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Post by sherry on Dec 8, 2010 23:26:03 GMT -5
A friend shared this with me today and I find it incredibly succinct and beautiful:
The True Meditation: By Dr. Harsh K. Luthar Posted by: Harsha • Jan 24th, 2009
What is spiritual wisdom other than being gentle and easy with oneself and others in awareness? Gain and loss, pain and pleasure, joy and sorrow, are threads of life. Life lived in awareness is the only meditation.
Our talents and strengths do not raise us above anyone. Our shortcomings do not diminish our original nature. That is just how it is. Sages see action and inaction, speech and silence to be the same. So there is no need to struggle. To simply be aware of oneself as pure and clear being is the true meditation.
The steadiness of awareness and balance is a gift of grace. It is the blessing of love that springs forth from the heart of sages. In the company of good and wise people who know the nature of reality, the ego gradually loses its hold and pure awareness reveals itself as the eternal presence. That is the real meditation.
Namaste
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Post by nobody on Dec 23, 2010 1:20:00 GMT -5
As for meditation and its contribution to awakening, most spiritual teachers that I have met have spent a fair amount of time being non-conceptually aware. It is a primary practice in Zen and Tibetan Buddhism as well as in the contemplative traditions of Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Sufism. Many Advaita teachers are contemptuous of meditation (for various reasons, both legitimate and illegitimate) Yeah that's just it. Some say to meditate, others say not to meditate. Of those that I know of that have awakened, the actual moment of awakening did not take place during meditation (but those are just the ones that I know). Of course, that's not to say that meditation didn't play a role in the awakening. Both Adyashanti and Jed McKenna both say think for yourself and figure out what's true. Both seem to advocate a meditative syle of writing (aka spiritual autolysis). As far as Adyashanti goes, I find that really interesting considering his background in Zen. It seems to me the one thing that most schools or practices have in common is the idea that the stripping away of the ego the key. In fact, I think I can say with confidence that whatever seems to be the most effective at dissolving the ego is probably the best route. I guess, the question is, what is the most effective and easiest way to dissolve the ego? What works? Meditation, writing, mindfulness, etc (or is there something else)? Of course, one could combine all techniques and practices, but it wouldn't be the most time-efficient. And would be like flailing around in the dark. My concern is what I see with the hardcore meditators that have been doing this stuff for 10-25 years and are still not awake. I mean, what is it that these guys are doing wrong? And yes loui, I've heard that we are already awakened, unfortunately that does not satisfy my curiosity. Some know the truth, and others don't. That's the difference. I want to know the truth.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 23, 2010 12:54:49 GMT -5
Nobody: What are hard-core meditators doing wrong if they haven't awakened after twenty-years? Well, maybe they're constantly checking on the state of their progress. LOL. Or, maybe they're feeling proud of their dedication to practice (the "look at me, I'm special" syndrome). Or, maybe they're full of "oughts" and "shoulds" about it. Or, maybe they're sitting there thinking instead of being non-conceptually aware. Or, maybe they only keep their attention focused on "what is" while sitting, and the moment they get up from the mat they shift their attention back to thoughts. Who knows?
Ironically, our ordinary everyday life is the way and the truth, but the problem is that most of us are looking for something else (usually something spectacular) because we spend most of our time reflecting (separating ourselves, psychologically, from what is happening). What we are is "what is," but we imagine that we are separate individuals operating within a space-time continuum.
I have a good friend who became enlightened who never did any formal meditation. That is, he never sat cross-legged and watched his breath or any of the other exercises associated with the usual idea of meditation. However, he was totally consumed by the need to experience God directly, and he spent a huge amount of time contemplating that issue and questioning the nature of reality. It became the most important thing in his life and he was willing to do anything to find the truth. He reached a point where he finally gave up and prayed to God, asking for help. In effect, he said to God, "I'm not capable of finding the truth on my own, so I'm asking you for help." Shortly thereafter, he had a mind-blowing cosmic-consciousness experience. It took another ten years before the rest of his questions were answered and his search finally came to an end. Even though he never pursued any kind of formal meditation his desperate need to find the truth stopped his mind, and that is what led to his initial breakthrough.
