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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 3, 2024 22:09:42 GMT -5
I grew up near the city of Fremantle in Western Australia. During the late 1970's, when I was finishing high school, Fremantle was a major centre for followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who later became Osho. Outside of Poona in India, Fremantle was the largest collection of what us locals called "orange people" globally. Later, Bhagwan changed his name to Osho, and the community set up in Antelope, Oregon, in the US precipitating all sorts of mayhem, and leading to Osho being charged with tax evasion and so on. It is a pretty well known story and there is a quite compelling documentary on Netflix called "Wild Wild West". it seems that after the move to Antelope, Osha became more and more removed from the group, taking a vow of silence and making fewer and fewer public appearances, while Prem Sheila and others battled for control and power in the group. As a teenager in Freo (the locals name for Fremantle, following the Aussie tradition of shortening names and putting an -o on the end) the orange people were both fascinating and intimidating. They were irreverent, they took drugs, they indulged in casual sex (lots of it) and were generally seen as outrageous hedonists by the conservative Fremantle population. They also started numerous businesses, some of which have lasted to this day, and were very conspicuous due to their orange/saffron clothing. There was more to them than meets the eye. Osho, prior to becoming a guru and leader of a so-called cult, was an academic and scholar of Vedic philosophy. There is no doubting his intellect and understanding of the Hindu scriptures. So, bearing in mind that we should not have any bias towards pleasure or pain, but treat them equally, and the so-called "left-hand path of tantra' is as valid as the more conventional tradition, how do most people here view Osho? Was he an enlightened master with an unconventional approach? Was he a charlatan? Was he somewhere in between? I've read some of his works, and he certainly had an intellectual handle on advaita. Was he the real deal or not? I'd love to hear people's views. Get a book called: “The Book of Secrets” by Osho Read it and form your own opinion…he was a gifted teacher. With regard to enlightenment, he certainly understands the nature of things. Style is style, not dictated by understanding. He was definately fervently unconventional. He said of his teaching style: ‘The west focuses too much on the physical, the east focuses too much on the spiritual, I want create a WHOLE human, with balance of the two’ he believed very strongly in LIVING this life FULLY engaged in every way, as both a physical individual aware of their oneness with all there is. What does he say about 50 and 51, the dvadasanta? |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 4, 2024 5:40:38 GMT -5
Osho was many things. But above all, he was a great grammarian...
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Post by inavalan on Oct 4, 2024 15:25:15 GMT -5
Get a book called: “The Book of Secrets” by Osho ... What does he say about 50 and 51, the dvadasanta? Looking up to see what you're referring to, I found this informative commentary about the "Vijaana Bhairava": will-the-real-vijaana-bhairava-please-stand-up |
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Post by steven on Oct 4, 2024 19:06:25 GMT -5
Get a book called: “The Book of Secrets” by Osho Read it and form your own opinion…he was a gifted teacher. With regard to enlightenment, he certainly understands the nature of things. Style is style, not dictated by understanding. He was definately fervently unconventional. He said of his teaching style: ‘The west focuses too much on the physical, the east focuses too much on the spiritual, I want create a WHOLE human, with balance of the two’ he believed very strongly in LIVING this life FULLY engaged in every way, as both a physical individual aware of their oneness with all there is. What does he say about 50 and 51, the dvadasanta? Are you talking about Sutra’s 50 and 51 in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, or some breath awareness techniques? 51: “A few more related techniques: On joyously seeing a long absent friend, permeate this joy. Enter this joy and become one with it – any joy, any happiness. This is just an example: On joyously seeing a long absent friend… Suddenly you see a friend you have not seen for many, many days or many, many years. A sudden joy grips you. But your attention will be on the friend, not on your joy. Then you are missing something, and this joy will be momentary. Your attention is focused on the “friend: you will start talking, remembering things, and you will miss this joy and this joy will go. When you see a friend and suddenly feel a joy arising in your heart, concentrate on this joy. Feel it and become it, and meet the friend while being aware and filled with your joy. Let the friend be just on the periphery, and you remain centered in your feeling of happiness. This can be done in many other situations. The sun is rising, and suddenly you feel something rising within you. Then forget the sun; let it remain on the periphery. You be centered in your own feeling of rising energy. The moment you look at it, it will spread. It will become your whole body, your whole being. And do not just be an observer of it; merge into it. There are very few moments when you feel joy, happiness, bliss, but you go on missing them because you become object-centered. Whenever there is joy, you feel that it is coming from without. You have met a friend: of course, it appears that the joy is coming from your friend, from seeing him. That is not the actual ” |
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Post by steven on Oct 4, 2024 19:18:57 GMT -5
“will have a different attitude about everything in life.
Even with negative emotions, do this. When you are
angry, do not be centered on the person who has aroused it. Let him be on the periphery. You just become anger. Feel anger in its totality; allow it to happen within. Don’t rationalize; don’t say that this man has created it. Do not condemn the man. He has just become the situation. And feel grateful towards him that he has helped something which was hidden to come into the open. He has hit you somewhere, and a wound was there hidden. Now you know it, so become the wound. With negative or positive, with any emotion, use this, and there will be a great change in you. If the emotion is negative, you will be freed of it by being aware that it is within you. If the emotion is positive, you will become the emotion itself. If it is joy, you will become joy. If it is anger, the anger will dissolve.
