|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 4:38:51 GMT -5
I've got a question about repetitive thoughts. When I'm mindful throughout the day, I notice that I typically have 2 or 3 scenarios that I play over and over in my head (imaginary conversations).
I've tried everything, I can't seem to get to the bottom of it. I can't figure out why it is that these thoughts replay over and over. I'm curious if anyone has found ways to get to the bottom of these. I can't seem to figure out what triggers them or how to eradicate them.
These thoughts are sneaky as hell. I'll notice them, nip them in the bud, then sometimes even seconds later the same thoughts will appear.
My meditation teacher says that by simply noticing them they will dissolve over time. But these have been playing out for a while and they don't seem to go away.
I suspect that there's some underlying belief but I can't say for sure. Any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by metapleroma on Jan 11, 2011 5:46:38 GMT -5
"Thoughts are like airplanes flying in the air. If you ignore them, there is no problem. If you pay attention to them, you create an airport inside your head and permit them to land!" (Ibid., pp. 29-30, 48).
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 10:50:10 GMT -5
We're talking about mindfulness here. If there's a repetitive thought being played over and over in your head, that's a good indication that there's a problem. I don't think that problems should be ignored.
|
|
|
Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 10:57:55 GMT -5
Hi ivory. I call it .. getting caught in a mental loop. The same stupid reoccurring thoughts over and over. I'll catch myself in one, then scold whatever part of my mind is responsible for it ... and then that part of my mind will ask, "why are you in charge?" I've yet to answer that question.
Don't fight it, just observe. They aren't real, so they will eventually fall away. If you are resolute in staying on this path we're on, you'll find the unreal aspects of your life just disappearing .. without you even noticing. But be aware that being resolute does not mean trying, it must occur effortlessly, and it will.
|
|
|
Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 11:16:14 GMT -5
We're talking about mindfulness here. If there's a repetitive thought being played over and over in your head, that's a good indication that there's a problem. I don't think that problems should be ignored. Problems? What are they? Those so called problems in your head are what Buddha called suffering. None of them are real, they are all imaginary. And yes, they should definitely be ignored (or observed is probably a better word). Some people think those so-called problems are areas in your life which need to be addressed. I seriously doubt that, but I'm not really trying to give you any advice, I'm just talking. Have you read the book I Am That? It's free to download, if you haven't. I found those words to be the most instructive of any I've ever read.
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 11:40:03 GMT -5
Observed is a better word than ignored. If ignoring our thoughts was the right thing to do we might as well pack our bags, go home, and rejoin the rest of the world in their ignorance.
Problem was a bad word choice on my part, I don't think anything should be acted out. But I can't help but wonder WHY it is that these thoughts go round and around, what makes the mind tick? I also wonder if there is a quicker or more effective way of resolving these.
Thanks for the responses.
|
|
judge
Junior Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by judge on Jan 11, 2011 11:53:59 GMT -5
don't observe, don't notice, don't mindfulness. they all are equivalent to paying attention to the thought. attention will feed energy to the thought and sustain it. got it? attention is the key point here. just don't pay attention to it, just ignore the thought. try it and you will see the difference.
|
|
|
Post by karen on Jan 11, 2011 12:05:50 GMT -5
Ivory, there is a problem. Compulsively repeating thoughts/experiences of the past do point out a problem. But they are not the problem - they are the EFFECT of a deeper problem. And I wouldn't say effort isn't needed because in my book it most certainly is. But the effort must not be placed on symptoms of a deeper problem - rather the effort should be placed on the deeper problem.
Look. If the thoughts you kept thinking about were: gather up tax information for 2010, then wouldn't it be prudent to either now gather up the tax information, or at least place a note in a prominent location to remind you of this and thus get it out of your head.
But when thoughts and memories come back and haunt us from the past, what action step in the world can we take to resolve these issues that are now set in stone as it were? You can't. So effort must be place elsewhere to push the lever to get this compulsion to notice old thoughts to diminish.
The easiest practice I know of to date is the link in the signature line of my post. But if that don't appeal to you, there are a myriad of other non-conceptual awareness practices you can do other than classic meditation (which I couldn't do - too restless).
|
|
|
Post by question on Jan 11, 2011 12:32:59 GMT -5
In my case it's not so much thoughts that are repetitive but music. There's constantly a tune playing in the background. My mind is a jukebox. When I was younger it was mostly mentally drawing shapes, complex rectangels, graphs, circles etc.
