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Post by enigma on Jul 14, 2010 22:13:04 GMT -5
Enigma, "Spiritual work needs to be approached in the same way. The moment effort and self discipline become a major factor in our spiritual practice, an internal conflict is created and failure is typically the result. (Thought control is a good example) From my perspective, when a practice is actually successful, it's not the result of the control but rather the effortless attention that accompanies such practices. Something is noticed." Thanks. i just wrote to 2 people on the forum. There was way too much efforting and failure and frustration was occurring. Once there was relaxation ,what you call effortless attention, joy was back in the practice. Could feel the shift. Great. Yeah, there's something fundamental in efortlessness that bypasses the split mind that keeps us at war with ourselves. Naturally, it's not limited to what we might call spiritual work. Dei, you can read about it here: www.weightlossprogramiri.com/It's not a commerce site, so I hope it's okay. I'm Dean Reynolds.... I mean, I'm not, but I am.
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dei
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Post by dei on Jul 16, 2010 10:20:45 GMT -5
Thank you, enigma! for the link, which i think will be helpful and even more for "effortless" because i've been sitting with that for a day now...
Yesterday while watching a tape of Gangaji, i realized that the only thing that was 'here' in this room was Hereness... not things... not persons... just HEREness. So i was sitting with that and effortlessness this morning and recognized that the only hurdle to that was SPECIAL. I have been burdened by the deep seated belief that i am SPECIAL... every since i was a tiny kid... high iq... very special... and i bought it... and other people reinforced it... and i've been proving it ever since. Entwined in that belief is the Fear that i am NOT SPECIAL... so tightly tied together is the belief and the fear that it must be approached like the Gordian Knot.
I am NOT SPECIAL! omg it is SUCH a relief! Nothing to prove... nothing to be... talk about effortless... Whew!
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dei
Junior Member
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Post by dei on Jul 16, 2010 10:57:16 GMT -5
Ah... heres' the corollary to not special: who would love me if i wasn't special? "they" only love me because i'm special... there's the fear.
And of course... since i'm NOT special, they must love me just because i'm in form... and if not... then it's their problem, not mine. I don't have to earn love by being special. Relief again.
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Post by enigma on Jul 16, 2010 16:47:30 GMT -5
And maybe the next step; What good is love that has to be earned? Is it really Love? does Love have anything to do with the person who is doing the loving? Can you even give Love or receive Love, or is Love something more fundamental? Could it be that You ARE Love and Love happens in spite of the 'you' you think you are? Could Love be impersonal?
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Post by synapticrythms on Jul 17, 2010 13:48:16 GMT -5
Special = a separate me
Unconditional Love must love unconditionally, and therefore, is the most impersonal of impersonal as the personality has nothing to do with it. Osho put it that Love simply flowers because that is its nature.
Special love is actually a form of hate and fear as it limits the "love" you experience to one thing or person, which then also must be limited in order to "love" it in a limited way. That love is a limitation on everything that a something could be, because it effectively blocks all other possibilities for growth of the other thing into something different.
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Post by enigma on Jul 17, 2010 15:44:10 GMT -5
"Unconditional Love must love unconditionally, and therefore, is the most impersonal of impersonal as the personality has nothing to do with it. Osho put it that Love simply flowers because that is its nature. "
Zakly.
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Post by peanut on Jul 17, 2010 16:35:30 GMT -5
Real love is impersonal. What we usually call love is an attachment or conditional..have experienced it both ways. Real love just pours out when 'i' get out of the way and it feels so different.
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Post by enigma on Jul 17, 2010 16:50:48 GMT -5
It's very cool that folks know this.
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dei
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Post by dei on Jul 18, 2010 12:42:07 GMT -5
Great discussion of Love... and it was understood that the fears surrounding the idea of love had nothing to do with Love Itself... only about the ego's fear. Yes Love must be impersonal, just as God is impersonal... and the two mean the same thing... i assume since i'm not yet at a place of Knowing. So i have been sitting with not-special for a day or two... first there was a period of mourning. Sadness arose at the supposed loss of the specialness i thought i was. But of course that was empty and it passed. Now the thought "There is no one special here" is the theme of my meditations... it leads to 'there is no one here' and that i am no-thing. Reminding me of Emily thingyinson's (omg this is so funny! Can't use the first syllable of her name because it refers to a male body part? *lol*) wonderful poem: I'm nobody! Who are you? Are you nobody, too? Then there's a pair of us -don't tell! They'd banish us, you know. How dreary to be somebody! How public, like a frog To tell your name the livelong day To an admiring bog! What makes me laugh the most is that i thought enlightened persons were special! Ha! How is it that people are encouraged to worship gurus who are nothing? Oh well that's just a thought... nothing to do with me... just funny. I told ZD a few weeks ago that i didn't worship him... i know he was crushed. *lol* Waking up sure is slow in this empty individualized nothingness. Where is Oneness?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 18, 2010 13:31:28 GMT -5
Oneness is present saying, "Waking up sure is slow in this empty individualized nothingness. Where is Oneness?" LOL
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dei
Junior Member
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Post by dei on Jul 18, 2010 14:45:55 GMT -5
*lol* yes sir
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Jul 24, 2010 17:34:33 GMT -5
Whether it's a process or not... certainly i have been feeling processed for the last couple of weeks... i've been asking "who am i?" and finding emptiness at the end of each investigation, finally realizing that the question itself makes the subject "i" into an object and empties any possible outcome. So back to "who's asking?" and around in circles goes the tail-chasing.
Ah but this afternoon... relaxing into "just see what's there... don't look... just see"... being the emptiness which is at the core of every question anyway... ahhh... SEEING was seeing. HEARING was hearing and BREATHING was breathing. Showering showered just now and something watched but it wasn't me i don't think (no i don't mean there was a peeping tom *lol*). Moments only... momentous and trivial.
(just needed to post this because posting posts i guess)
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dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by dei on Aug 6, 2010 21:22:48 GMT -5
I hate to start a new thread so i'll just post in here... What would i call a new thread? DIE DIE DIE perhaps?
My inner guru said "let go" for many months until watching a Gangaji video in which someone remarked "there isn't anyone holding on" which made me blink and I.G. immediately switched to "no more" from then on... today... i was willing to look at death... (physical or egoic... can't really say "i'll agree to this kind but not that" can one?) and i could see how death sets one free... especially free of "the future"... i also kept recognizing a persistent "this" which would not let go and i knew it would be there when i opened my eyes and yup it was/is... ain't enlightened or dead yet. (*lol*) Really came to grips with the idea that there is NO FUTURE... Now unfolds eternally but there's no dividing line and the future will never exist (poorly put, please don't eat me). There's no future for Deirdre... Deirdre dies eventually in any case. I was willing to physically die... for 'me' i could see how freeing that is... but of course i don't want to cause grief to my family.
Anyway... the issue is that Inner Guru has begun a new admonition: DIE! Even though i know why It's saying that... it is really unnerving... especially as a metaphysician. Maybe it'll work. (yikes? *lol*)... maybe IG will find a new phrase soon. Meanwhile i guess i'll play with "who is unnerved"? and 'dying dies'...
comments welcome...
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