24:34 GMT -5
What you are sees itself. This isn't the same as the Absolute flashing you. If you get flashed, it's an experience 'you' had, it's not realizing yourself. Yes, keep looking. Yes, but there is no 'me', having a flashing experience... there is no experiencer, just experience. God or the absolute and the ego cannot be in the same room together... one disappears, guess which one?
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Post by mamza on Feb 5, 2011 14:43:21 GMT -5
I've bothered ZD with this question a few times before.... chances are the answer will lead to more experiences 'you' will have. At least that's what happened here. I've been giiven lots of advice but unfortunately the only thing I've gotten out of it is this: if something happens and ends in time, it was an experiences founded on the idea of 'you'.
Even that's not so good of a pointer because then your mind can hook onto the idea and generate experiences that fit the description. Things can get mighty complicated in the mind. Coincidentally, even the noticing of 'the absolute' seems like an experience.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 14:43:12 GMT -5
this is what I do I simple wait for what happens next. why wait? waiting seems like it's in the same category as seeking.
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 5, 2011 14:48:26 GMT -5
this is what I do I simple wait for what happens next. why wait? waiting seems like it's in the same category as seeking. Not really when I am waiting for a train I am not seeking it for I know it's coming. Michael
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 14:52:16 GMT -5
What's truly a mystery to me, is how the absolute, the creator of our breathtaking universe, the unimaginable power of what is... can be fooled by the power of the human mind and the mind doesn't even exist... Very strange.. Also, when God wakes up from the dream, say through a Buddha, or Maharishi, why does he seem to forget himself, in the billions of other unique human expressions? I know it is futile to ask about such things, but it sure is baffling... that same type of baffling happens over here all the time. especially with this concept of self. if it's just imagined, or an illusion, the thickness of a mirage, or a thought, how can it be so insidious? how, in the moment, can what is -- this -- be so easily obscured? just another question, but it comes up.
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 5, 2011 14:52:40 GMT -5
I've bothered ZD with this question a few times before.... chances are the answer will lead to more experiences 'you' will have. At least that's what happened here. I've been giiven lots of advice but unfortunately the only thing I've gotten out of it is this: if something happens and ends in time, it was an experiences founded on the idea of 'you'. Even that's not so good of a pointer because then your mind can hook onto the idea and generate experiences that fit the description. Things can get mighty complicated in the mind. Coincidentally, even the noticing of 'the absolute' seems like an experience. Yeah thanks it's all mind that is the humor of this the illusion playing it's own words with illusion. What it gets you as you have said is more experiences which are also illusion. No one can speak the truth here or anywhere as it's through the body/mind and with always be a lie no matter how nice it sounds and how right it sound. Peace Michael
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 15:00:03 GMT -5
why wait? waiting seems like it's in the same category as seeking. Not really when I am waiting for a train I am not seeking it for I know it's coming. Michael well you should write a book on your Grand Central Station, where the trains always run on time. but what if the train doesn't come? isn't there a lot going on at the station? the waiting sounds a bit like expecting. anyhoo, just thinking in text. the term waiting used as a way to describe the absolute or what is or this or whatev just seemed something else.
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Post by therealfake on Feb 5, 2011 14:59:58 GMT -5
Let's make it really simple... What you are is an 'ego'. Wow, shocking eh? If you are an ego, you are not 'being' what you really are. Ego's live in the dark while what you really are lives in the light. There is no light in the darkness, so you can't recognize your real self. When you meet your real self, face to face, your ego dies, as the darkness can no longer hide in the brilliant light. Now, you can have many beautiful experiences as an ego, maybe even have enlightening experiences, but you are still, an ego. Until you stop believing in your heart, that you are going to get old, get sick and die, you will always be an ego. Fear of death keeps you trapped from being what you are. But that ego death, is the key that opens the door to the shinning light. Told you it was really simple...
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2011 15:08:40 GMT -5
The difference between getting flashed and being the flasher is determined entirely by where you place yourself in the whole flashing scenario.
The body/mind is an illusion in the sense that it is not what you are. It DOES appear and it IS your expression in form. What is expressing, regardless of what is expressed, IS the Absolute. The expression, by itself, is not an illusion. It's just an expression. The moment it becomes a flasher victim, illusion is created.
I don't know anything. I don't know that I am a mind/body and I don't know that separation is true and I don't know that there's something called 'the Absolute' or something called 'Grace' or that anything can be known absolutely. I know that none of these things are known or can be known or have any ultimate relevance. So where does that leave 'me'? Pretty much nowhere, or if you like, everywhere. Same thing. There seems to be a lot of space in nowhere/everywhere. As Zen alluded to, what the heck is it? Who knows? But it's pretty clear where the question comes from, and it also has no ultimate relevance.
What we're talking about is really this whole process of drawing boxes around infinity and chiseling out pieces. We could talk at length about how and why this is done, but the question is what happens when you put down the chisel and back away slowly? The whole structure of chiseled pieces collapses back into infinity, along with all the questions about the chiseled pieces and the need to find more chiseled pieces and to arrange them in some kind of harmonious structure.
Seems like I keep pointing back to this imaginary chiseled structure here because mind keeps trying to find this infinity thingy. Surely it's clear that if it were found, it would be yet another chiseled piece. No guru ever found the God piece, so what is being looked for? What I'm suggesting is looking at the pieces scattered all around and noticing that you chiseled them out. They might look like Michelangelo's David or they may look like something Timothy Leary put together after a trip, but it only means what it means to you.