Imagine this scenario: a guy goes to a sage and asks how to find the truth. The sage tells him that his ordinary life IS the truth. The guy responds that he doesn't understand. The sage then says, "Okay. Here is what I want you to do. I want you to go about your daily activities with 100% attentiveness. If you need to do the dishes, put all of your attention upon doing the dishes. When you are getting dressed, put all of your attention upon getting dressed. Stop reflecting, and simply do whatever needs to be done in the immediate moment. Live your life like a little child." The guy asks, "Great! How long will I need to do this?" The sage responds, "Forever." The guy says, "That's crazy. How will that help me understand the truth?" The sage responds, "The only thing you need to understand is that there is nothing to understand. Currently your mind is babbling so much about who you think you are and what you think you need to understand that the truth in front of your eyes remains unseen." The guy goes away deeply disappointed that the sage was unwilling to tell him the secret of finding the truth. LOL
IOW, who we THINK we are will never find the truth because who we THINK we are is an idea, only. It is THAT IDEA that makes us THINK the truth is something other than THIS (typing on a computer or reading words on a computer screen). THAT IDEA keeps us running in circles. Meditation is one way of stopping the mind by focusing attention upon some activity, such as breathing. For many people it stops the habit of reflecting long enough for the truth to be seen. One of the reasons I like to distinguish between formal and informal meditation is that informal meditation (non-conceptual awareness throughout the day) is probably more important than the formal kind.
A woman once said to Gangaji, "When I'm here with you on a retreat attending satsang I don't have any problems, and I feel very unified, peaceful, and connected. But when I leave and go back to work, everything falls apart." Gangaji responded, "In that case you must discover what is different between what you are doing while you are here and what you are doing when you go back to work."
Someone can be very peaceful and connected while sitting in formal meditation, but sooner or later we have to get up off the mat and go back to work and family and all of our other everyday activities. What is the difference between what our mind is doing on the mat and what our mind is doing every day?
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Post by therealfake on Dec 23, 2010 14:08:39 GMT -5
As for meditation and its contribution to awakening, most spiritual teachers that I have met have spent a fair amount of time being non-conceptually aware. It is a primary practice in Zen and Tibetan Buddhism as well as in the contemplative traditions of Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Sufism. Many Advaita teachers are contemptuous of meditation (for various reasons, both legitimate and illegitimate) Yeah that's just it. Some say to meditate, others say not to meditate. Of those that I know of that have awakened, the actual moment of awakening did not take place during meditation (but those are just the ones that I know). Of course, that's not to say that meditation didn't play a role in the awakening. Both Adyashanti and Jed McKenna both say think for yourself and figure out what's true. Both seem to advocate a meditative syle of writing (aka spiritual autolysis). As far as Adyashanti goes, I find that really interesting considering his background in Zen. It seems to me the one thing that most schools or practices have in common is the idea that the stripping away of the ego the key. In fact, I think I can say with confidence that whatever seems to be the most effective at dissolving the ego is probably the best route. I guess, the question is, what is the most effective and easiest way to dissolve the ego? What works? Meditation, writing, mindfulness, etc (or is there something else)? Of course, one could combine all techniques and practices, but it wouldn't be the most time-efficient. And would be like flailing around in the dark. My concern is what I see with the hardcore meditators that have been doing this stuff for 10-25 years and are still not awake. I mean, what is it that these guys are doing wrong? And yes loui, I've heard that we are already awakened, unfortunately that does not satisfy my curiosity. Some know the truth, and others don't. That's the difference. I want to know the truth. Hi Nobody, If anyone tells you that they "know" the truth, you can be certain that they don't. No one "knows" the truth. To know it, is to phenomenalize it. The truth is not a phenomena. All this spiritual stuff is only a mirror for the eternal to recognize itself. What I have learned, is to be happy with "not knowing" the truth. You can only "be" the truth and that's all the understanding you need to know. You are a "human being", everything else is just information. Of course a mind that wants an answer, will never be satisfied with this response. TRF