And this is the difference between negative and
positive emotions: if you become aware of a certain emotion, and by your
becoming aware the emotion dissolves, it “light in, the darkness is no more there, because, really, it was not. It was
negative, just an absence of light. But many things will become manifest which are there. Just by bringing in light, these shelves, these books, these walls, will not disappear. In darkness they were not; you could not see them. If you bring light in, darkness will be no more there, but that which is real will be revealed. Through awareness all that is negative like darkness will dissolve – hatred, anger, sadness, violence. Then love, joy, ecstasy, will, for the first time, become revealed to you.
So,
On joyously seeing a long absent friend, permeate this joy.”
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 4, 2024 19:28:09 GMT -5
What does he say about 50 and 51, the dvadasanta? Are you talking about Sutra’s 50 and 51 in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, or some breath awareness techniques? In the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra. I read a review of it (not the one Osho uses) and this one guy said in 50 and 51 the dvadasanta was not properly translated from the Sanskrit, he said it doesn't mean watching between the inbreath and the outbreath. Since, I read most of the article inavalan linked. Christopher Wallis (the link) says there isn't a single good translation of it from Sanskrit. I think that article is old, went to his website. Seems he now has translated from the Sanskrit, only on e-book, I think it says 30 hours of audio. He plans to eventually publish it in book form, paper. |
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Post by tenka on Oct 5, 2024 13:33:51 GMT -5
Like I always say, there has to be someone that can be a master and an enlightened one at that.
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 14:27:45 GMT -5
Are you talking about Sutra’s 50 and 51 in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, or some breath awareness techniques? In the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra. I read a review of it (not the one Osho uses) and this one guy said in 50 and 51 the dvadasanta was not properly translated from the Sanskrit, he said it doesn't mean watching between the inbreath and the outbreath. Since, I read most of the article inavalan linked. Christopher Wallis (the link) says there isn't a single good translation of it from Sanskrit. I think that article is old, went to his website. Seems he now has translated from the Sanskrit, only on e-book, I think it says 30 hours of audio. He plans to eventually publish it in book form, paper. 50 and 51 in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra deal with entering fully into emotion, and the other is one of the two tantric methods of the 112 that relate to sex as a meditation practice. The breath techniques are the 1st ones in the book…there are SEVERAL breath techniques. In one you watch for the empty space between two breaths and enter it. Which is essentially a Zazen breathing technique. In another you focus on and into the ‘turn’ from in breath to out breath and out breath to in breath. There are several variations on breath techniques in the 112 sutras. I personally trust OSHO’s interpretation and guides to the techniques…partly because he was an eminent scholar and fluent in Sandscrit…but also because he actually practiced all these techniques to fruition and has direct personal experience with them. So he isn’t a blind guy whose never seen the color ‘orange’ trying to translate the words for or describe the color orange. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 5, 2024 14:50:08 GMT -5
In the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra. I read a review of it (not the one Osho uses) and this one guy said in 50 and 51 the dvadasanta was not properly translated from the Sanskrit, he said it doesn't mean watching between the inbreath and the outbreath. Since, I read most of the article inavalan linked. Christopher Wallis (the link) says there isn't a single good translation of it from Sanskrit. I think that article is old, went to his website. Seems he now has translated from the Sanskrit, only on e-book, I think it says 30 hours of audio. He plans to eventually publish it in book form, paper. 50 and 51 in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra deal with entering fully into emotion, and the other is one of the two tantric methods of the 112 that relate to sex as a meditation practice. The breath techniques are the 1st ones in the book…there are SEVERAL breath techniques. In one you watch for the empty space between two breaths and enter it. Which is essentially a Zazen breathing technique. In another you focus on and into the ‘turn’ from in breath to out breath and out breath to in breath. There are several variations on breath techniques in the 112 sutras. I personally trust OSHO’s interpretation and guides to the techniques…partly because he was an eminent scholar and fluent in Sandscrit…but also because he actually practiced all these techniques to fruition and has direct personal experience with them. So he isn’t a blind guy whose never seen the color ‘orange’ trying to translate the words for or describe the color orange. Thanks. I was waiting-hoping inavalan would inform us about the meaning of the Sanskrit word dvadasanta. He's pretty good at finding that kind of thing. |
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 15:56:29 GMT -5
“3. Breath – A Bridge to the Universe
The Sutras:
Shiva replies:
Radiant one, this experience may dawn between two breaths. After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out) – the beneficence.
As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves from up to down – through both these turns, realize.
Or, whenever in-breath and out-breath fuse, at this instant touch the
energy-less, energy-filled center.
Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and
stopped – in such universal pause, one’s small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.”
