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Post by tzujanli on Jan 19, 2018 17:01:20 GMT -5
Greetings,
Wishing all a peaceful 2018, hoping that you find wakefulness satisfactory..
Be well
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Post by lolly on Jan 19, 2018 19:11:20 GMT -5
Yes, I have found that much of the training is creating the psychological profile of an athlete through the mind/body connection, and good musculature is really a byproduct of direct conscious awareness of the sensation in the body as one exercises. The issue is, the movement which entails the stretch and contraction of the muscle is that sensation which alters ones psychological profile through conscious awareness of it. If a person was very well formed in that mindful way, I don't actually see how the body would know the difference between the mentality of it and the actual practice of the exercise - hence the body would adapt to the 'neural map' without actually lifting a weight. But, it's also true that suc neural mapping is cultivated through the conscious awareness of the sensation as one lifts - so this would make lifting necessary. There is also a disconnect between lifting to get big muscles and lifting for the sake of expressing physical strength, which adds another layer of complexity to it, and lifting for an aesthetic consequence is quite different to lifting for the mere sake of lifting heavy as weights. I tell you, though, if a person is spiritually inclined, there is nothing so truthful as a barbell. You may be interested in Henry Rollins essay called 'Iron and the soul'.I like the voice in the video, too. There have been a lot of studies in that area (physical training vs. mental training). It basically boils down to self-image in the end. Seth recommended the book Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz to Rob and Jane. In that book Maltz describes how this all works. Interestingly, what Maltz teaches is basically identical with what A-H teach. He wasn't particularly muscular, so he doesn't substantiate much at all. On the other hand, Kai Greene says 'thoughts become things', but he's got the cred to say so because he trains like he means it.
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Post by explorer on Jan 20, 2018 3:05:29 GMT -5
“Life is either a great adventure or nothing,” said Helen Keller. And it is in so many ways: physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. I certainly agree with Augustine of Hippo talking of the spiritual adventure when he said, “To fall in love with God is the greatest romance; to seek him the greatest adventure; to find him the greatest achievement.” We may not like the word "God" so much these days but his message of the possibility and joy of transcending mundane consciousness surely speaks to us. May we all have lives of adventure and joy, relishing the extraordinary experience of being spirit encased for a while in a human body (even if the whole adventure is just one fantastic illusion for the entertainment of Consciousness!)
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 20, 2018 10:08:21 GMT -5
Greetings, Wishing all a peaceful 2018, hoping that you find wakefulness satisfactory.. Be well Hey Tzu, good to hear from you.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 24, 2018 8:34:30 GMT -5
By physical pain I mean just physical pain like stubbing your toe. What you are talking about is emotional pain that eventually turns into physical pain. Two very different things. I'm going to have to agree with justlikeyou. There is emotional pain/suffering/psychological pain that is worse than physical pain. Much of the world ~revolves~ around this kind of "pain", the arts which mirrors the world, TV, film, novels. And all this is centered on the self, the kind of self we-are. Most here have probably heard about the children who were recently freed from the captivity of their parents, 13 children and adults I think it was, the oldest 29. Unimaginable. (Chained, malnourished, not allowed to go to a toilet, watched parents eating pie and cake, got a bath once a year). I heard last night that the girl who notified authorities planned her escape for two years. The physical wounds of those children will eventually heal. The psychological wounds may never heal. Some people kill themselves because it seems they can escape angst in no other way. (Angst, although "psychological", is exceptionally painful and debilitating). "You are the world". J Krishnamurti Again, at the root of psychological pain is a bogus belief. Physical pain is different.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 24, 2018 10:10:25 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with justlikeyou. There is emotional pain/suffering/psychological pain that is worse than physical pain. Much of the world ~revolves~ around this kind of "pain", the arts which mirrors the world, TV, film, novels. And all this is centered on the self, the kind of self we-are. Most here have probably heard about the children who were recently freed from the captivity of their parents, 13 children and adults I think it was, the oldest 29. Unimaginable. (Chained, malnourished, not allowed to go to a toilet, watched parents eating pie and cake, got a bath once a year). I heard last night that the girl who notified authorities planned her escape for two years. The physical wounds of those children will eventually heal. The psychological wounds may never heal. Some people kill themselves because it seems they can escape angst in no other way. (Angst, although "psychological", is exceptionally painful and debilitating). "You are the world". J Krishnamurti Again, at the root of psychological pain is a bogus belief. Physical pain is different. That doesn't make it any less hurting. The bogus belief and that-which-hurts are ~made of~ the same ~stuff~, and are like lock and key. There is a distinction between what's authentic (whole threads on this) and what's bogus (imaginary/imagined).