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Post by zendancer on Dec 23, 2010 15:30:30 GMT -5
TRF: You wrote to Nobody, "You are a human being." Whoa! I'd hate to think that he's THAT limited. LOL
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Post by nobody on Dec 23, 2010 15:45:45 GMT -5
ZD, thanks for the elaborate response. Much appreciated. I'm really beginning to like this forum, there seems to be a wealth of knowledge and experience here. I'm surprised that you didn't comment on what I said about ego. Iris talked a little bit about ego dissolution, do you not share the same view in that ego is the main obstruction to truth? In what I've read about Zen and Buddhism thus far there's been little to no talk about the ego obstruction in the context of awakening. Although maybe that's what Dependent Origination is getting at (I find a lot of Buddhism very confusing). It became the most important thing in his life and he was willing to do anything to find the truth. Of the accounts that I've read, that deep yearning for truth seems to be a great commonality among many who've awakened. In other words, it's not for peace or happiness but a game of truth. For me it's almost maddening. I have no idea if awakening would actually benefit me, nor do I care, but nothing else seems important than truth. IOW, who we THINK we are will never find the truth because who we THINK we are is an idea, only. It is THAT IDEA that makes us THINK the truth is something other than THIS (typing on a computer or reading words on a computer screen). THAT IDEA keeps us running in circles. This was one of my realizations shortly after insight to no-self earlier this year. I found that once I stopped expecting an outcome or result, I would get results. But even knowing this, it's easy to slip back into that frantic state where I get impatient and start seeking again when I feel like I'm getting behind or not progressing at the rate that I'd like (of course, that's just ego). I read a book recently called the Compass of Zen (my first look at Buddhism actually) and one of the things it stresses is keeping a "don't know" mind. Similarly, Jed says, "Act, but don't reflect on the fruit of the act". I think what they are saying here is intended to open the mind up to what's here and how rather than operating from a place of belief and expectation, to keep one out of this cycle of endless seeking. One of the reasons I like to distinguish between formal and informal meditation is that informal meditation (non-conceptual awareness throughout the day) is probably more important than the formal kind. Wow. Now that I wasn't expecting to hear. Believe it or not one of the things I got out of your post here is to learn to trust my instincts more. I've done very little formal meditation, but I do stay mindful throughout my day to day activities. I actually enjoy watching thought when I go on walks and when I have moments of time to myself. That being said, I don't think I'll rule out formal meditation altogether. I think it may be a good thing for me as it might help me with my issues of patience. I need to learn to be still and not so anxious.
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Post by therealfake on Dec 23, 2010 15:46:15 GMT -5
Lol, I should have said human/BEING, emphasizing the "Being"... ...and quite right, the human part of us is very limited. Thanks for pointing that out... TRF
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Post by nobody on Dec 23, 2010 16:18:56 GMT -5
TRF said, "What I have learned, is to be happy with "not knowing" the truth. You can only "be" the truth and that's all the understanding you need to know."
Truth is not is not a conceptual understanding. So that not-knowing will be there and there's not a d**n thing that can be done about it.
But I think that yearning for truth is a good thing. That is, if one is able to keep it under control so that it doesn't send you on a wild goose chase (endless seeking).
As far as understanding goes, the less you understand the better. Understanding is nothing more than concepts and ideas that obstruct the truth. Dumb is good.
** Edit:
P.S. Thanks for the comments TRF
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 23, 2010 17:46:52 GMT -5
Interesting.. My answer This is this and That is that The end
Michael
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Post by zendancer on Dec 23, 2010 21:00:25 GMT -5
Nobody: I didn't comment about ego because from my perspective there is no such thing. The word "ego" represents an idea, "selfhood," which represents an illusion, so it can't present an obstruction of the truth. "You" can't get rid of "you" because there isn't any "you" to begin with. LOL.