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2011 15:16:48 GMT -5
this is what I do I simple wait for what happens next. why wait? waiting seems like it's in the same category as seeking. Yeah, does seem like that. It's the idea 'Okay, I got it, I'm a person who doesn't exist who can't do anything and needs to wait for what DOES exist to shake me on the shoulder and wake me up to the fact that I'm the one shaking.' There's no reason at all that the insanity of that can't be seen.
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2011 15:26:27 GMT -5
I've bothered ZD with this question a few times before.... chances are the answer will lead to more experiences 'you' will have. At least that's what happened here. I've been giiven lots of advice but unfortunately the only thing I've gotten out of it is this: if something happens and ends in time, it was an experiences founded on the idea of 'you'. Even that's not so good of a pointer because then your mind can hook onto the idea and generate experiences that fit the description. Things can get mighty complicated in the mind. Coincidentally, even the noticing of 'the absolute' seems like an experience. Right, which is why I say realization is not an experience. Mind has a bit of trouble with that because all it knows is experiences and what it's looking for is a better experience, but it can't be helped. The problem is that something is 'known' (and therefore experienced) that isn't so.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 5, 2011 15:27:43 GMT -5
What's truly a mystery to me, is how the absolute, the creator of our breathtaking universe, the unimaginable power of what is... can be fooled by the power of the human mind and the mind doesn't even exist... Very strange.. Also, when God wakes up from the dream, say through a Buddha, or Maharishi, why does he seem to forget himself, in the billions of other unique human expressions? I know it is futile to ask about such things, but it sure is baffling... TRF: What do you mean by "the mind doesn't even exist"? The body/mind is what it is. Human beings have an intellect. The intellect is an evolutionary development. As far as we know, most living creatures do not have an intellect. The intellect allows advanced primates to picture the world to themselves. These pictures are like cartoons, and most people mistake the cartoons for the real thing. It is only now, after seven million years of primate evolution, following hundreds of millions of years of pre-primate evolution, that relatively large numbers of people are starting to wake up. This website is a perfect example of how the path of non-duality, free from past religious traditions, is becoming widely disseminated. It won't be too much longer before non-duality will be on the cover of Time Magazine! After all, Eckhart has already been on the Oprah show. AAMOF Eckhart and many others have talked about this issue, and I fully agree with their speculations; we are probably on the verge of a major revolution in human understanding. In the past hundred years, we have had several paradigm shifts in scientific understanding, but every shift remained an intellectual shift. The next shift will be a shift beyond the intellect. At that point the intellect will finally be recognized for what it is, a remarkable tool for simulating reality rather than a necessary arbiter of reality. One last point. The Infinite does not actually forget Itself. It simply fails to recognize Itself until two conditions are met--(1) It evolves the capability of abstraction and (2) abstractions become so unsatisfying that It is forced to leave abstractions behind. One might say that until the intellect appears the Infinite always revels in Its isness. Through human beings, because of where they reside on the spectrum of evolutionary development, It has usually imagined that It is something other than what It is. This case of mistaken identity has almost always led to unnecessary suffering. When the Infinite, through a human body/mind, finally discovers the truth of Its being, It perceives both the power as well as the limitations of the intellect. It can then relax and go back to reveling in It's isness without being troubled by the intellect. THIS IS THAT REVELING! Ha ha ha. Can you dig it?
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2011 15:29:50 GMT -5
why wait? waiting seems like it's in the same category as seeking. Not really when I am waiting for a train I am not seeking it for I know it's coming. Michael Does that big locomotive doohickey right in front of you mean anything to you?
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 5, 2011 15:36:04 GMT -5
The difference between getting flashed and being the flasher is determined entirely by where you place yourself in the whole flashing scenario. Who is the you and where is the place The body/mind is an illusion in the sense that it is not what you are. It DOES appear and it IS your expression in form. What is expressing, regardless of what is expressed, IS the Absolute. The expression, by itself, is not an illusion. It's just an expression. The moment it becomes a flasher victim, illusion is created. Same old stuff doesn't interest me muchI don't know anything. I don't know that I am a mind/body and I don't know that separation is true and I don't know that there's something called 'the Absolute' or something called 'Grace' or that anything can be known absolutely. I know that none of these things are known or can be known or have any ultimate relevance. So where does that leave 'me'? Pretty much nowhere, or if you like, everywhere. Same thing. There seems to be a lot of space in nowhere/everywhere. As Zen alluded to, what the heck is it? Who knows? But it's pretty clear where the question comes from, and it also has no ultimate relevance. This is excellent probably the best post at least for me that I have read of yours. Thank you for being honest not that you are not.
What we're talking about is really this whole process of drawing boxes around infinity and chiseling out pieces. We could talk at length about how and why this is done, but the question is what happens when you put down the chisel and back away slowly? The whole structure of chiseled pieces collapses back into infinity, along with all the questions about the chiseled pieces and the need to find more chiseled pieces and to arrange them in some kind of harmonious structure. AgreedSeems like I keep pointing back to this imaginary chiseled structure here because mind keeps trying to find this infinity thingy. Surely it's clear that if it were found, it would be yet another chiseled piece. No guru ever found the God piece, so what is being looked for? What I'm suggesting is looking at the pieces scattered all around and noticing that you chiseled them out. They might look like Michelangelo's David or they may look like something Timothy Leary put together after a trip, but it only means what it means to you. Well you know the story Michelangelo dragging a very large stone up the road and passer by asks why are you dragging such a large stone and his reply there is a Angel inside and I am going to release her.
Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Feb 5, 2011 15:40:50 GMT -5
Does that big locomotive doohickey right in front of you mean anything to you? Yes if it's right infront I hope the brakes work on a more non dual take nothing ever is in front of me. But trains are big and real Michael
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