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Post by explorer on Jan 12, 2018 12:53:38 GMT -5
Ah yes, Football, the beautiful game. God's own game! Zen in action. No wonder it is the world's game, even the great unifying world religion. Oops.... I think I may have gone over the top. Or have I? When my local small team in England got into the top league, the Premiership, I genuinely realised that miracles do happen. If Bournemouth could get into the Premiership, playing Manchester United and Chelsea etc, then anything is truly possible, including Liberation for anyone lost in the world of illusion!
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 21:45:28 GMT -5
Yes, trying to quantify the unquantifiable can be fun. But that's about it. Sure, and this just gives me a chance to say that what I said wasn't intended as figure you can take to the bank, hehe Yeah, I figured. But it always amazes me how scientist can in all seriousness come up with such specific numbers.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 21:49:00 GMT -5
Pain is not your enemy, it's your friend. It's inner guidance. It's like the gas gauge in your car. When your gas gauge reads empty, the solution is to refuel and not to be neutral to all gas gauge readings. Sure, pain is a friend, but more like a warning light on the dash. Not a warm, fuzzy friend at all, but rather one that tells you the cold, hard facts of Life. And in terms of mental anguish, indulging in resistant thoughts toward the presence of pain WILL produce greater and extended mental anguish/suffering. The quicker it is allowed/accepted the quicker it passes. Yes, pain basically means stop doing whatever you are doing. Once that is understood, the falsity of the 'no pain no gain' doctrine can be seen as well.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 21:58:21 GMT -5
Sure, pain is a friend, but more like a warning light on the dash. Not a warm, fuzzy friend at all, but rather one that tells you the cold, hard facts of Life. And in terms of mental anguish, indulging in resistant thoughts toward the presence of pain WILL produce greater and extended mental anguish/suffering. The quicker it is allowed/accepted the quicker it passes. But not all pain is transient, some pain recurs, and there really is such a thing as unbearable pain. If someone hears that they should allow the pain, and they take it to heart, they're going to start to try allowing it. Do you see the potential for a person to arrive at a bind in this scenario? A-H often use the expression 'relax into the pain' which is basically what JLY was suggesting and it works really well for physical pain. The idea is to stop the struggle, to accept that you are where you are right now for now and that everything will take care of itself since well-being is the predominant force no matter what (see cork analogy).
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 22:11:05 GMT -5
TMT. Those moment points are totally arbitrary. In one context this is true if those moments are taken in isolation as disjointed points, but in terms of what a CC reveals, the pathos I was referring to is in recognition of the movement as a totality, and there's no theory involved in this, just a lingering after effect. In the relative context, the ordering of the moment points isn't arbitrary. The scientists can quantify what they think of as the duration since the Big Bang. A CC basically makes you realize what eternity really means. In the end the ordering is arbitrary. It's just that we all share the same consensus trance (basic agreements on how to decipher reality) and so there seems to be an order in the chaos, a method to the madness. Ever watched any of those movies where they mess with the timeline?
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 22:14:15 GMT -5
Becoming never ceases, but it can be seen for what it is. In the broadest sense it's among the trickiest subjects of all, but total unbinding (paranibbana) is liberation from the 'realm' of becoming, (which broadly. is a certain state of being). Don't get me started on "will the last one out, please turn the lights off" ... Yes, it's tricky. It's basically the question if God is all perfect and complete or still evolving and therefore incomplete.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 22:25:00 GMT -5
It does all get increasingly subtle, and really I'm just talking broadly about a couple of the pieces there, which fit together with a number of others to form a seamless picture. A picture which in certain circumstances comes together and can be 'traversed'. Obviously there are voluminous texts dedicated to that picture, but in the end the subtleties of it can only be directly known, realised, although perhaps to varying degrees of refinement. Yes. The pertinent question is, what (re)incarnates? An analogy. Do you (does anyone) have early memories, say from age 6, 5, 4 or even younger? In what sense are you the-same-person, then and now? There is something that is continuous from then to now, but atst there is much more that is not continuous. So what carries over from one incarnation to another? The person we consider ourselves to be (speaking for most people) does not carry over, it dies, this is the experience of the Bardo in Tibetan Buddhism. Does that mean we should have no concern for a ~future self~?...as this future self will be FAIAP be ~somebody else~. Everybody, in some sense, answers this question, their whole life is an answer to the question. Samkaras and vasanas carry-over from one life to another, they form a kind of foundation for subsequent lives, IOW karma does carry over. But also, an undeveloped field of potential also carries over, you could say a kind of spiritual DNA. www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1058023-difference-between-samkaras-and-vasanas/So, if anyone holds the view that there-is- only an undifferentiated Whole, and nothing else, that's an incomplete picture. www.nevernotpresent.com/satsangs/vasanas-samskaras-and-karma/According to Seth it actually does. Egos do reincarnate.