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Post by lolly on Jan 25, 2018 0:00:18 GMT -5
It's overly simplistic to write it off as a bogus belief, because trauma is based in real lived experience, whereas unicorns aren't. See the difference? It's more like a person has to do what needs to be done to best serve the survival of the body and sanity of mind, so some contents have to be 'hidden away' if they present significant risks of harm. Eventually such contents have to come to conscious attention and be faced, but this can only realistically occur when the conditions are conducive.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 25, 2018 10:26:59 GMT -5
It's overly simplistic to write it off as a bogus belief, because trauma is based in real lived experience, whereas unicorns aren't. See the difference? It's more like a person has to do what needs to be done to best serve the survival of the body and sanity of mind, so some contents have to be 'hidden away' if they present significant risks of harm. Eventually such contents have to come to conscious attention and be faced, but this can only realistically occur when the conditions are conducive. Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 25, 2018 17:31:47 GMT -5
It's overly simplistic to write it off as a bogus belief, because trauma is based in real lived experience, whereas unicorns aren't. See the difference? It's more like a person has to do what needs to be done to best serve the survival of the body and sanity of mind, so some contents have to be 'hidden away' if they present significant risks of harm. Eventually such contents have to come to conscious attention and be faced, but this can only realistically occur when the conditions are conducive. Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass. The intellect cannot understand what "perfect" means without having a CC experience, but no other word points as directly to the truth of the matter. Not good or bad; just perfect. As Flora Courtois wrote: "The whole world seemed to have reversed itself, to have turned outside in. Activity flowed simply and effortlessly, and to my amazement, seemingly without thought. Instead of following my old sequence of learning, thinking, planning, and acting, action had taken precedence and whatever was learned was surprisingly incidental. Yet nothing ever seemed to go out of bounds; there was no alternation between self-control and letting go but rather a perfect rightness and spontaneity to all this flowing activity....in some indefinable way I knew with absolute certainty the changeless unity and harmony in charge of the universe and the inseparability of all seeming opposites.....I now saw that wholeness and holiness are one. I knew now that eternity is here always, and there is no higher, no deeper, no separate past or future time or place. How could love be other than this all-encompassing Oneness....?"
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Post by justlikeyou on Jan 25, 2018 18:30:56 GMT -5
The intellect cannot understand what "perfect" means without having a CC experience, but no other word points as directly to the truth of the matter. Not good or bad; just perfect. Yes, it's hard to image that there is but one actor, and that that actor is the one who plays all the parts, and is ultimately untouched and unhurt by any of it. Short of a direct experience with ________, the idea is likely to be seen as cruel and/or absurd.
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Post by lolly on Jan 25, 2018 19:27:27 GMT -5
It's overly simplistic to write it off as a bogus belief, because trauma is based in real lived experience, whereas unicorns aren't. See the difference? It's more like a person has to do what needs to be done to best serve the survival of the body and sanity of mind, so some contents have to be 'hidden away' if they present significant risks of harm. Eventually such contents have to come to conscious attention and be faced, but this can only realistically occur when the conditions are conducive. Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass. Yea, I think spiritual people imagine themselves to be experts in psychology, but they tend to deal in ideals rather than real human lives. Yes. People aren't even aware of what compels them. There is a difference between things based on real lived experience and completely delusional things, so the 'imaginary' has a few unexplained caveats.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jan 25, 2018 19:53:34 GMT -5
Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass. Yea, I think spiritual people imagine themselves to be experts in psychology, but they tend to deal in ideals rather than real human lives. Yes. People aren't even aware of what compels them. There is a difference between things based on real lived experience and completely delusional things, so the 'imaginary' has a few unexplained caveats. I assure you, my wife is not an ideal :-)
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Post by zendancer on Jan 25, 2018 21:44:21 GMT -5
The intellect cannot understand what "perfect" means without having a CC experience, but no other word points as directly to the truth of the matter. Not good or bad; just perfect. Yes, it's hard to image that there is but one actor, and that that actor is the one who plays all the parts, and is ultimately untouched and unhurt by any of it. Short of a direct experience with ________, the idea is likely to be seen as cruel and/or absurd. Exactly!
