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Post by enigma on Dec 3, 2010 23:39:26 GMT -5
Taking a break from packing it's a wild thing when you are going to the mountains and need to eat and survie for 10 days.I hope I have everything I need. This is such a good thread hard to keep my eyes off it. "Even that notion collapses.." Everything is a lie or collapses when it comes from a "person" The" person" was created by the mind using a process of identity which gives to us the idea we are people and separate. This is very much like creating a robot with AI. But there is a difference that is worlds apart from any kind of robot now or in the future. Somethings can become much too complicated to understand by words which come from our brain which comes from the mind. The difference is in These "robot" (being a person as is called) the absolute has planted a seed of awareness. It's the reason why we have a desire to find out who we are, where we came from, etc. Saying a "person" does not exist and is a illusion is no help at all on the journey home. In the absolute tense yes it's true but this is only realized by very few that have a body/mind. The whole reason for our creation by the absolute is for going back home. The reason why the absolute has done this is many but one reason is the absolute want to experience everyman's journey this is why the seed of awareness was planted. It's just not possible the way a person is programed to just make a shortcut to the Absolute without the journey if it was there would be no point of the exercise. The absolute provided many different ways to get home. One way is being still, be still and know God, I am what I am, another way is through love in yoga it's Bhaki yoga and there are others. But this way of a janni(knowledge) involves every single emotion, thoughts , feelings everything that makes up a "person" and most people would never want this as they are tied to much to the identity. What most people on a spiritual path want is both the enjoyment of being a "person" and the journey completed.(cake and eat it too) So what I just wrote is very raw and rough but will give you a sense of what s happening when a "person" commits to and opts in on this path. The only debate here from this thread is can you achieve this with no fear,no pain,no emotions in less than a snap of your fingers or do you need to go through the ringer. I say ringer is it Back to packing Michael It's a way of talking about, and it's fine I guess, but I'm in the mode of collapsing stuff now, so.........Mind is what complicates, always. What is actually the case is never too complicated to understand, though it IS too simple to understand. The Absolute isn't Johnny appleseed planting seeds in people's heads. The 'Absolute' is what is experiencing through mind because this experience is interesting, but this interest has an expiration date. I'm sure lots of folks here have the sense of 'been there done that' even if they haven't. Stuff that excites a lot of folks doesn't seem all that cool to a lot of us. The rides in the amusement park seem kind of childish and there really isn't anything to replace it. This is when we start asking what's next. It's not a seed that sprouts, it's just a lack of interest in the other stuff that turns the attention toward transcending it all. It's still the attention of the Absolute, but this time it's turning toward itself. Saying a person is illusion is of no help unless someone looks and notices it's true, which can be of tremendous help. The entire structure of attachments can collapse in one swell foop. I wouldn't say the reason for creation is going back home. Is the purpose of you're hiking out to a cabin, to get home? If so, I can save you some time. Of course, the time will come when a seed will sprout in your head (hehe) and you'll desire to come back home, but that's not your purpose in leaving, which would be silly. Nobody has suggested that there is a shortcut to realization, though I'm also saying there are no methods to bring it about. The methods are the playing out of a mythical journey to the land of milk and honey, which is great fun, until it isn't, at which point one might realize he never left 'home' to begin with. The "ringer" is also part of the mythical journey. Dragons are slayed and all sorts of battles to the death are fought, but it can't be said that this is necessary because it doesn't actually accomplish anything as there isn't anything to accomplish.
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Post by enigma on Dec 3, 2010 23:49:27 GMT -5
E. You're killing me! I've got to learn about emoticons. I'm such a f***ing Luddite! I have nine messages waiting for me on Facebook, but I don't understand anything about Facebook. I can't even find "my wall" to write on it or get messages from it. Who are all these people trying to get in touch with me? How do I find them? Where are they? They must be in the ether somewhere. Okay, when I get back from skiing in Utah, I'm going to hire someone to set up my facebook profile with pictures and everything, and Im' going to find these faceless people, wherever they are. I've got to get with it, get linked in, get up to speed. No more laughingstock on the internet for me. No sireeeee. I've got to figure out how to do these emoticon-thingies for sure because they can capture exactly what I want to say without saying anything. That's almost non-conceptual! Michael, thanks. I'm definitely going to have some fun (unless I don't). I hope you have an equal amount of fun where you're going, even though the fun of a 60 pound backpack sounds somewhat oxymoronic. Cheers. Hehe. Yeah, I'm a facebook moron too. Somebody wrote on my wall the other day, and i told her to come back and clean it up! The other day, i posted a silly comment in the wrong place, and 6.8 billion people saw it. I ended up in a three day conversation with a dozen people I never heard of.
