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Post by metapleroma on Jan 11, 2011 5:49:26 GMT -5
"We should never, even under the worst circumstances, allow a negative thought to penetrate our soul.
The person, who, under all circumstances, is inclined to have positive thoughts, will always be a winner;
his life will be a constant festivity, since it is constantly based on positive thinking."
(Priestmonk Christodoulos Aggeloglou, Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain Mount Athos, Greece, 1998, p. 31).
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Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 9:45:39 GMT -5
Just ask Louise Hay, she's made a fortune off this quote.
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Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 10:33:15 GMT -5
You called? Hehe. I say it's critical to not misplace yourself, as though you were the tree in your backyard trying to figure out how you're going to mow the lawn. There simply isn't any solution from that perspective and more delusions are inevitable. You are not thoughts. You see thoughts. You're talking about thoughts that you see, so you can't BE the thoughts. You're obviously watching the thoughts. As the one who is aware of thoughts, where is the dilemma about thoughts trying to do something? You are the one watching the body grow old and die. How can you be the one growing old and dying? Is there really an enigma here? almost forgot .. Great answer enigma, you just made my favorites list  Last night I read therealfake's post, and had hoped to craft some kind of a reply this morning. Fortunately you bailed me out, and your insightful words far exceeded anything I would have come up with. People should know .. I'm a little odd. Never mal-intentioned, but I often lack clarity with my words. |
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Post by therealfake on Jan 11, 2011 12:42:58 GMT -5
You called? Hehe. I say it's critical to not misplace yourself, as though you were the tree in your backyard trying to figure out how you're going to mow the lawn. There simply isn't any solution from that perspective and more delusions are inevitable. You are not thoughts. You see thoughts. You're talking about thoughts that you see, so you can't BE the thoughts. You're obviously watching the thoughts. As the one who is aware of thoughts, where is the dilemma about thoughts trying to do something? You are the one watching the body grow old and die. How can you be the one growing old and dying? Is there really an enigma here? almost forgot .. Great answer enigma, you just made my favorites list Last night I read therealfake's post, and had hoped to craft some kind of a reply this morning. Fortunately you bailed me out, and your insightful words far exceeded anything I would have come up with. People should know .. I'm a little odd. Never mal-intentioned, but I often lack clarity with my words. It's not to late to craft something, because I'm going to play the devils advocate on this taken for granted premise. And yes, the I that I am, that is the "awareness" is a premise or thought that comes from the mind. It is often said that anything that comes from the mind is an illusion. I know the world from direct experience. What I see is matter or energy in different forms, sizes and colors. Experience comes from consciousness which is the process of awareness and the objects of awareness. If I was simply the awareness, that would have been my state before the big bang, with nothing to observe in the universe. Just emptiness and space, no experiences of any kind. After the big bang, came energy and matter,which became observable by the awareness. I could easily conclude that I am in fact not the awareness, but the matter and energy of the entire universe, for with out me, there would be no universe and no experience. This premise actually relates directly to the experience that I see happening in front of my eyes. Get rid of the energy and matter and there is nothingness. Get rid of the awareness and there is still energy and matter but it is not recognizable. |
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Post by popee on Jan 11, 2011 15:46:09 GMT -5
"It's not to late to craft something ..."
I don't mind trying, but this type of conversation is really out of my league. I am not well versed in spiritual theory, I don't meditate, never had a guru, or even spent much time reading about it. But, for what its worth, I consider myself intently spiritual (although I'm not crazy about that word). I don't get all bogged down with pondering who the I in I am is, or what Awareness is. It just Is, I guess.
But I did begin a serious examination of myself about a year ago, and the results have been quite real. I have a better understanding of my mind/ego, I learned to stop fighting with it, to just Be. For the most part, I am quite content, my feelings of dis-satisfaction are less and less, and I accept that each moment is perfect exactly as it is.
I suspect there is a realm of form which our bodies reside in, and a realm of the formless, which most of us here would like to Understand better. However I'm fairly convinced that words won't get me there, but something has happened to me since I began this journey, I just have no way of explaining it.
I started subtracting things from my life which I considered to be unreal. I didn't say to myself, "go away unwanted behavior", but just casually stepped back from them, as they arose. Over time, there was no need to "step back" any more, because the behavior simply was no longer there. But now I find, I am losing all interest in nearly everything I know, including people, even relatives. I am becoming disinterested in form, and labels. I have no opinions.