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Post by zendancer on Jan 26, 2018 13:39:34 GMT -5
It's overly simplistic to write it off as a bogus belief, because trauma is based in real lived experience, whereas unicorns aren't. See the difference? It's more like a person has to do what needs to be done to best serve the survival of the body and sanity of mind, so some contents have to be 'hidden away' if they present significant risks of harm. Eventually such contents have to come to conscious attention and be faced, but this can only realistically occur when the conditions are conducive. Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass. Here are some words from the Upanishads that seem applicable regarding the perfection that can be apprehended: Creatures rise; creatures vanish; I alone am real, Arjuna, looking out, amused, from deep within the eyes of every creature. I am the object of all knowledge, father of the world, it's mother, source of all things, of impure and pure, of holiness and horror....... I am the Self, Arjuna, seated in the heart of every creature. I am the origin, the middle, and the end that all must come to...... All your thoughts, all your actions, all your fears and disappointments, offer them to me, clear-hearted; know them all as passing visions.... Even murderers and rapists, tyrants, the most cruel fanatics, ultimately know redemption through my love, if they surrender to my harsh but healing graces. Passing through excruciating transformations, they find freedom and their hearts find peace within them. I am always with all beings; I abandon no one. And however great your inner darkness, you are never separate from me. _______________________ The intellect takes us far from the truth, but in silence the truth can be apprehended. From the book of Psalms are these words: "God's universe is perfect, awing the mind. God's truth is subtle, baffling the intellect. God's law is complete, quickening the breath. Gos'd compassion is fathomless, refreshing the soul. God's justice is absolute, lighting up the eyes. God's love is radiant, rejoicing the heart....." ______________________________ One final passage from the Upanishads: "Two birds, one of them mortal, the other immortal, live in the same tree. The first one pecks at the fruit, sweet or bitter; the second looks on without eating. Thus the personal self pecks at the fruit of the world, bewildered by suffering, always hungry for more. But when he meets the True Self, the resplendent God, the source of all creation, all his cravings are stilled. Perceiving Self in all creatures, he forgets himself in the service of all; good and evil both vanish; delighting in Self, playing like a child with Self, he does whatever is called for, whatever the result. Self is everywhere, shining forth from all beings, vaster than the vast, subtler than the most subtle, unreachable, yet nearer than breath, than heartbeat. Eye cannot see it, ear cannot hear it nor tongue utter it; only in deep absorption can the mind, grown pure and silent, merge with the formless truth. He who finds it is free; he has found himself; he has solved the great riddle; his heart forever is at peace. Whole, he enters the whole. His personal self returns to its radiant, intimate, deathless source.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 26, 2018 16:38:54 GMT -5
Yes, precisely. This is a conversation I've tried to have with ZD several times (have given numerous examples). His CC tells him everything is all right, everything is perfect. ~Looking down~ everything might be perfect, but thousands and even millions of people live s*t**y lives (most recent example, the 13 children held captive by their parents, I don't think everything was perfect with them. Another recent example, the gymnastics doctor who molested over 150 girls, explain that ZD). Most people are driven by unconscious forces, within themselves. This makes for conflict, interior war even. So bogus belief is not really bogus belief. Bogus beliefs have an 'iron clad' basis in the neural structure, not easily overcome, not imaginary in the sense that ZD uses the word, whatsoever. Many people do what "needs to be done", in the service of a warped psychology, and what they do almost inevitably leads them further into the morass. The intellect cannot understand what "perfect" means without having a CC experience, but no other word points as directly to the truth of the matter. Not good or bad; just perfect. As Flora Courtois wrote: "The whole world seemed to have reversed itself, to have turned outside in. Activity flowed simply and effortlessly, and to my amazement, seemingly without thought. Instead of following my old sequence of learning, thinking, planning, and acting, action had taken precedence and whatever was learned was surprisingly incidental. Yet nothing ever seemed to go out of bounds; there was no alternation between self-control and letting go but rather a perfect rightness and spontaneity to all this flowing activity....in some indefinable way I knew with absolute certainty the changeless unity and harmony in charge of the universe and the inseparability of all seeming opposites.....I now saw that wholeness and holiness are one. I knew now that eternity is here always, and there is no higher, no deeper, no separate past or future time or place. How could love be other than this all-encompassing Oneness....?" But that doesn't answer the imperfection. Something is amiss. ....(Related, saw Hostiles today. The previews did not entice me. The 'one word' good reviews did. And I read Rotten Tomatoes synopsis. So decided to see. Yes, very violent. But it turned out to be very worthwhile. Very moving. IOW, it somehow-to some extent shows "perfection" within the imperfection). ....
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