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Post by m on Dec 4, 2010 5:12:58 GMT -5
If no body, than no body-knowing ? I mean years ago I had this evidence body was meditation and was all that could be. So are you here speaking of this "body-beyond, in and beneath mind" (boy = unknowing = reality? Or of the body as a tool, the body as a way to unknowing(which i doubt a lot) m We may know a part of what we know, we may even know that we don't know but how can we know what we don't know. Is there a limit in not-knowing ? Is there a relation between knowing, not-knowing and keeping on "seeking-giving" (I don't find any in my "going for it".) I hope you can get my point. I am not playing with word. i do my best with where I am. m Well, remember that there are two kinds of knowing, body knowing and mind knowing. The Greeks used two different words for these kinds of knowing-- "gnossis" for body-knowing and "episteme" for mind-knowing. When we refer to not-knowing we are referring to direct knowing beyond the mind. If you put your hand on a hot stovetop, the body will jerk away and it/you will "know" that the stovetop is hot directly and non-conceptually through the body. If someone tells you that a stovetop is hot, you will "know" it is hot through the mind--through concepts transmitted through language. There is a big difference between these two types of knowing. Reality is perceived through the body (gnossis), directly and non-conceptually. The illusory world that most people perceive is a meta-reality created, maintained, and known (episteme) by mind--(through ideas, beliefs, images, etc.) Pure awareness is direct and unmediated by thought. We see "what is" beyond thought or language. It is non-verbal. If we see anything that appears to have boundaries, we are imagining. "A tree," for example, is a product of imagination. It is bounded. What a tree IS, and what the word "tree" points to, however, is infinite.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 4, 2010 7:33:38 GMT -5
M: No, I am speaking of the body as it is. The body is real, but it is not separate from anything else. I am talking about being in the body like a little child and interacting with the world through the senses in the same way a little child does. This is nothing esoteric, but it may seem esoteric to an adult. A little child is unified with reality. It does not imagine itself as a separate observer of reality. As imagination develops, the child psychologically leaves reality behind and begins to live in its head and perceive reality as if it were divided into things being seen by a separate observer. Ego is a product of this transition from direct body knowing to mediated-by-mind knowing. I am suggesting that when this developmental process is reversed (by suspending imagination/thought/belief/idea/image/symbol) one becomes re-unified, psychologically, with the world.
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Post by klaus on Dec 4, 2010 9:33:31 GMT -5
enigma,
Thanks for the clarification.
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iris
New Member
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Post by iris on Dec 4, 2010 9:45:52 GMT -5
The other day, i posted a silly comment in the wrong place, and 6.8 billion people saw it. I ended up in a three day conversation with a dozen people I never heard of. I just choked on my coffee I was laughing so hard. Recomposing now.
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lexi
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by lexi on Dec 4, 2010 10:39:08 GMT -5
How can Michaelsees say all he says and go on a retreat and HUNT??? And also bring a laptop? Cabinintheforest, my apologies. Your love of nature and animals is more divine than any 'spiritual' talk.
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Post by m on Dec 4, 2010 11:13:39 GMT -5
ZD: thank you for answering... Verbal communicating stroke again !!! The body you speak of and the body i spoke of are one and the same. So... no body, no (un)knowing? m M: No, I am speaking of the body as it is. The body is real, but it is not separate from anything else. I am talking about being in the body like a little child and interacting with the world through the senses in the same way a little child does. This is nothing esoteric, but it may seem esoteric to an adult. A little child is unified with reality. It does not imagine itself as a separate observer of reality. As imagination develops, the child psychologically leaves reality behind and begins to live in its head and perceive reality as if it were divided into things being seen by a separate observer. Ego is a product of this transition from direct body knowing to mediated-by-mind knowing. I am suggesting that when this developmental process is reversed (by suspending imagination/thought/belief/idea/image/symbol) one becomes re-unified, psychologically, with the world.
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Post by karen on Dec 4, 2010 12:52:18 GMT -5
How can Michaelsees say all he says and go on a retreat and HUNT??? And also bring a laptop? Why not bring a laptop? Why not hunt? (as a vegan myself, I find hunting for food less cruel than buying a whopper at Burger King)
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lexi
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by lexi on Dec 4, 2010 14:47:56 GMT -5
How can Michaelsees say all he says and go on a retreat and HUNT??? And also bring a laptop? Why not bring a laptop? Why not hunt? (as a vegan myself, I find hunting for food less cruel than buying a whopper at Burger King) Points gun at rabbit- fires- hears squeal, picks up bloody, dead rabbit. Points gun at Whopper- fires- picks up pieces of whopper. That is the Actual difference. And why confuse one with the other? The other is similar but different issue. One goes on a retreat- spiritual here- and kills wildlife to eat? When, if they had to eat meat, could buy already dead animals? One goes into the sacredness of nature and kills wildlife? One who is into enlightenment? No way. A laptop on a retreat- that worldly connection literally? That addictive plaything? Not my kind of retreat. Not my kind of 'retreater'.
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Post by karen on Dec 4, 2010 19:41:02 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your beliefs with me.
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lexi
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by lexi on Dec 5, 2010 14:56:51 GMT -5
If you were listening,
I was sharing my heart.
But you would have had to listen
from yours.
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Post by karen on Dec 5, 2010 15:34:30 GMT -5
Thanks again!
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Post by zendancer on Dec 5, 2010 21:31:10 GMT -5
Lots of ideas flying around here. Sorta like a flock of irridescent birds. Kinda hard to see the truth with so many attractive birds attracting attention.
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Post by karen on Dec 6, 2010 0:59:20 GMT -5
They're kinda sticky birds too.
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