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Post by laughter on Jul 13, 2024 17:28:43 GMT -5
Polarity, like duality, is also a mind-made imaginary idea. It's okay to think that kind of thought, but it's certainly unnecessary. Take a pair of wire cutters, cut the power company seal off the latch of your meter-base. Take the cover off, open the latch, lift up from the bottom, the top will disengage. Hold the glass, push up firmly, that will disengage the meter from the bottom power stabs. Then pull the top of the meter from the top stabs, firmly pulling outward. Then stick your hand in there just about anywhere, but especially on the top lugs, where the electricity from the power company enters. Then come back and tell me polarity is imaginary. (You can actually touch the bottom lugs all you want, as they feed your house panel, they are not energized unless the meter is in place. You can actually touch the top lugs, but only one at a time, if you are not grounded, that is, if you are standing on insulating material, wood or rubber is good (I've seen my boss throw down a tire to stand on, at Gerrard Tire Co, and work a service hot), and you don't also touch the meter-base. I watched my boss do this a hundred times, once even in the pouring rain, he just made a plywood "umbrella"). We have to live in *this* world, not some airy-fairy castle in the clouds. You negate thousands of years of Taoism and Vedanta. The inbreath and the outbreath of Brahman, are polarities. You turn reality into a unicorn. No, the word is not-the-thing, but words can represent reality. The manifest universe is made-from polarities. I've been thrown across a room from a shock, it was a small panel room, so I was thrown only about six feet, against the opposite wall. I was pulling a fish-tape in a hot panel, a fish-tape sometimes has a mind of its own, I learned. Electricians, that don't understand polarity, don't live long, so it is necessary. Just because it's unnecessary doesn't mean it isn't sometimes useful.  |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 14, 2024 7:20:24 GMT -5
Take a pair of wire cutters, cut the power company seal off the latch of your meter-base. Take the cover off, open the latch, lift up from the bottom, the top will disengage. Hold the glass, push up firmly, that will disengage the meter from the bottom power stabs. Then pull the top of the meter from the top stabs, firmly pulling outward. Then stick your hand in there just about anywhere, but especially on the top lugs, where the electricity from the power company enters. Then come back and tell me polarity is imaginary. (You can actually touch the bottom lugs all you want, as they feed your house panel, they are not energized unless the meter is in place. You can actually touch the top lugs, but only one at a time, if you are not grounded, that is, if you are standing on insulating material, wood or rubber is good (I've seen my boss throw down a tire to stand on, at Gerrard Tire Co, and work a service hot), and you don't also touch the meter-base. I watched my boss do this a hundred times, once even in the pouring rain, he just made a plywood "umbrella"). We have to live in *this* world, not some airy-fairy castle in the clouds. You negate thousands of years of Taoism and Vedanta. The inbreath and the outbreath of Brahman, are polarities. You turn reality into a unicorn. No, the word is not-the-thing, but words can represent reality. The manifest universe is made-from polarities. I've been thrown across a room from a shock, it was a small panel room, so I was thrown only about six feet, against the opposite wall. I was pulling a fish-tape in a hot panel, a fish-tape sometimes has a mind of its own, I learned. Electricians, that don't understand polarity, don't live long, so it is necessary. Just because it's unnecessary doesn't mean it isn't sometimes useful. Correct. The thought and the reality are two different things. The thought is imaginary but useful for communication; the reality is what it is. The attachment to thoughts is the fundamental issue, and that's what is always being pointed to. It also helps to understand how the word "existence" relates to "what is." Not a single thing exists until an act of distinction brings forth something (some thing), imaginatively, from that which is non-dual and undivided. Animals directly know and interact with THIS, as THIS, through their senses. Humans, as THIS, tend to know and interact with their ideas about THIS. The ideas are always an overlay--the map rather than the territory. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 14, 2024 8:40:23 GMT -5
In spiritual conversations, there seems to have been....at least in my time....not much consensus on what the concept of 'duality' refers to. The way I generally use the word in a spiritual context is to talk about 'presence/absence'...so all experience has a 'dualistic' aspect, in that what is experienced is defined in relation to what is not experienced i.e presence/absence. So I experience a 'car' and that experience also contains the entirely of all that is NOT 'car', both in terms of what we know and all that is not known. To express that another way, every experience is both full and empty. Then there's the concept of 'polarity', which I see as a bit different from 'duality'. I see polarities as opposite measurements, like 'left/right', 'up/down'. I don't see feeling/emotion as a polarity (because I believe there is a bassline of wellbeing), though feeling/emotion can certainly be experienced as a polarity, and when working with feeling/emotion, it can even be useful to consider it as a polarity. Similarly, I don't see ego as the polar opposite of Being. OK, I changed the thread title, it's more-about polarity than necessarily duality. I was going to give electricity as an example. Ground, in terms of electricity, means the ground, the earth. Electricity must have 