lexi
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by lexi on Dec 18, 2010 16:13:44 GMT -5
Enigma- Then talk to me about what Love is, in your own words please. Say you are sorry for not being a pal to me.
For not giving me some space and understanding.
For not giving me a pm saying, "what's up" even.
For not supporting me when I have supported you.Yes, this is the concept of personal love; a love with expectations, demands. A love that feeds the imaginary egoic identity and hates when it becomes hungry. This has nothing to do with Love. And what you have written does? It was a test, you failed. Goodbye Phil. You know, I get Gem now.
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Post by enigma on Dec 18, 2010 16:32:58 GMT -5
Yes, this is the concept of personal love; a love with expectations, demands. A love that feeds the imaginary egoic identity and hates when it becomes hungry. This has nothing to do with Love. And what you have written does? It was a test, you failed. Goodbye Phil. You know, I get Gem now. I've not written anything to you about Love. What would be the point while you focus on your demands to be loved according to your perceived needs? How can you imagine that what you are in your essential nature would be so childish and self centered.
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 18, 2010 21:08:44 GMT -5
Gosh if I didn't no better and I don't I would think a bit of romance is in the air? ;D
Michael
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Post by enigma on Dec 18, 2010 21:14:15 GMT -5
---Sniff sniff.......-----
Smells like abused cow carcass to me. Hehe.
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 18, 2010 21:49:17 GMT -5
Well a lone wolf may find the smell captivating !
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Post by enigma on Dec 19, 2010 0:37:39 GMT -5
---- Looking around frantically for the air freshener.....-----
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2010 1:25:32 GMT -5
Like Michael, I smell romance, but I'm still high from too much Khalua, wine, and dancing. What do I know? Keep us posted. LOL
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Post by enigma on Dec 19, 2010 1:48:52 GMT -5
Like Michael, I smell romance, but I'm still high from too much Khalua, wine, and dancing. What do I know? Keep us posted. LOL Okay, yous guys are starting to scare me now.
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Post by angela on Dec 19, 2010 12:12:40 GMT -5
this conversations is interesting to stop by in the middle of and read.
i'm not sure we're coming at it from the correct standpoint, any of us, when we discuss and decide how to be or not be. that's sort of saying that we're in the drivers seat, right? and if truth shows us anything, it shows us that we're not doing the driving.
i used to have a very extreme identity as an environmentalist, a vegetarian, one devoted to radical simplicity etc.... it was very, very strong in me. i even had a strong identity as the "one who loved so deeply".... and then at some point it became clear that me, standing over here, loving that, which is over there.... was nowhere close to the unity that my deepest heart knew was fundamental to the universe.
when truth began to roll in me things became clear very quickly. caregiving may take place, these hands and this body may engage in caregiving behaviors that tend to life on this planet... but it is not ME doing the care. there is no me, doing anything. my mind telling me that i am the one doing the care, and building an identity on weather or not i participate (ie: identity as a caring person, or identity as a rebel nihilist) is false.
deciding how to be, or who to be, or arguing your point about which is right, seems to sort of miss the point. letting life go how it goes is the key.
do we need to relate to ourselves as a caregiver in order for the body to attend to caregiving activites? i don't find that to be true in my life.
do we have to see that something is wrong in order to tend to the life around us when it expressess itself as suffering? i don't find that to be true in my life either.
the idea called caregiver, vegetarian, animal lover and the identities i held onto where i thought things were "wrong" turned out to be not entirely useful when it came to the actual expression of Love as it rolls through. in many ways, it suffocated it.
just my two cents.
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Post by enigma on Dec 19, 2010 13:41:01 GMT -5
Thanks for your financial contribution, Angela. Yes, that's what some of us have been trying to say.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2010 13:57:00 GMT -5
Ditto!
