The illusion of control

[frankshank]

I'm doing absolutely zilch with my life at the moment. I left my last job in 2005. Various things have happened that have contributed to this lull. I've read loads on this website and in books that we have no control. Based on this franks life doesn't really matter does it?! We're all just trees blowing in the wind. We have no decisions to make. Am I right in thinking what the heck or do I make an effort to do something with my life even though there is no personal doer?

[zendancer]

Frank: From the tone of your post (LOL) I think you should check out despair.com--one of the funniest websites on the net. (I particularly like their newest tee shirt--"once you drive a Toyota you'll never stop".)

On a more serious note, the control/no control issue is just a mindgame--a set of logical abstractions leading to various possible conclusions. What is the truth? When your body gets hungry and decides that it wants to eat something, who makes the decision about what to eat? Who is the actor standing behind the apparent phenomena? If you want to understand, you will have to get out of the mind. You know who the fake Frank is, but who is the real Frank? Who is the one who is really running the show? Become still and look within. Ironically, the one who calls itself "Frank" isn't Frank. Cheers.

[lightmystic]

To say that there is no doer just refers to what happens when we take the idea of doership away. It doesn't mean overlaying our natural feeling of doership with some idea of nondoership. You should go for what you want. Find out what hurts and start looking into that.

You could also off yourself. But I would recommend going to despair.com instead. I think ZD made a great suggestion there. You might appreciate that a lot.

Mar 9, 2010 8:50:08 GMT -5 frankshank said:

I'm doing absolutely zilch with my life at the moment. I left my last job in 2005. Various things have happened that have contributed to this lull. I've read loads on this website and in books that we have no control. Based on this franks life doesn't really matter does it?! We're all just trees blowing in the wind. We have no decisions to make. Am I right in thinking what the heck or do I make an effort to do something with my life even though there is no personal doer?

[frankshank]

Thanks for referring me to despair.com, it's a great site lol. The thing is I'm not depressed; I'm happy!! Even though I'm happy I do feel as though I should be doing something with my life which is why I'm trying to get someone (even though there's only one) to agree that I have no choice anyway lol!!!

[frankshank]

Mar 9, 2010 9:18:57 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Frank: From the tone of your post (LOL) I think you should check out despair.com--one of the funniest websites on the net. (I particularly like their newest tee shirt--"once you drive a Toyota you'll never stop".)

On a more serious note, the control/no control issue is just a mindgame--a set of logical abstractions leading to various possible conclusions. What is the truth? When your body gets hungry and decides that it wants to eat something, who makes the decision about what to eat? Who is the actor standing behind the apparent phenomena? If you want to understand, you will have to get out of the mind. You know who the fake Frank is, but who is the real Frank? Who is the one who is really running the show? Become still and look within. Ironically, the one who calls itself "Frank" isn't Frank. Cheers.

Some great T shirts ZD!! I want them all

[zendancer]

Frank: So, all you've got to do is get rid of the idea that you need to do be doing something. LOL. Have you seen the movie "I heart Huckabees?" If so, then remember the conversation between the two guys sitting on the log slugging each other? Get a boxing glove and every time you have the thought, "I should be doing something with my life," hit yourself in the face. The guys on the log thanked each other for getting rid of their thoughts in this manner. It might work like matter that collides with anti-matter. Frank gets hit by anti-Frank and they both disappear. This could be a new and improved path to enlightenment!

[Portto]

I've seen the movie. Really hilarious - but this is all I can remember about it. Zendancer has an exceptional memory.

The above-mentioned approach will certainly work - but requires a lot of courage and despair (.com)
If you're not up to it, better try body and breath awareness - as ZD recommends.
Or, you can try to focus very intensely on some work that you're good at. Angst and self-awareness (awareness of separation) will vanish... Or just take a nap!

[frankshank]

Thanks for the advice guys (I've ordered the DVD on the cheap lol). Aren't you all suggesting I do something in order to deal with the situation though? There's no Frank to do anything is there?! Isn't this whole process of seeking advice and receiving advice part of the illusion?!

[zendancer]

Too many ideas. Be still. Shhhhhhhhh..............

[frankshank]

Mar 9, 2010 20:47:23 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Too many ideas. Be still. Shhhhhhhhh..............

If I was after a quiet mind I'd just stay away from this site ZD!

[lightmystic]

Hey frank,

There is no "not-frank" either. That's more a conceptual thing. Feelings of individuality still arise, but they are recognized to be yet another impersonal thing in Awareness. So there is every bit as much "Frank" as there are "other things". It's just that, upon directly realizing that who we thought we were is an identification with a thought, then the whole thought structure gets called into question. "There is no you" is a pointer. It's not really valid as an idea any more than the idea that there IS a you is valid. Is that making any sense?

Mar 9, 2010 16:43:03 GMT -5 frankshank said:

Thanks for the advice guys (I've ordered the DVD on the cheap lol). Aren't you all suggesting I do something in order to deal with the situation though? There's no Frank to do anything is there?! Isn't this whole process of seeking advice and receiving advice part of the illusion?!

[frankshank]

Mar 10, 2010 11:21:30 GMT -5 lightmystic said:

Hey frank,

There is no "not-frank" either. That's more a conceptual thing. Feelings of individuality still arise, but they are recognized to be yet another impersonal thing in Awareness. So there is every bit as much "Frank" as there are "other things". It's just that, upon directly realizing that who we thought we were is an identification with a thought, then the whole thought structure gets called into question. "There is no you" is a pointer. It's not really valid as an idea any more than the idea that there IS a you is valid. Is that making any sense?

Mar 9, 2010 16:43:03 GMT -5 frankshank said:

Thanks for the advice guys (I've ordered the DVD on the cheap lol). Aren't you all suggesting I do something in order to deal with the situation though? There's no Frank to do anything is there?! Isn't this whole process of seeking advice and receiving advice part of the illusion?!

Hi LM. That makes sense to me on a conceptual level. Thanks for the explanation.

[question]

Hey Frank, I'm like you, I don't have much to do and most of the time I'm really happy with how life is treating me.

But sometimes, when I visit this forum, I almost feel bad about my unenlightened happiness. In almost every enlightenment story there is some serious crisis prior to the breakthrough. And that makes me wonder, can happy people become enlightened?

[karen]

I'm curious about this happiness you speak. I *think* life has been good to me as well, but for whatever reason, it ain't enough for me which breeds the feelings of pain. If I felt satisfied, I'm sure I wouldn't be here.

But no need to feel bad about about your happiness my friend. Smoke it if you've got it.

[frankshank]

Mar 10, 2010 20:49:02 GMT -5 question said:

Hey Frank, I'm like you, I don't have much to do and most of the time I'm really happy with how life is treating me.

But sometimes, when I visit this forum, I almost feel bad about my unenlightened happiness. In almost every enlightenment story there is some serious crisis prior to the breakthrough. And that makes me wonder, can happy people become enlightened?

Hi Question. I don't think happiness is an obstacle to enlightenment. If you feel happy there's surely less chance of you falling into the seeking trap. It becomes less about imagining how good you're going to feel in the future when you're enlightened and more about just enjoying the present moment!