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 16:00:44 GMT -5
““All these techniques of Shiva’s are simply turning the mind from the future or the past to the present. That which you are seeking is already there, it is the case already. The mind has to be turned from seeking to non-seeking. It is difficult. If you think about it intellectually it is very difficult. How to turn the mind from seeking to non-seeking? – because then the mind makes non-seeking itself the object! Then the mind says, “Don’t seek.” Then the mind says, “I should not seek.” Then the mind says, “Now non-seeking is my object. Now I desire the state of desirelessness.” The seeking has entered again, the desire has come again through the back door. That is why there are people who are seeking worldly objects, and there are people who think they are seeking non-worldly objects. All objects are worldly because “seeking” is the world. So you cannot seek anything non-worldly. The moment you seek, it becomes the world. If you are seeking godliness, your godliness is part of the world. If you are seeking moksha – liberation – nirvana, your liberation is part of the world, your liberation is not something[…]” Excerpt From The Book of Secrets Osho & Osho International Foundation books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-secrets/id525599053This material may be protected by copyright. |
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 16:03:53 GMT -5
“That is the technique: Radiant one, this experience may dawn between two breaths. After breath comes in – that is, down – and just before turning out – that is, going up – the beneficence. Be aware between these two points, and the happening. When your breath comes in, observe. For a single moment, or a thousandth part of a moment, there is no breathing – before it turns up, before it turns outward. One breath comes in; then there is a certain point and breathing stops. Then the breathing goes out. When the breath goes out, then again for a single moment, or a part of a moment, breathing stops. Then breathing comes in. Before the breath is turning in or turning out, there is a moment when you are not breathing. In that moment the happening is possible, because when you are not breathing you are not in the world. Understand this: when you are not breathing you are dead; you are still, but dead. But the moment is of such a short duration that you never observe it. For Tantra, each outgoing breath is a death and each new breath is a rebirth. Breath coming in is rebirth; breath going out[…]” Excerpt From The Book of Secrets Osho & Osho International Foundation books.apple.com/us/book/the-book-of-secrets/id525599053This material may be protected by copyright. |
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 16:08:01 GMT -5
“The second technique – all these nine techniques are concerned
with breath.
As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves from
up to down – through both these turns, realize.
It is the same, but with a slight difference. The
emphasis is now not on the gap, but on the turning. The outgoing and ingoing breath make a circle. Remember, these are not two parallel lines. We always think of them as two parallel lines – breath going in and breath going out. Do you think that these are two parallel lines? They are not. Breath going in is half the circle; breath going out is the other half of the circle.
So understand this: first, breathing in and out creates
a circle. They are not parallel lines, because parallel lines never meet
anywhere. Secondly, the breath coming in and the breath going out are not two breaths, they are one breath. The same breath which comes in, goes out, so it must have a turn inside. It must turn somewhere. There must be a point where the incoming breath becomes outgoing.
Why put such emphasis upon turning? Because, Shiva says,
As breath turns from down to up and again as breath curves from
up to down, through both these turns, realize.
Very simple, but he says: realize the turns and you will
realize the self.
Why the turn? If you know driving you know about gears.
Each time you change the gear, you have to pass through the neutral gear, which is not a gear at all. From the first gear you move to the second or from the second to the third, but always you have to move through the neutral gear. That
neutral gear is a turning point. In that turning point the first gear becomes the second and the second becomes the third. When your breath goes[…]”
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 16:14:37 GMT -5
“Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in
(down) and stopped – in such universal pause, one’s small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.”
But then it is difficult for everyone because, he says,
This is difficult only for the impure.
But who is the pure one? It is difficult for you; you cannot
practice it. But you can feel it sometimes suddenly. You are driving a car and suddenly you feel there is going to be an accident. Breathing will stop. If it is out, it will remain out. If it is in, it will remain in. You cannot breathe in such an emergency; you cannot afford it. Everything stops, departs.
Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in
(down) and stopped – in such universal pause, one’s small self vanishes.
Your small self is only a daily utility. In emergencies
you cannot remember it. Who you are – the name, the bank balance, the prestige, everything – just evaporates. Your car is just heading toward another car; another moment and there will be death. In this moment there will be a pause.
There are many stories that someone attained buddhahood
because the teacher suddenly started beating him. You cannot understand it – what nonsense! How can one attain buddhahood by being beaten by someone, or by being thrown out of the window by someone? Even if someone kills you, you
cannot attain buddhahood. But if you understand this technique, then it becomes easy to understand.
In the West particularly, in the last thirty or forty
years Zen has become very much prevalent – a fashion. But unless they know this technique, they cannot understand Zen. They can imitate it, but imitation is of no use. Rather, it is dangerous. These are not things to be imitated.
The whole Zen technique is based on the fourth
technique of Shiva.
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Post by steven on Oct 5, 2024 16:15:58 GMT -5
To that last one, if you’ve read Katsumi Sekida’s book on Zen practice and the breathing techniques that he teaches very concisely you will recognize that breath technique. The best technique I’ve used for entering into a deep state of Samadhi…
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