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Post by joan on Dec 19, 2010 16:31:51 GMT -5
this conversations is interesting to stop by in the middle of and read. i'm not sure we're coming at it from the correct standpoint, any of us, when we discuss and decide how to be or not be. that's sort of saying that we're in the drivers seat, right? and if truth shows us anything, it shows us that we're not doing the driving. i used to have a very extreme identity as an environmentalist, a vegetarian, one devoted to radical simplicity etc.... it was very, very strong in me. i even had a strong identity as the "one who loved so deeply".... and then at some point it became clear that me, standing over here, loving that, which is over there.... was nowhere close to the unity that my deepest heart knew was fundamental to the universe. when truth began to roll in me things became clear very quickly. caregiving may take place, these hands and this body may engage in caregiving behaviors that tend to life on this planet... but it is not ME doing the care. there is no me, doing anything. my mind telling me that i am the one doing the care, and building an identity on weather or not i participate (ie: identity as a caring person, or identity as a rebel nihilist) is false. deciding how to be, or who to be, or arguing your point about which is right, seems to sort of miss the point. letting life go how it goes is the key. do we need to relate to ourselves as a caregiver in order for the body to attend to caregiving activites? i don't find that to be true in my life. do we have to see that something is wrong in order to tend to the life around us when it expressess itself as suffering? i don't find that to be true in my life either. the idea called caregiver, vegetarian, animal lover and the identities i held onto where i thought things were "wrong" turned out to be not entirely useful when it came to the actual expression of Love as it rolls through. in many ways, it suffocated it. just my two cents. Love this response, angela. You say things in a much more gentle and inoffensive way.
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Post by therealfake on Dec 19, 2010 18:12:23 GMT -5
Sometimes, a person just isn't ready for the truth.
Masters have said this before, that the world is filled with books, Cd's, libraries, video's, spiritual teachers, sages etc, etc and the awakening process is still imperceptible.
No matter how many times I remind myself, that I am not this, it still hurts, as the pain is real and the physiological suffering is felt in the body.
When an unawakened person like myself, is told that what I am feeling is an illusion and not real, (not presuming that's what's happening in this discussion) I get the sense that I've been given a coping mechanism, take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.
The truth isn't suddenly going to dawn on me and life will be wonderful. (Although it could)
The greatest teachers than, must be the ones that demonstrate the greatest compassion, and the greatest love. For it is this act alone, which can dispel the fog which I find myself in, a sort of communion with another.
People have said that they didn't even have to speak to Rammana, that one could simply feel the love reverberating in themselves from his mere presence.
I like to believe that it's all one big circle and that what we give, we receive.
I can only experience unconditional love by giving it away to all my brothers and sisters.
I can't remember which master said, "Don't know who we are and give it all away"
Seems appropriate this time of the year.
Cheers
TRF
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2010 19:54:08 GMT -5
TRF: You wrote, "No matter how many times I remind myself, that I am not this, it still hurts, as the pain is real and the physiological suffering is felt in the body."
If you are referring to physical pain, no one is suggesting that that isn't real, but there is a difference between the direct experience of physical pain and the kind of suffering that results from unnecessary or erroneous thoughts. As a trivial example, if I hit my finger accidentally with a hammer, the body will experience momentary pain. This is real. If I then think, "This shouldn't have happened," that thought is in direct conflict with the actual, because it did happen. If I think, "Hitting myself proves that I'm a clumsy person," that thought is an incorrect extrapolation of the actual and may contribute to a negative self-image that causes psychic suffering. By staying focused on the actual, however, the imaginary gradually loses its power and is eventually recognized to be imaginary.
As Angela (above) and others have pointed out, the path of non-duality is a path of dis-identification wherein the mind is disregarded (except for its use as a personal computer). The average person thinks, "I am a woman, a wife, a mother, a doctor, an artist, an environmentalist, a vegan, a democrat, a liberal, etc" (the list is often endless), but these are all abstractions; they are all products of imagination. Who and what a person IS, in truth, is unimaginable, but in order to realize that unimaginable truth, attention must be shifted from thoughts to what is actual. Seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting, and attending without intellectual reflection or projection is the way to freedom. What do the eyes see? Don't name it or think about it; just look. What does the body feel? Don't name it or think about it; just feel. In the absence of thoughts the Absolute, alone, is what becomes Self-evident.
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Post by therealfake on Dec 19, 2010 21:01:47 GMT -5
Of course what you say is true, but if you experience guilt for instance and it is as you say an "unnecessary or erroneous thought", it is still felt in the body.
Along with seeing, smelling, tasting, etc, etc, guilt arises, depression arises, sadness arises, hate arises, jealousy arises, greed arises, revenge arises.
We don't ask for these feelings to arise but they do.
Anyone can be self aware when things are good. It takes a real master to do it in the midst of a mind and body gripping depression.
In those circumstances, I think a person would choose "physical pain" over psychological pain any day, I know I would.
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