mits
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by mits on Oct 21, 2010 17:04:53 GMT -5
I have always been puzzled by Awakening! What exactly is Awakening or Enlightenment -- and is this the same as Realization (God Realization). As quoted in more esoteric sources and by some of the spiritual teachers from what I have read. That enlightenment awakening is to be free from the cyle of life and death -- rebirth
Why do I mean by this? At the end of my Buddhas Life he dissolve out of the mechanics of the cosmos into what I call the preluminous void - meaning that state of being before God said - Let there be light- never to be known again directly in any way whatsoever. Again is this selfish? Or should every person attempt this as I imagine the cyle of life and death - rebirth will continue unless you can step out of it somehow like Budda did!
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Post by klaus on Oct 21, 2010 19:50:47 GMT -5
mits,
Don't sweat the small stuff.
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Post by zendancer on Oct 21, 2010 20:01:14 GMT -5
Mits: Why would you want to bring an end to this play? Aren't you having fun? isn't life a blast? Look around. This is all for you.
As for the Buddha and his supposed escape from the cycle of life and death, the whole story is nonsense. Who and what you are is infinite. There is no "you" who can escape because you're the whole thing. There is no beginning or end. Throw away all of your ideas about this. Klaus is right on target; don;t sweat the small stuff because whatever you're thinking IS the small stuff. Relax. Go with the flow. Enjoy!
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mits
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by mits on Oct 22, 2010 3:50:03 GMT -5
Zendancer: "Who Or What I am is Infinite"
What happens after this realization either through meditation or some other esoteric practise - such as Tai Chi? Actually I read a Book by Douglas Harding - Where he said that the discovery of your true orignal nature is important and what you do with is as equally important? If by Grace I do discover this in the near future well what would one do with it?
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Post by ashtavakra on Oct 22, 2010 4:07:44 GMT -5
Mits.....there wont be any "one" left to do something ...as you say that by Grace you'll discover...then that grace will take over. hence you need'nt worry either way !!!
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Post by zendancer on Oct 22, 2010 7:32:52 GMT -5
Astavakra has stated the situation precisely. At this very moment you are already free from the cycle of birth and death, but you haven't yet realized it. When realization occurs, YOU (as opposed to "you") will discover that "Mits" never existed in any sense. "Mits" is a product of imagination--a set of ideas and a story. THAT which is reading these words is real. "Mits" appears and disappears as a result of reflective thoughts. Thoughts, alone, keep the story of "Mits" alive. If thoughts cease, "Mits" will disappear, but the body and awareness will remain. "Mits" is simply a case of misidentification.
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Post by michaelsees on Oct 22, 2010 9:28:11 GMT -5
What ZD has posted is true. However please be careful to understand that what he has said about not yet realizing your true essence is Not a intellectual thing. This is where so many people get lost.
Most of the neo-advaita crowd out there give satsangs, intensives, workshops all based on bringing you this intellectual understanding. The "danger" here is many who have a sharp mind will see this as the missing puzzle piece hence thinking they are now realized. The truth is all that has happen is their mind now has a place it can feel some satisfaction and rest on this idea of awakening.
In my opinion it's very important for these "teachers" to always speak to where a person is in their mind and go from there. For a person that has fully realized their own awakening there are no more questions. They are not concerned with the word freedom because they are freedom itself. They are not concerned about what to to with anything as they now fully know that they are not the doer.
I like to look at it like this. Now this is merely a illustration and is not real but can give you a idea of what I am pointing to. So pretend their are 2 minds. The one mind which keeps your blood flowing, body alive, the planets holding in space, the trees and plants, and animals. This one mind works without any understanding on your part. You would not live a moment without it.
The other mind is not your friend. It's the thinking mind and it's this mind that creates all the troubles for you you out of nothingness. Once we realize not through intellect(which is the thinking mind) but through realization itself that we have always been awake then I like to say a bit of magic happens. We now can see and be without this "thinking mind" everything then is seen as it truly is without us putting our own take on it. This does not come from listening to teachers who use the thinking mind to explain things that can never be fully understood from that point of reference.Nor can it come from my words here.
