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Post by enigma on Jan 16, 2011 12:33:40 GMT -5
Can we just clarify this some more please? Are you saying that the subconscious and unconscious have the same definition? "This is the intractable nature of unconsciousness which cannot see itself, and which we all express to at least some degree. It's not personal, and yet unconsciousness cannot help but see it that way, since protecting the person is the function of this form of unconsciousness." I agree that the unconscious is impersonal ~ though how can it protect the personal if it is not of it? I say that it is the subconscious that is reading signals from the environment constantly and that these are being processed by the conscious mind. The decision about relativity can, be made in the conscious, though often they are made subconsciously, as the conscious is only necessary for translation and interpretation. I agree that hidden aspects (unhealthy programming) are revealed to us from the sub ~ below ~ conscious in sincere engagements and that this is the beauty of an open and forgiving environment. Unconsciousness is a way of talking about functioning primarily from a subconscious level, meaning unaware of various motivations, projections, distortions of perception, etc. The subconscious has a valid function, which Michael talked about, but it is also used to hide uncomfortable stuff from our conscious awareness, and this function is highly personal. Every conscious thought 'bubbles up' from lower levels of consciousness, which is why thoughts and feelings can seem to 'come out of nowhere'.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 16, 2011 12:41:34 GMT -5
Can we just clarify this some more please? Are you saying that the subconscious and unconscious have the same definition? That's my understanding, the subconscious and the unconscious mind, are one in the same. Depending on the context they're used in, their definition can seem to change. Enigma was using the correct definition. He just didn't use the more common layperson's definition, that being the subconscious. If you re-read the post and substitute subconscious for unconsciousness, it makes perfect sense...
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Post by sharon on Jan 16, 2011 14:12:10 GMT -5
Ok ~ so the 3 of you seem to be in agreement that the sub and unconscious are the same within this context.
So going back to the original nature of this thread ~ 'The Heart Centre - The Still Small Voice' is this the untainted unconscious?
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Post by enigma on Jan 16, 2011 15:12:53 GMT -5
I think that 'voice' takes lots of forms. Seems like what is commonly referred to as 'channeling' fits that term and it ranges from some beautiful wisdom to some fear based nonsense. Maybe it works to look at it as coming from various 'astral' levels of consciousness. The clarity of direct perception might also be considered this 'voice', even though it's just a seeing and doesn't take the form of a voice heard in the head.
I look at Consciousness as having an infinite depth, which at some point is not differentiated or individualized, whereas the subconscious refers to the subconscious content of an individuation.
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mits
Junior Member
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Post by mits on Jan 16, 2011 15:22:25 GMT -5
Ok ~ so the 3 of you seem to be in agreement that the sub and unconscious are the same within this context. So going back to the original nature of this thread ~ 'The Heart Centre - The Still Small Voice' is this the untainted unconscious? I remember once I undertook a shamanic quest or was it a meditation ? This was in the distant past and I asked an question earnestly and heard a "voice." giving guidance. But anyway I asked my spiritual guide back then about this experience and he said "just because you hear some guidance from the astral plane or a person that has passed on" does not mean it's helpful and relevant to your situation." As they may not know what is best for you. Remember at the time it was quite an eye-opener when I heard this.
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Post by enigma on Jan 16, 2011 15:56:01 GMT -5
Yes, it seems there are levels of the astral plane at which there's quite a bit of anger and malevolent mischief. I've had only brief encounters and I'm sure others can speak more clearly about it, but it can sometimes sound very good but be going someplace very bad.
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Post by sharon on Jan 17, 2011 3:08:24 GMT -5
"I look at Consciousness ... "
Could you explain how this actually happens please? This 'I' that is looking at Consciousness must somehow be separate from it, to be able to look at it, yeah?
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mits
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by mits on Jan 17, 2011 17:30:17 GMT -5
"I look at Consciousness ... " Could you explain how this actually happens please? This 'I' that is looking at Consciousness must somehow be separate from it, to be able to look at it, yeah? Actually I used to associate I with "EGO" but there is a witness that seems to observe and seems seperate but it is within. I have come across this during meditation but I don't know whether that witness is the process observer or something beyond what Richard Rose used to talk about.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 17, 2011 19:11:31 GMT -5
"I look at Consciousness ... " Could you explain how this actually happens please? This 'I' that is looking at Consciousness must somehow be separate from it, to be able to look at it, yeah? Sharon: I took E.'s statement to mean "I consider consciousness...." etc. rather than "I look at consciousness...." etc. He can clarify this for himself, but in any case there is no separateness involved, and I don't think that he meant to imply that there is any separateness.
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2011 22:25:27 GMT -5
"I look at Consciousness ... " Could you explain how this actually happens please? This 'I' that is looking at Consciousness must somehow be separate from it, to be able to look at it, yeah? Not separate from, but an appearance to. It is known that you are conscious, yeah? How could this be known unless it was being observed? The observer must be prior to that which is observed, yeah? There is even the awareness that consciousness comes and goes, so apparently something does not come and go, and is aware of this.
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Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2011 22:35:31 GMT -5
"I look at Consciousness ... " Could you explain how this actually happens please? This 'I' that is looking at Consciousness must somehow be separate from it, to be able to look at it, yeah? Sharon: I took E.'s statement to mean "I consider consciousness...." etc. rather than "I look at consciousness...." etc. He can clarify this for himself, but in any case there is no separateness involved, and I don't think that he meant to imply that there is any separateness. Right, it was a way of talking about consciousness rather than describing it's prominent features. Hehe. The implication of the question is interesting in that it equates oneness with invisibility such that if I am consciousness I shouldn't be able to know anything about it, and yet consciousness is the movement of form appearing, changing, coming and going, and so these appearances are quite apparent and can be talked about. I am consciousness, but i am also aware of consciousness.
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Post by sharon on Feb 5, 2011 7:35:24 GMT -5
Sorry, better get me hand-turned broom out on this thread.
There was a fire on when the post was made ~ a fire that is of the indomitable ~ the fuel of it is when the personal is misconstruing what it is actually working with.
Thank you both for your posts, I feel calmer when I can see words that are on the same page even though they are being written by 'different' hands.
The I that has been exploring has been like a cosmic star in the brain that only exists because of the light of the Sun. It had a strong male will that was conditioned/programmed by the environment to protect the innocence of the female. This innocence can only respond to real and genuine kindness. It was honed by the experience of some men that wish to appear as kind and yet when their boat is kicked their fear of woman reveals itself.
The rightful disappearance of this star feels completely natural and is known to be of the Sun's experience.
"I am consciousness, but i am also aware of consciousness."
Yes I understand this, it has also been called the universal feedback loop, that also makes sense here.
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