dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Jul 10, 2010 15:44:07 GMT -5
About a week ago, i was eating a piece of hubby's birthday cake... and i was just wolfing it down, when the thought arose: am i even enjoying this? That slowed me down and i investigated. The conclusion was surprising: there was enjoyment, but it wasn't Mine! Enjoyment was 'there' but it wasn't connected in any way to what i thought was 'me'. Hmm. So interesting that i just had to try it again with a piece of chocolate. And yup, eating chocolate definitely generated pleasure, but it didn't belong to anyone. I've been investigating all feelings and sensations this week, and in all cases, at the center of the sensation is emptiness. There is no identity in the feelings, no connection to whatever it was i thought i was. I investigate the feeling of "me" that appears in my chest... empty! Calling that feeling "me" is a habit. I could call it "Genevieve" or "Bob" and it wouldn't be any more me than it is now. Hmm... Finally the question "Who am i, really?" is meaningful. Unanswered but meaningful. I ask the question over and over and if a feeling or sensation offers itself, i investigate until i get to the emptiness. I am not a feeling or a sensation. Not my body, not my feelings, not my thoughts. What in heck am i? And who's asking?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 10, 2010 16:03:30 GMT -5
Dei: Wonderful! You're moving 100 mph in the right direction. Stay with it!
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Post by loverofall on Jul 10, 2010 16:22:49 GMT -5
Yes Dei, sounds like great stuff. Got me to pay attention more as I ate today.
Taste and smell are too senses I need to use more to get out of my mind. There is always a smell or taste sensed if I look close enough.
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Post by charliegee on Jul 11, 2010 1:34:08 GMT -5
just ate a half-dozen White Castles and someone/something is experiencing gastric distress ...
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Post by enigma on Jul 11, 2010 12:31:39 GMT -5
just ate a half-dozen White Castles and someone/something is experiencing gastric distress ... Sounds like an asymmetrical experience.
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Post by peanut on Jul 11, 2010 14:30:01 GMT -5
Thanks dei...great post...am getting that there is no inhertently existent 'I.' It appears to be solid and exist from it's own side but with investigation that is not true.... using the question all through the day is helpful and insights occur ..also find that if asked during formal sitting meditation something else occurs... it feels more like a resting ..an awareness..an unexplainable peace..
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Post by unveilable on Jul 11, 2010 15:32:34 GMT -5
Wow Dei that is so exciting! I hope you post an update. Im not quite where you are but today I did catch myself saying "I am chubby" only I instantly realized how absurd that was. I could never be chubby. Its just not possible.
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Jul 12, 2010 12:00:58 GMT -5
It has been quite interesting (to whom?) lately. Yesterday while sitting in meditation with ZD and Seaside (heh, blessed am i not?) something Balked. Did not want to DO practice anymore... no more investigating, no more questions... and yet... didn't want to NOT DO either. Dunno what's up with that... i told it to just wake up then. Haven't yet. But then last night... yet another interesting if rather unnerving thing... my little dogs seemed very agitated by the thunderstorm... and suddenly i realized i was making up that story. That whatever it was they were Doing... they weren't doing it anyway and there was absolutely no story about it. It's incomprehensible (my new mantra it seems today). So as they cuddled up to this body... it wasn't about affection or fear or any of those concepts. And it occurred to me that the sweet dog who was licking my neck could suddenly just bite it, because what do i know about the dog's motivation? I just have stories that my mind made up. In incomprehensible land, anything could happen... and i just have to trust that it is good stuff. Making me realize that i've been mis-using the word "trust" much of the time because it's not really trust if you are just using your story to predict a good outcome. Trust is surrender to whatever. So that's today... Incomprehensible... trusting in whatever with no story. And still not awake.
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Post by frankshank on Jul 12, 2010 12:58:58 GMT -5
Dei: Your real world examples are really helpful. Keep em coming!
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Jul 14, 2010 0:08:58 GMT -5
Hi Frank! That's so good to hear because honestly i have lurked on the board for awhile but i don't post much because what good could my experiences or insights be when we have zd and enigma etc. who KNOW... but maybe it's ok for me to post... better than my posting this stuff on Facebook where they really aren't getting it. So i have got to share this story because otherwise i'm gonna be re-writing it in my head thru meditation time tomorrow. Today i decided i could have a couple of cheetos... it will come as little surprise that this body has weight issues (you're right, unveilable... "I" am not chubby, but this body.. well yeah it is)... anyway "I" decided "I" could have a few cheetos... i ate one consciously... noticing the nice crunch, the subtle smush and the little bitter taste of cheese, and the enjoyment that was present yet empty. Great. Then i went back to doing computer stuff only to discover a few minutes later that my right hand was JAMMING fistfuls of cheetos into my mouth. WTF. *lol* Honestly i didn't want a mouthful of cheetos, and i needed my right hand for typing... but before i could swallow the mouthful and lick my fingers... another fistful was being stuffed in my mouth. SHEESH. I finally put the bag away... it was like taking it away from a child. It felt like IT was waiting for "my" inattention to sneak mass quantities into my body, knowing "i" wouldn't approve. Here i am looking for non-duality and instead i seem to be fragmenting into various parts... my hands have become some familiar looking aliens... i find myself fascinated by watching them perform... look at them typing! Wow... i can't do that. Can anyone explain what is going on? or is it just Incomprehensible? I can accept that.