It's my own feeling that the way to this realization is to quiet the thinking mind little by little and if you are sincere enough in your desire to be realize then it will come to you on it's own.
peace Michael
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Post by ashtavakra on Oct 22, 2010 11:44:52 GMT -5
that's right Michael....we cant kid ourselves for long with mearly an intellectual understanding....all that will wear off the moment one steps out of these satsangs,workshops etc... the understanding has to become a way of life. then there is some hope....not of enlightenment or such thing...but to lead ones life with acceptance and peace. being sincere and honest with oneself is very important.
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Post by michaelsees on Oct 22, 2010 12:19:21 GMT -5
Greetings Ashtavkra,
Yes being honest with oneself and sincere can help any seeker. This can also help many neo-advaita teachers if they can be humble enough to practice.
For a truly realized being that knows they are and always been awake it's not possible to be anything but honest and sincere. They are the honesty and sincerity itself. When source speaks from source it simply is what it is no question can be raised about this. peace Michael
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Post by mysticwinds on Oct 22, 2010 15:15:34 GMT -5
To me, awakening means you have that AH HA moment the light bulb comes on. you realize that you are life, you are the writer. you are the stone that touches the water to send out rings of energy...we ARE ONE in all aspects of life. We realize everyTHING is energy in motion. We K(NOW) ego is the cause of something we are not. We begin to brighten our senses more indepth for understanding that every thought we had deep down, BEcame born into actions that affects all. Awakening is the beginning of enlightenment...so open up the kundehlini ( sp? )............ let is go let it flow. Letting go....of the ego so that the natural inner source may flow!
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Post by etolle on Dec 4, 2017 18:12:33 GMT -5
What ZD has posted is true. However please be careful to understand that what he has said about not yet realizing your true essence is Not a intellectual thing. This is where so many people get lost. Most of the neo-advaita crowd out there give satsangs, intensives, workshops all based on bringing you this intellectual understanding. The "danger" here is many who have a sharp mind will see this as the missing puzzle piece hence thinking they are now realized. The truth is all that has happen is their mind now has a place it can feel some satisfaction and rest on this idea of awakening. In my opinion it's very important for these "teachers" to always speak to where a person is in their mind and go from there. For a person that has fully realized their own awakening there are no more questions. They are not concerned with the word freedom because they are freedom itself. They are not concerned about what to to with anything as they now fully know that they are not the doer. I like to look at it like this. Now this is merely a illustration and is not real but can give you a idea of what I am pointing to. So pretend their are 2 minds. The one mind which keeps your blood flowing, body alive, the planets holding in space, the trees and plants, and animals. This one mind works without any understanding on your part. You would not live a moment without it. The other mind is not your friend. It's the thinking mind and it's this mind that creates all the troubles for you you out of nothingness. Once we realize not through intellect(which is the thinking mind) but through realization itself that we have always been awake then I like to say a bit of magic happens. We now can see and be without this "thinking mind" everything then is seen as it truly is without us putting our own take on it. This does not come from listening to teachers who use the thinking mind to explain things that can never be fully understood from that point of reference.Nor can it come from my words here. It's my own feeling that the way to this realization is to quiet the thinking mind little by little and if you are sincere enough in your desire to be realize then it will come to you on it's own. peace Michael once we realize not through intellect but through realization itself ..can you be more specific or explain please?