But that is merely a general direction I seem to be moving in. I am still back and forth. I recently started a thread on the economy, so there are still things in my life that have not yet fallen away. I'm still reading and writing on this website, one day I imagine that will have to go away as well.
Sorry if this is confusing. I tried.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 11, 2011 16:37:02 GMT -5
It's not confusing at all. It's an honest portrayal of what is happening in this moment, in your life, in this visible light, you call reality. Your dropping away of things, thoughts and people is do to the great peace you are feeling in simply being. This moment when fully realized, is complete and perfect. Who needs anything else. To intellectualize it is simply a game I play for the mind. Sometimes I get bored with perfection and like to stir up trouble for old times sake, then back to perfection. |
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mits
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by mits on Jan 11, 2011 17:55:21 GMT -5
Well I came across this site: kundalini-teacher.com/guidance/heart.php Can anyone from personal experiences agree with what is written on the website? Well you know if everything is perfect; everything is as it should be but in my instance when I start worrying about how one will pay the rent, the bills that is due at the end of the month and the fact that one is between jobs that state of mind is completly foreign to one. I mean that state of mind just dissappears. However I know what your trying to say though... |
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Post by enigma on Jan 11, 2011 23:22:46 GMT -5
"We should never, even under the worst circumstances, allow a negative thought to penetrate our soul. The person, who, under all circumstances, is inclined to have positive thoughts, will always be a winner; his life will be a constant festivity, since it is constantly based on positive thinking." (Priestmonk Christodoulos Aggeloglou, Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain Mount Athos, Greece, 1998, p. 31). How does the positive thinker know his thoughts are positive? As opposed to what? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 11, 2011 23:40:07 GMT -5
almost forgot .. Great answer enigma, you just made my favorites list Last night I read therealfake's post, and had hoped to craft some kind of a reply this morning. Fortunately you bailed me out, and your insightful words far exceeded anything I would have come up with. People should know .. I'm a little odd. Never mal-intentioned, but I often lack clarity with my words. It's not to late to craft something, because I'm going to play the devils advocate on this taken for granted premise. And yes, the I that I am, that is the "awareness" is a premise or thought that comes from the mind. It is often said that anything that comes from the mind is an illusion. If it is a premise that comes from mind, then ignore it. I didn't say you are awareness, so I'm not inclined to defend that statement. What I said is that you aren't what you are watching. I don't understand. You conclude that, since without you, nothing you observe could exist, therefore you are the stuff that you observe?? How do you know there is still energy and matter without awareness? This is another preminse that comes from mind. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 11, 2011 23:53:04 GMT -5
"It's not to late to craft something ..."I don't mind trying, but this type of conversation is really out of my league. I am not well versed in spiritual theory, I don't meditate, never had a guru, or even spent much time reading about it. But, for what its worth, I consider myself intently spiritual (although I'm not crazy about that word). I don't get all bogged down with pondering who the I in I am is, or what Awareness is. It just Is, I guess. But I did begin a serious examination of myself about a year ago, and the results have been quite real. I have a better understanding of my mind/ego, I learned to stop fighting with it, to just Be. For the most part, I am quite content, my feelings of dis-satisfaction are less and less, and I accept that each moment is perfect exactly as it is. I suspect there is a realm of form which our bodies reside in, and a realm of the formless, which most of us here would like to Understand better. How could there be a realm of the formless, and how could there be anything to understand about it? I very much identify with that process. In continually looking to see what is true, the interest in the illusion fades. The interest was fed by the belief that it was valid, useful, true. The only spiritual practice I've ever had, which is not even a practice, is noticing what is true and what is not. Turns out the 'true box' is empty. (GASP!) |
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Post by metapleroma on Jan 12, 2011 6:00:28 GMT -5
"We should never, even under the worst circumstances, allow a negative thought to penetrate our soul. The person, who, under all circumstances, is inclined to have positive thoughts, will always be a winner; his life will be a constant festivity, since it is constantly based on positive thinking." (Priestmonk Christodoulos Aggeloglou, Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain Mount Athos, Greece, 1998, p. 31). How does the positive thinker know his thoughts are positive? As opposed to what? It does not say anything about a positive thinker here enigma, it just says for one to be inclined, toward positive thoughts or positive thinking, versus, negativity. One can remain neutral, positive or negative in life's thinking patterns and how one processes experience. One knows when his/her thoughts are negative or positive as one experiences the analogous emotions. "The Work teaches that negative emotions must gradually be eliminated. The Work says that as long as we enjoy chiefly negative emotions that we are cut off from all contact with Higher Centers. I assure you that at a certain stage of the Work even a moment's indulgence of negative emotion towards others will cause you to lose force and even destroy—for the time being—everything that you aimed at in the Work-sense." On Negative Emotions Maurice Nicoll www.gurdjieffwork.com/site/index.asp?page=110407&DL=243 |