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Post by enigma on Jul 14, 2010 3:18:54 GMT -5
Hehe. I know it's not funny, Dei, but it is, probly because I can identify. I did some research about a year ago, for one of my businesses, and I used myself as the guinea pig. I didn't really have any great desire to lose weight but i ended up losing 60 pounds. I'm 55 and now I'm back to my college weight. Sounds like an advertisement, but the point is I was researching the physical and psychological factors involved in cravings rather than anything involving control of eating habits. The basis was the idea that if the approach is not virtually effortless, it will fail because the mind is forced into conflict. Since mind and body are not separate, not only the subconscious mind but the body as well, will conspire to sabotage those self control efforts, as you describe and in many other ways. There are lots of common dieting misconceptions that are actually mind looking for ways to sabotage it's own efforts. The weight loss 'wall', losing muscle, sluggish metabolism, starvation mode are all mentally caused physiological effects. When the physical and psychological cravings are addressed directly, the effort is eliminated or greatly reduced, and there is no internal conflict, so there's no unconscious sabotaging. Spiritual work needs to be approached in the same way. The moment effort and self discipline become a major factor in our spiritual practice, an internal conflict is created and failure is typically the result. (Thought control is a good example) From my perspective, when a practice is actually successful, it's not the result of the control but rather the effortless attention that accompanies such practices. Something is noticed.
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Post by frankshank on Jul 14, 2010 4:28:24 GMT -5
Hi Dei. Your input is just as important as anybody elses. I've certainly got something out of your posts and enjoyed the read. As for you and your cheetos - very funny. It must have been a weird experience for you. It certainly seems like you're on the right track. If you have a choice buy smaller packets so that the hand that delves can't get in there!
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Post by unveilable on Jul 14, 2010 5:04:01 GMT -5
Im with frankshank. I found your real everyday experiences very helpful and just a good read!
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Jul 14, 2010 13:46:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the support, everyone. Mostly i find all this extremely amusing. I didn't intend for this thread to be about food (oh didn't i? why name it cake then?) but let's go there. A month or so ago i realized that since "i" am not the "Doer" then it's NOT Deirdre who overeats... it's THAT which obviously is enjoying the experience of struggling with weight issues, dieting and binging etc., and as zd pointed out when i mentioned it to him... if something is feeling guilty... that's THAT too. So i have released my guilt about being fat, and still intend to release the fat itself because it's not particularly healthy. I have lost 65 pounds over the last three years (since moving to the woods) but it has been a struggle of deprivation, disgust and disappointment when i fail to stick to the diet and pride and relief when a pound is gone. Sick of it, the last six weeks or so i'm doing a binge/starve yoyo thing in order to maintain and also have some pleasure from things like cake and cheetos before i start dieting again. So, Enigma... i want to know a LOT more about the effortless direct addressing of cravings, please! A couple of times when i was young (once in college, once just before my wedding) i found myself 'in touch' with my body and knew what it wanted to eat, ate that, stopped when it was full and watched the pounds melt away. But i don't know how to capture that in-touchness. I had hoped for awhile that Awakening would also be the end of desire/cravings etc. and that the body would naturally return to a proportional weight once Deirdre was out of the picture... then realizing it's never been Deirdre, i gave up that hope... and yet... well you know i just DON'T KNOW... it's incomprehensible. So tell me! More on my alien hands one of these days too... they really are so not-me... and when did they get old when i didn't?
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Post by peanut on Jul 14, 2010 19:30:17 GMT -5
Enigma,
"Spiritual work needs to be approached in the same way. The moment effort and self discipline become a major factor in our spiritual practice, an internal conflict is created and failure is typically the result. (Thought control is a good example) From my perspective, when a practice is actually successful, it's not the result of the control but rather the effortless attention that accompanies such practices. Something is noticed."
Thanks. i just wrote to 2 people on the forum. There was way too much efforting and failure and frustration was occurring. Once there was relaxation ,what you call effortless attention, joy was back in the practice. Could feel the shift.
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