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Post by zendancer on Dec 4, 2017 21:02:38 GMT -5
What ZD has posted is true. However please be careful to understand that what he has said about not yet realizing your true essence is Not a intellectual thing. This is where so many people get lost. Most of the neo-advaita crowd out there give satsangs, intensives, workshops all based on bringing you this intellectual understanding. The "danger" here is many who have a sharp mind will see this as the missing puzzle piece hence thinking they are now realized. The truth is all that has happen is their mind now has a place it can feel some satisfaction and rest on this idea of awakening. In my opinion it's very important for these "teachers" to always speak to where a person is in their mind and go from there. For a person that has fully realized their own awakening there are no more questions. They are not concerned with the word freedom because they are freedom itself. They are not concerned about what to to with anything as they now fully know that they are not the doer. I like to look at it like this. Now this is merely a illustration and is not real but can give you a idea of what I am pointing to. So pretend their are 2 minds. The one mind which keeps your blood flowing, body alive, the planets holding in space, the trees and plants, and animals. This one mind works without any understanding on your part. You would not live a moment without it. The other mind is not your friend. It's the thinking mind and it's this mind that creates all the troubles for you you out of nothingness. Once we realize not through intellect(which is the thinking mind) but through realization itself that we have always been awake then I like to say a bit of magic happens. We now can see and be without this "thinking mind" everything then is seen as it truly is without us putting our own take on it. This does not come from listening to teachers who use the thinking mind to explain things that can never be fully understood from that point of reference.Nor can it come from my words here. It's my own feeling that the way to this realization is to quiet the thinking mind little by little and if you are sincere enough in your desire to be realize then it will come to you on it's own. peace Michael once we realize not through intellect but through realization itself ..can you be more specific or explain please? We've discussed this issue a lot in the past. A realization does not occur through the intellect; it's a sudden direct seeing by THAT WHICH SEES. The common example is imagining that what we see is a snake, but as we get closer, we suddenly realize that it's not a snake; it's a rope, and we relax. Self-realization is similar to this. Up to a certain point in time we imagine that we are an entity inside a body looking at an outside world. If grace allows, THAT WHICH WE ARE suddenly realizes that selfhood was nothing more than a powerful illusion, and IT/we become free from that illusion. It then becomes obvious that there was never a person who did anything. There was only the infinite ineffability of "what is," and "what is" is a living unified Whole. Call it "God" or "the Absolute," or whatever we wish, THAT is all there is, and when THAT is realized, the idea of separation is understood to be a product of imagination, only. Seeing through the illusion of selfhood results in an amazing sense of freedom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 3:10:30 GMT -5
once we realize not through intellect but through realization itself ..can you be more specific or explain please? We've discussed this issue a lot in the past. A realization does not occur through the intellect; it's a sudden direct seeing by THAT WHICH SEES. The common example is imagining that what we see is a snake, but as we get closer, we suddenly realize that it's not a snake; it's a rope, and we relax. Self-realization is similar to this. Up to a certain point in time we imagine that we are an entity inside a body looking at an outside world. If grace allows, THAT WHICH WE ARE suddenly realizes that selfhood was nothing more than a powerful illusion, and IT/we become free from that illusion. It then becomes obvious that there was never a person who did anything. There was only the infinite ineffability of "what is," and "what is" is a living unified Whole. Call it "God" or "the Absolute," or whatever we wish, THAT is all there is, and when THAT is realized, the idea of separation is understood to be a product of imagination, only. Seeing through the illusion of selfhood results in an amazing sense of freedom. And the one that benefits from such an amazing sense of freedom would be the very same one that would benefit from having breathing techniques explained to them in some depth.
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Post by etolle on Dec 5, 2017 6:51:00 GMT -5
We've discussed this issue a lot in the past. A realization does not occur through the intellect; it's a sudden direct seeing by THAT WHICH SEES. The common example is imagining that what we see is a snake, but as we get closer, we suddenly realize that it's not a snake; it's a rope, and we relax. Self-realization is similar to this. Up to a certain point in time we imagine that we are an entity inside a body looking at an outside world. If grace allows, THAT WHICH WE ARE suddenly realizes that selfhood was nothing more than a powerful illusion, and IT/we become free from that illusion. It then becomes obvious that there was never a person who did anything. There was only the infinite ineffability of "what is," and "what is" is a living unified Whole. Call it "God" or "the Absolute," or whatever we wish, THAT is all there is, and when THAT is realized, the idea of separation is understood to be a product of imagination, only. Seeing through the illusion of selfhood results in an amazing sense of freedom. And the one that benefits from such an amazing sense of freedom would be the very same one that would benefit from having breathing techniques explained to them in some depth. could you call "that which sees" my innermost self,essential nature,or true self?...
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Post by etolle on Dec 5, 2017 6:55:48 GMT -5
I screwed up the quote function..is that which sees same as innermost self,true self or essential nature?..i'm a member of alcoholics anonymous and in our literature we use these terms. spiritual awakening,etc...freedom from the bondage of self..so freedom from the bondage of self just means that who I thought I was,was rubbish created by the mind?..and the awakening is the realization,or waking up is to be aware of the bs?..the bondage of self being the sense of separation?..or as tolle says the egoic mind?
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