'two poles' to flow, the circuit must be completed. Take an outlet, a receptical for instance. Just eliminate the 3rd opening, it's the ground, only for safety. The two slots side by side, are the current carrying positive side, the smaller slot, and the wider slot, that's the return-path, the neutral. (When the poles were named, it was almost arbitrary, as they (Ben Franklin and others) didn't know the rules of how electricity flowed, the direction of flow, and the naming of the poles). So, there, at your outlet, no electricity is flowing. When you plug in, say a lamp, that completes the circuit, positive and negative are connected, electricity flows, your light bulb comes on, your electrical meter goes faster showing you are using electricity. Or when you flip on a light switch, this connects two wires and completes the circuit. All of the manifest universe works on the principle of polarity. I'd say this is what A-H calls contrast, contrast arises-from polarity. Now, almost an odd thing, there is no power/electricity on a neutral, but a neutral is needed for electricity to flow. Electricity wants to flow to-the-earth, as the earth is negative, in polarity. Look at your electrical service, where the meter is. There is a ground rod. This is tied to the neutral of your electrical system*. This is the safety-factor, this is tied to the ground on your outlets. (*And in your main panel, the grounds and neutrals are tied together). But, IOW, electricity will not flow without completing the circuit between positive and negative. The manifest universe 'will not work' without the unmanifest, and manifest, completing the circuit. And, all energy operates on the principle of polarity. No polarity, no manifest universe. The writer of the Bhagavad Gita knew this, this is the principle of the 3 gunas. The whole principle of entropy, developed over decades, arises from the knowledge that heat always flows from hotter to cooler, never vice versa, unless work enters. In and of itself, nothing ever gets hotter. In no natural process would an 'iron' shift from a cold iron to an iron hot enough to brand with. A steam engine, if left alone, would never make-a-train-go. Polarity rules in the manifest world. Responding to this, and your other messages, I'm inclined to agree. I'd say that polarity is part of the fabric of creation. In a sense, it is the manifest expression of the 'duality' that I described (presence, absence). I recall one of the spiritual 'teachers' (it may have been Bashar) talking about how every action, and every intention, boils down to either 'harmonizing' or 'segregating/dividing', and that this polarity exists in every dimension. But there are 2 clauses. The first, is that sometimes 'segregating' can be the highest response to a situation (we 'segregate' violent criminals, we 'leave' relationships, we may physically 'resist' a dangerous force, we say 'No' to someone....these are all appropriate acts of segregation at times). The second, and related to this, is that there is no 'actual' segregating/dividing. Ultimately, Oneness is the case, and so even when we are segregating, or resisting, or saying 'No'.....ultimately, it's still an act of harmonizing. And this is true for awful humans like Hitler....even when they are dividing, ultimately, they have to be harmonizing. I find a simple way to look at this is to talk about 'Yes' and 'No'. A very basic polarity, and one we can all relate to. 'Yes' is an acceptance, an agreement, and an allowing. And a 'No' is a boundary of sorts. BUT, even when we are saying 'No', we are saying 'Yes' to saying 'No'. I recall Tolle talking about this one. In the deepest sense, there is only ever a 'Yes' to Life. So while I believe that polarity is intrinsic to the fabric of creation, it's not straightforward. There are paradoxes, and the concept of 'illusion' may be relevant at times (though not in such way to negate the 'manifest'). In our dimension/world, we explore polarity very intensely, because we fail to recognize the paradoxes. We don't tend to recognize fundamental quality like 'wellbeing'. So we end up on rollercoasters....quite literally sometimes! We love to deeply explore the ups and downs, the happiness and the unhappiness, the good and the bad etc Just to be clear again, I'm not saying there is no polarity, I'm saying the reality of polarity is not quite what it seems to most people. Because existence is Whole...or One....there has to be some kind of paradox or illusion involved with polarity. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 14, 2024 11:42:41 GMT -5
Just because it's unnecessary doesn't mean it isn't sometimes useful. Correct. The thought and the reality are two different things. The thought is imaginary but useful for communication; the reality is what it is. The attachment to thoughts is the fundamental issue, and that's what is always being pointed to. It also helps to understand how the word "existence" relates to "what is." Not a single thing exists until an act of distinction brings forth something (some thing), imaginatively, from that which is non-dual and undivided. Animals directly know and interact with THIS, as THIS, through their senses. Humans, as THIS, tend to know and interact with their ideas about THIS. The ideas are always an overlay--the map rather than the territory. (** fan on my desk blows air on my face **) |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 14, 2024 15:06:17 GMT -5