Now, let's back up a moment and talk about knowing and understanding. For purposes of conversation and pointing we can indentify two kinds of knowing and understanding. One kind comes through the intellect and is trivial; the other kind comes through the body and is profound. The first is indirect and the second is direct. When we talk about not-knowing, we are talking about not-knowing through the mind.
If we sit down and focus our attention upon the body's breathing, we are not thinking, reflecting, or fantasizing; there is simply observing. In that process there is no separate observer. The idea that there is a separate observer only arises when we imagine such a thing. IOW, "I" arise as an observing entity only when I imagine that I am an observing entity. If I do not imagine myself, I cease to exist (as something separate from the process of reality). Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am." To be more accurate he should have said, "When I think, I conjure up the idea that I am something separate from the rest of reality." But what if we don't think or imagine? Then, poof! The separate observer disappears.
When we first sit down and begin doing some meditative practice, such as watching the breath, we imagine that there we are a separate entity doing something, but if we put total attention upon the process of breathing, selfhood disappears. It only reappears when we reflect and once again imagine that reality is divided into two imaginary states. The reason that selfhood feels so real is that we've practiced imagining it so long and we haven't yet seen the uselessness of continuing that charade.
If we focus upon the breathing process with total attentiveness, to such a degree that thinking totally stops, we are likely to fall into a state of samadhi, a unity-conscious state of mind. In that state there is pure awareness, but selfhood is not present. All reflectivity will have ceased. If nothing else, this state will show us that pure awareness is possible without there being a separate observer.
The same thing is possible during everyday activities. If we become totally absorbed in an activity, then time, space, and selfhood all disappear. This is a big clue pointing to the fact that all of these "things" are imaginary. They only appear to exist when we imagine them. If we stop imagining them, they are nowhere to be found.
This is why I emphasize the importance of informal non-conceptual awareness. You are already fortunate that you can watch thoughts appear and disappear without jumping on board. Many people have such busy minds that they can't yet do this. If you simply watch thoughts without getting attached to them or believing them, and if you simply watch what is happening throughout the day, without imagining what you are seeing, then sooner or later the illusion of self and other is sure to collapse. There is no need to do anything about ego; the sense of selfhood will simply fall away as a result of sustained presence.
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Post by enigma on Dec 23, 2010 21:41:43 GMT -5
Truth is not is not a conceptual understanding. So that not-knowing will be there and there's not a d**n thing that can be done about it. As far as understanding goes, the less you understand the better. Understanding is nothing more than concepts and ideas that obstruct the truth. Dumb is good. I do 'understand' what you're saying in that conceptual beliefs are serious obstructions. However, sometimes clarity is thrown out with the dirty bath water. What often happens is that questions are asked and a contextual expansion happens. Typically, one belief is seen though and falls away, followed by another conclusion and more questions that lie within a larger context. This can potentially go on for a very long time, but it doesn't have to. It's a matter of intention. Many will try to steer folks away from this process because it can become a trap. It can become comfy thinking we're learning stuff that's true or getting closer to the ultimate Truth. However, I encourage this process of contemplation, in particular for those who are inclined to work things out and have a good mind that is somewhat organized. The idea that all thinking or contemplating or questioning should be abandoned is only appropriate for those who have done their inquiry and aren't able to recognize that it's time to come full stop. If there isn't clarity, and in particular if unconscious material continues to motivate, it's not time to stop or try to realize Truth, which will only result, at best, in a temporary mind state. Mind will bring you back to finish the job. It's important to recognize what is happening in this exploration. It is not bringing one closer to some conceptual Truth but it is releasing more limiting contextual understandings for more expanded ones. The larger the context, the more difficult it is for mind to fully grasp, and the less personal benefit there is in the understanding, and so there is a release of attachment to belief, including the self and it's supposed volition and control. Mind cannot bring about a realization of Truth but it doesn't have to. The problem is not Truth realization but rather distraction. The distraction must be dealt with.
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