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Post by lolly on Jan 12, 2018 23:07:24 GMT -5
Yes. The pertinent question is, what (re)incarnates? An analogy. Do you (does anyone) have early memories, say from age 6, 5, 4 or even younger? In what sense are you the-same-person, then and now? There is something that is continuous from then to now, but atst there is much more that is not continuous. So what carries over from one incarnation to another? The person we consider ourselves to be (speaking for most people) does not carry over, it dies, this is the experience of the Bardo in Tibetan Buddhism. Does that mean we should have no concern for a ~future self~?...as this future self will be FAIAP be ~somebody else~. Everybody, in some sense, answers this question, their whole life is an answer to the question. Samkaras and vasanas carry-over from one life to another, they form a kind of foundation for subsequent lives, IOW karma does carry over. But also, an undeveloped field of potential also carries over, you could say a kind of spiritual DNA. www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1058023-difference-between-samkaras-and-vasanas/So, if anyone holds the view that there-is- only an undifferentiated Whole, and nothing else, that's an incomplete picture. www.nevernotpresent.com/satsangs/vasanas-samskaras-and-karma/According to Seth it actually does. Egos do reincarnate. By what mechanism does Seth explain this reincarnation?
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 23:24:53 GMT -5
According to Seth it actually does. Egos do reincarnate. By what mechanism does Seth explain this reincarnation? The way I remember him explaining it, it was similar to thought forms having a life of their own after a while. I'll have to check my notes and get back to this.
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 4:46:10 GMT -5
But not all pain is transient, some pain recurs, and there really is such a thing as unbearable pain. If someone hears that they should allow the pain, and they take it to heart, they're going to start to try allowing it. Do you see the potential for a person to arrive at a bind in this scenario? A-H often use the expression 'relax into the pain' which is basically what JLY was suggesting and it works really well for physical pain. The idea is to stop the struggle, to accept that you are where you are right now for now and that everything will take care of itself since well-being is the predominant force no matter what (see cork analogy). It's excellent advice, but for as long as the false sense of self is active it has it's limits. Pain and suffering form a feedback loop, and the pain of the sufferer is very real, which is ultimately why suffering, in the extreme, can be so illuminating as to the unreality of the apparent cause of that pain. Until SR, relaxing into the pain can only mitigate this, but as we are not machines, the failure of that mitigation is as unpredictable (acausal), as the realization.
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 5:03:26 GMT -5
In one context this is true if those moments are taken in isolation as disjointed points, but in terms of what a CC reveals, the pathos I was referring to is in recognition of the movement as a totality, and there's no theory involved in this, just a lingering after effect. In the relative context, the ordering of the moment points isn't arbitrary. The scientists can quantify what they think of as the duration since the Big Bang. A CC basically makes you realize what eternity really means. Yes, and time and change are engaged with in a completely different way afterward. There's no possibility of numbness, and there is a profound beauty in any given particular arrangement of the Universe that is only enhanced by its temporality. There's no clinging to the present form, but a profound depth to the appreciation of it, and an ultimately indescribable poignancy to it's constant transformation. One overt expression of this I'm aware of are those Tibetan monks who spend 100's of hours creating intricate mosaics out of colored sand and then wipe them out as soon as they're complete. In the end the ordering is arbitrary. It's just that we all share the same consensus trance (basic agreements on how to decipher reality) and so there seems to be an order in the chaos, a method to the madness. Ever watched any of those movies where they mess with the timeline? Yes, and most of the art I've experienced along these lines is rife with misconceptions. Chaos and order are (ultimately) the same dichotomy as personal/impersonal, and there are lots of different versions of the potential "koan" with regard to timelines, like: "who would I be if I'd never lost my first love?". A related koan that doesn't fully capture this is the square circle. In it's depths, Mu comes around to this .. "what is the meaning of my limitations?" ("what is the meaning of my nature?").
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 5:11:27 GMT -5
In the broadest sense it's among the trickiest subjects of all, but total unbinding (paranibbana) is liberation from the 'realm' of becoming, (which broadly. is a certain state of being). Don't get me started on "will the last one out, please turn the lights off" ... Yes, it's tricky. It's basically the question if God is all perfect and complete or still evolving and therefore incomplete. They who speak a word in reply has erred!
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 5:26:22 GMT -5
Sure, pain is a friend, but more like a warning light on the dash. Not a warm, fuzzy friend at all, but rather one that tells you the cold, hard facts of Life. And in terms of mental anguish, indulging in resistant thoughts toward the presence of pain WILL produce greater and extended mental anguish/suffering. The quicker it is allowed/accepted the quicker it passes. Yes, pain basically means stop doing whatever you are doing. Once that is understood, the falsity of the 'no pain no gain' doctrine can be seen as well. Well, that term comes from athletes. Have you ever experienced a gradual improvement in physical health by investing in exercise and calorie reduction? Both can cause short-term pain but a longer term improvement in ongoing experience. Take lolz and his weightlifting. In the extremes, pumping iron can cause damage, but it can also build muscle gradually without any negative effects if it's done within the constraints of one's current limitations. Over time those limitations become expanded.
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 5:28:23 GMT -5
Look. It's just common sense. Any game that doesn't have a weaponized rigid plastic helmet as part of it's uniform has no business going by the name of "football".
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Post by laughter on Jan 13, 2018 5:39:47 GMT -5
Sure, and this just gives me a chance to say that what I said wasn't intended as figure you can take to the bank, hehe Yeah, I figured. But it always amazes me how scientist can in all seriousness come up with such specific numbers. It's interesting how the number's changed over the course of history, and given that there's no current theoretical consensus backed by observation on what 95% of the Universe is comprised of, it's likely to change, and the current mystery of "dark energy/matter" is directly related to the changing age number. But if you shift scale from the Universe to the Solar System, the science is far more settled, and one of the reasons that they get confident in the numbers is a multi-discipline convergence on various observations: the particle physicist, the cosmologist and the geologist each have very intricate and detailed models that don't depend on one another and that wind up in the same ballpark.
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