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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 5, 2024 16:22:10 GMT -5
To that last one, if you’ve read Katsumi Sekida’s book on Zen practice and the breathing techniques that he teaches very concisely you will recognize that breath technique. The best technique I’ve used for entering into a deep state of Samadhi… Thanks, yes, I have it, have read it. Edit: Let me correct myself. I only got through to page 52, that's where I stopped underlining. We were taught we could study anything, but only to practice Work practices. One thing we were taught was not to alter breathing by any means of direct control with the mind. That is, we shouldn't try to override the working of the autonomic nervous system, as it works quite well on its own, and trying to control it, directly, can "mess up" (my words) the natural process, ordinary breathing (source, Meetings With Remarkable Men). We were taught to only alter breathing by means of physical exercise, making demands on the body gets oxygen to all the cells, and alternatively, through relaxation. But a primary practice is conscious breathing, watching the breath. ...I'll give it a look and catch up on your latest posts-quotes, have not read them yet. ...the book got packed away in 2017, recently unpacked. But I think it just went way back up on my reading list. |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 5, 2024 18:00:19 GMT -5
... I was waiting-hoping inavalan would inform us about the meaning of the Sanskrit word dvadasanta. ... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 5, 2024 18:34:25 GMT -5
... I was waiting-hoping inavalan would inform us about the meaning of the Sanskrit word dvadasanta. ... Yes. (The mentioned reviewer was 1/3 correct). |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 7, 2024 1:14:37 GMT -5
Yes. (The mentioned reviewer was 1/3 correct). ===================================================== सर्वतः स्वशरीरस्य द्वादशान्ते मनोलयात्। दृढबुद्धेर् दृढीभूतं तत्त्वलक्ष्यम् प्रवर्तते॥ ५०॥ sarvataḥ svaśarīrasya dvādaśānte manolayāt| dṛḍhabuddher dṛḍhībhūtaṁ tattvalakṣyam pravartate || 50 || विऻानभैरि तन्त्रम ् Vijnana Bhairava Tantra When the mind is dissolved in dwadashanta by steady
awareness and steady practice, the true nature or essence of
the goal manifests everywhere in one's body.
Vijnanabhairava - Jaideva Singh When the body of the yogi is penetrated by consciousness
in all parts and his mind which has become firm by one-
pointedness (drdhlbhutaip) is dissolved in the dvadaianta
situated in the body, then that yogi whose intellect has
become firm experiences the characteristic of Reality.Vigyan Bhairava Tantra: 112 Meditations for Self Realization - Ranjit Chaudhri Absorb the mind completely at the center of one’s body,
where the inhaled breath ends. From steadiness in concentration,
one becomes steady in mind, and then ones true nature is
perceived.===================================================== यथा तथा यत्र तत्र द्वादशान्ते मनः क्षिपेत्॥ प्रतिक्षणं क्षीणवृत्तेर् वैलक्षण्यं दिनैर् भवेत्॥ ५१॥ yathā tathā yatra tatra dvādaśānte manaḥ kṣipet|| pratikṣaṇaṁ kṣīṇavṛtter vailakṣaṇyaṁ dinair bhavet|| 51 || विऻानभैरि तन्त्रम ् By bringing the mind forcibly to dwadashanta again and
again, however and wherever possible, the fluctuations of
the mind diminish day by day, so that each moment
becomes an extraordinary state.Jaideva Singh If one fixes one’s mind at dvádasanta1 again and again
(pratiksanaip) howsoever and wheresoever, the fluctuation of his
mind will diminish and in a few days, he will acquire an
extraordinary status.Ranjit Chaudhri During every moment of the day, in whatever way, in
whatever place, fix one’s attention between two breaths. The
mind will be deprived of the means of support, and in a few days,
one will be free. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 16, 2024 11:06:07 GMT -5
Yes. (The mentioned reviewer was 1/3 correct). The pertinent part. dvadasanta is “the end of 12” - one of the dvadasantas is 12 finger’s width above the head. Yogis can feel this space, often even beginners. Note that there are multiple dvadasantas refered to in the VBT. Lorin |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 16, 2024 15:26:10 GMT -5
Yes. (The mentioned reviewer was 1/3 correct). The pertinent part. dvadasanta is “the end of 12” - one of the dvadasantas is 12 finger’s width above the head. Yogis can feel this space, often even beginners. Note that there are multiple dvadasantas refered to in the VBT. Lorin - “Wherever you may be, whatever you may be doing, cast your attention into the dvadasanta. As your mental agitation dissolves moment by moment, you will be transformed in a matter of days.”
--- Rajanaka Ksemaraja, translated by Christopher Wallis, "The Recognition Sutras"
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Post by sharon on Oct 17, 2024 2:05:35 GMT -5
The pertinent part. dvadasanta is “the end of 12” - one of the dvadasantas is 12 finger’s width above the head. Yogis can feel this space, often even beginners. Note that there are multiple dvadasantas refered to in the VBT. Lorin - “Wherever you may be, whatever you may be doing, cast your attention into the dvadasanta. As your mental agitation dissolves moment by moment, you will be transformed in a matter of days.”