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Post by metapleroma on Jan 12, 2011 6:25:02 GMT -5
Well I was recently reading: A Transpersonal Approach to the Severely Disharmonized Child on searchwithin.org and the author says that if you Dwell in the Heart on the right side of the chest—between the two nipples, two digits to the right of center. That if you Listen with humbleness, with openness, and you will "feel" the still, small voice within and the answers will be there. My question is regarding this: Does this really work and when the author says feel what does he mean by this? I imagine he is implying that the answers are felt. If you can hear the Still Small Voice within how can you be sure it is that and not just internal dialogue? Is there a way to discern it? Has any-one had any personal experiences with this? Am not familiar with the site, but here is something that may be of value to you. The main idea, in mystical Christianity and in some Eastern teachings such as the Tao, stress 'thinking with the heart'. "The physical heart does have consciousness. Various religions have talked about the sacred heart or the compassionate heart, which when you start to open up the heart, you connect with the true self. This inner voice within will start to direct you and actually function as your thinking process. This is universal consciousness or the compassionate heart." See also Buddhism. The upper mind is used for observation, witnessing the feelings, but learning to think with the heart is key. In mystical Christianity, the aim is for the head to fall into the heart region. "Prayer is the laying aside of thoughts." The Philokalia similar in Buddhism, meditation is laying aside thoughts. taken from the book 'Living in the Tao' by Mantak Chia Intellect (nous): the highest faculty in man, through which - provided it is purified - he knows God or the inner essences or principles of created things by means of direct apprehension or spiritual perception. Unlike the dianoia or reason, from which it must be carefully distinguished, the intellect does not function by formulating abstract concepts and then arguing on this basis to a conclusion reached through deductive reasoning, but it understands divine truth by means of immediate experience, intuition or 'simple cognition.' The intellect dwells in the 'depths of the soul'; it constitutes the innermost aspect of the heart. The intellect is the organ of contemplation, the 'eye of the heart.' (Makarian Homilies). The Philokalia Volume IV I wish you a great journey Mits in finding the essence of these teachings within yourself. You ask the right questions, but this has to be experienced by you alone and then you can help others on the path. In the end, we are our own best guides if anyone tells you differently, they are lying. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." This book is very helpful. A Path with Heart: A Guide Through the Perils and Promises of Spiritual Life by Jack Kornfield www.amazon.com/Path-Heart-Through-Promises-Spiritual/dp/0553372114/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b |
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Post by popee on Jan 12, 2011 10:06:59 GMT -5
enigma wrote: "How could there be a realm of the formless, and how could there be anything to understand about it?" Very interesting question. No way I can answer it. (and yet we try ) Do you conclude that form is all there is? And yet even form isn't really form - nothing rests, everything is changing, everything is in the process of becoming. Who truly understands that? |
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Post by karen on Jan 12, 2011 12:39:01 GMT -5
popee, why would questioning the belief in "the formless" mean one believes in form? I'm just curious how you draw this conclusion.
Thanks!
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Post by therealfake on Jan 12, 2011 12:59:54 GMT -5
It's not to late to craft something, because I'm going to play the devils advocate on this taken for granted premise. And yes, the I that I am, that is the "awareness" is a premise or thought that comes from the mind. It is often said that anything that comes from the mind is an illusion. If it is a premise that comes from mind, then ignore it. I didn't say you are awareness, so I'm not inclined to defend that statement. What I said is that you aren't what you are watching. I don't understand. You conclude that, since without you, nothing you observe could exist, therefore you are the stuff that you observe?? How do you know there is still energy and matter without awareness? This is another preminse that comes from mind. Oh, that's easy, the universe has been estimated to be almost 14 billion years old. That means that it's been around a lot longer than the relatively new phenomena of human awareness, time wise. That's the thing about energy/matter, it's verifiable, where as awareness is not. I can say that the concept of energy/matter comes from the mind and is an illusion, but somehow that doesn't ring true. |
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