For a while I tried to listen to music with no discernable repetitive tune, such as classical hindu, christian, buddhist music. But the silly tunes always come back to spam my mind.
|
|
|
Post by jasonl on Jan 11, 2011 12:33:06 GMT -5
Without knowing the nature of the thoughts ivory, it would be tough to say. If there is a residue of suffering to the thoughts, there is likely some form of emotional conflict underlying them.
Inquire into these imaginary conversations, and ask, is there something that the mind is running from here? Is it possible that these thoughts are just the mind projecting repressed emotions into a loop of suffering here and now? Often times the mind projects repressed emotion onto the image of self, thoughts which make it seem like there "is something wrong with me/life". Other times the mind will project repressed pain from past onto potential pain of tomorrow, the fear of past pain repeating loop.
In terms of the mechanics of the thinking mind, I find it is the fear of emotional pain which allows suffering to endure. We can say past is nothing but thought, not ultimately real, but if the mind itself has blocked out some part of its own thought created reality, which would include the feeling of emotional pain, it is up to the mind to get to the root, find that pain, and feel it fully.
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 12:38:43 GMT -5
Ivory, there is a problem. Compulsively repeating thoughts/experiences of the past do point out a problem. But they are not the problem - they are the EFFECT of a deeper problem. And I wouldn't say effort isn't needed because in my book it most certainly is. But the effort must not be placed on symptoms of a deeper problem - rather the effort should be placed on the deeper problem. Yes! This is what I was getting at. What's going on at a deeper level? And I agree with you about effort. I disagree with those that say that no effort is needed (But that's not to say to get caught up in an endless cycle of seeking). Look. If the thoughts you kept thinking about were: gather up tax information for 2010, then wouldn't it be prudent to either now gather up the tax information, or at least place a note in a prominent location to remind you of this and thus get it out of your head. No, these are not day to day worries. These are imaginary conversations, scenarios that reinforce the sense of self (e.g. wanting to be right, proving others wrong). Really nasty. effort must be place elsewhere to push the lever to get this compulsion to notice old thoughts to diminish. Hmm, not sure what you mean. But if that don't appeal to you, there are a myriad of other non-conceptual awareness practices you can do other than classic meditation (which I couldn't do - too restless). I'll have a look at the link. I'm not sure who you are, Karen, but your words seem to resonate with me so far. Glad to have met you. I'm not a big fan of formal meditation either, but I have recently added it to my practice (30 mins in the morning) because it helps me chill out, I like the effect it has on the mind. But for awakening, I think it's too passive. I'm curious what other methods you have used, or that you would recommend. Thanks for responding, Karen, I look forward to your posts in the future.
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 12:42:12 GMT -5
Again, thanks for all the responses so far. Just want to clarify, this has nothing to do with wanting to alleviate suffering or anything of that nature. I have no interest in leading a happier, brighter, or successful life.
This is all in the name of truth. I seek truth and nothing else, and I'll do whatever I have to do to get it.
Loving this forum already.
|
|
|
Post by jasonl on Jan 11, 2011 13:07:16 GMT -5
Well some underlying beliefs I could see perpetuating such thoughts might be,
1-) The belief that the mind is a separate self,
2-) The belief that you actually are the mind, which itself is never anything more than a stream of thinking.
There is actually no one here to seek truth, because what we are already Is Truth. Understanding leads to liberation.
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Jan 11, 2011 14:00:42 GMT -5
That's an interesting point you bring up jasonl. There is no self, and that's been seen. But that's not to say that the mind doesn't get caught up in identification, or that it gives up the belief in self altogether. Even after insight into no-self the sense of self doesn't just fall away completely. But I don't necessarily expect that it will either. But perhaps eventually the mind won't get so caught up with thoughts like "me" "my" or "I" arise.
|
|
judge
Junior Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by judge on Jan 11, 2011 14:05:53 GMT -5
There is no self, and that's been seen. Sound like a former member of RT gang. ;D
|
|