--- Rajanaka Ksemaraja, translated by Christopher Wallis, "The Recognition Sutras"
Transformed into what? |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 17, 2024 3:29:20 GMT -5
- “Wherever you may be, whatever you may be doing, cast your attention into the dvadasanta. As your mental agitation dissolves moment by moment, you will be transformed in a matter of days.”
--- Rajanaka Ksemaraja, translated by Christopher Wallis, "The Recognition Sutras"
into what? "within a few days you can indeed experience an altered state, one that includes greater awareness of the energy-body" This the context: - By thoroughly dissolving the mind into the dvādaśānta of one’s own body, the goal of Reality becomes certain for one of steady discernment. || 50
Wherever you may be, whatever you may be doing, cast your attention into the dvādaśānta. As your mental agitation dissolves moment by moment, you will be transformed in a matter of days. || 51
As noted, the dvādaśānta (literally, ‘end-of-twelve’) is the uppermost limit of the energy-body, depicted in many religions as a halo. The literal meaning derives from using the width of a finger as a measurement; twelve finger-widths being about eight inches above the head. The exact measurement is not too important, however. As the verse suggests, you can simply practice casting your attention to the point that feels like that upper limit. To experience the transformation the verse promises, however, you must do the practice constantly: whenever you notice you’re having a thought that you don’t absolutely need to be having, you throw your attention up to the dvādaśānta. If you do this a hundred times a day or more, within a few days you can indeed experience an altered state, one that includes greater awareness of the energy-body. But the purpose of citing the verse here is again simply to establish the significance of the dvādaśānta.
Kṣemarāja invites us to experience the relationship between these two subtle points, connected by the movement of prāṇa. The practice he gives is much more effective than either of the two Vijñāna-Bhairava verses he cites considered separately. However, as I mentioned, that scripture does have a well-known verse (or two) that gives almost exactly the same practice, curiously not cited by Kṣema:
The Supreme Goddess [constantly] articulates herself as the life-giving flow of breath: the exhale rising up, and the inhale—the movement into embodiment— descending. By pausing at the two points of their arising, and filling them [with silent awareness], [one abides in] the still state of fullness. || 24
By not turning back the inner and outer breaths too soon from the pair of spaces [where the breath pauses], the still space of awareness underlying the movement of prāṇa is revealed. || 25 .
The only nuance Kṣema has added to the practice as given in these two verses is that we are invited to pay attention not only to the pause between the breaths, but also to the emerging of the breath-energy after each pause, and the coming to rest of the breath-energy just before each pause. Thus the spatial elements of the heart and the dvādaśānta are more significant than in the verses just above, for it is at those points that the breath-energy emerges and comes to rest. For this reason Kṣema calls the practice ādyanta-koṭi-nibhālana, ‘focusing on the beginning and ending points’.
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Post by inavalan on Oct 17, 2024 15:24:10 GMT -5
- द्वादशन् dvādaśan [dva-daśan] num. * pl. douze || lat. duadecim
द्व dva cf. dvi
द्वि dvi num. * du. deux || gr. δυο; lat. duo; ang. two; all. zwei; fr. deux
दशन् daśan num. * le nombre dix || gr. δεκα; lat. decem; ang. ten; all. zehn; fr. dix.
द्वादश dvādaśa [dvādaśan] a. m. n. f. dvādaśī ord. 12e | en 12 parties ; 12 fois ; augmenté de 12 — n. douzaine — f. dvādaśī astr. 12e jour d'une quinzaine | soc. jour de fête du 12e jour de la quinzaine claire [śuklapakṣa], préparant le festival de pleine lune ; il est consacré à la tulasī ; phālgunī dvādaśī inaugure le festival de holī | soc. jour de fête du 12e jour de la quinzaine sombre [kṛṣṇapakṣa] ; cf. gurudvādaśī
dvādaśānta [anta] m. phil. [Trika] centre psychique [cakra] situé à 12 doigts au dessus du brahmarandhra
अन्त anta m. vicinité, proximité | limite ; bord, lisière, bout, terme, fin ; mort | délivrance, solution, issue — ifc. se terminant par, qui s'achève en <iic.> ; le dernier des <iic.> | qui a pour but ou pour issue <iic.> — v. [11] pr. (antayati) mette fin à, terminer || lat. ante; ang. end; all. Ende
So, "dvādaśānta" means "in the proximity of the 12th". It might not have anything to do with a point 12 finger widths (or about 8 inches) above the top of the head. It could as well be pointing to the "noon" (12 o'clock) vertical drawn through the top of the head. But, some interpretations might be close to the deeper meaning, and point to useful guidance. |
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Post by lolly on Oct 18, 2024 5:12:49 GMT -5
My opinion is this gives undue importance to something, and I'm completely unaware of a magical point somewhere above my head. If I'm not aware of it, I can't observe it, so I have to imagine something, but that's not real. Hence, I think breath awareness is better, because anyone can feel it, and it's really there, for sure. I know that's not as spectacular as a magical spiritual thing perhaps in existence above my head, so I lose the comparison on being tantalising, but what if there's nothing there, and you're being led down the garden path? Indeed, the promise that one will be transformed in no time reeks of false promise, but high hopes are strong motivation.
Colour me skeptical.
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