Just because it's unnecessary doesn't mean it isn't sometimes useful. Correct. The thought and the reality are two different things. The thought is imaginary but useful for communication; the reality is what it is. The attachment to thoughts is the fundamental issue, and that's what is always being pointed to. It also helps to understand how the word "existence" relates to "what is." Not a single thing exists until an act of distinction brings forth something (some thing), imaginatively, from that which is non-dual and undivided. Animals directly know and interact with THIS, as THIS, through their senses. Humans, as THIS, tend to know and interact with their ideas about THIS. The ideas are always an overlay--the map rather than the territory. Practice Jul 3, 2024 at 9:22am laughter likes this laughter wrote: Any description of the natural state that excludes thought is incorrect.ZD wrote: So true.After the illusion of the "me" (the separate thinker, doer, etc) is penetrated, one realizes that whether there is silent awareness or awareness of thoughts there is no "me" doing any of it. This is why one famous ZM said (paraphrasing), "For years I controlled thoughts and kept attention away from thoughts until the mind became exceedlingly silent. Subsequently, I realized who the actual controller of attention is, and who the thinker of all thoughts is, and afterwards it no longer mattered whether there was thinking or silence."When one realizes what the ZM realized, true freedom is attained. The mind and body are then one with THIS. The sense of separation has ended. Tra la la la la la. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 20, 2024 20:51:27 GMT -5
This is pretty cool, hadn't seen it before. This is how the yin/yang symbol actually operates, as a torus, a continuous movement. The white dot in the black field and the black dot in the white field, are the top and bottom of a torus, moving from one to the other, continually repeating. But this shows the movement, of everything, in the manifest universe, all patterns of energy. You are all familiar with a picture of a magnetic field, even the magnetic field of the earth. This is that.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 20, 2024 21:22:19 GMT -5
If we didn't have the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field, there would be no life on Earth. The magnetic field protects us from the solar wind, and CMEs, and comic rays.
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Post by laughter on Jul 21, 2024 14:05:50 GMT -5
If we didn't have the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field, there would be no life on Earth. The magnetic field protects us from the solar wind, and CMEs, and comic rays. Define life. |
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Post by sharon on Jul 22, 2024 2:30:46 GMT -5
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 22, 2024 9:21:51 GMT -5
If we didn't have the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field, there would be no life on Earth. The magnetic field protects us from the solar wind, and CMEs, and comic rays. Define life. I take it as a first principle that consciousness only comes from Consciousness. But, that said, I'm talking about biological life. Life reproduces itself, makes copies of itself. So there has to be a means to do this. Today we know this is accomplished via genetic information. Coding information is the key. Reproducing itself requires energy processing. So, life takes in energy from the environment, and building materials, and reproduces itself. For variety, male and female aspects were introduced to allow combining of different genes. The earth's magnetic field blocks and deflects Solar radiation, comic rays (gamma rays are deadly to life), and CMEs, which would be even more deadly to beginning forms of life. So copying and manipulating information is a very significant requirement for life. Now, the big picture, which science and biology does not yet have access to, life works from top-down as well as bottom-up. So many ~patterns~ in nature, come from ~invisible~ information-fields, which influence living organisms. In man, part of the ~invisible~, meaning, science cannot detect it, comes from the alayavijnana body the storehouse consciousness. It takes 3 to conceive a baby, mother, daddy, the alayavijnana consciousness of the incarnating individuality, which supplies the info whereby the egg-genes and the sperm-genes are chosen, through resonance. Being attracts unto itself what it is like. Causality operates from two directions, the visible bottom-up, and the ~invisible~ top-down. The ~invisible~ top-down takes presidence over the visible bottom-up. However, bottom-up is the default mechanism, the ~invisible~ top-down can operate under certain conditions (which A-H describes pretty well, and Seth). Possibilities abound, but they have to be sought. The problem is, who is the seeker? (The so-called SVP neural circuits try to reproduce and protect themselves, they obstruct connection to the Whole, which is vastly more intelligent). The torus is the means of connecting "the higher" and "the lower". Vortex is another name for torus. The point is, nonduality does exclude polarity. Polarity exited billions of years before abstract language. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 22, 2024 10:54:57 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Jul 22, 2024 11:06:12 GMT -5
I take it as a first principle that consciousness only comes from Consciousness. But, that said, I'm talking about biological life. Life reproduces itself, makes copies of itself. So there has to be a means to do this. Today we know this is accomplished via genetic information. Coding information is the key. Reproducing itself requires energy processing. So, life takes in energy from the environment, and building materials, and reproduces itself. For variety, male and female aspects were introduced to allow combining of different genes. The earth's magnetic field blocks and deflects Solar radiation, comic rays (gamma rays are deadly to life), and CMEs, which would be even more deadly to beginning forms of life. So copying and manipulating information is a very significant requirement for life. Now, the big picture, which science and biology does not yet have access to, life works from top-down as well as bottom-up. So many ~patterns~ in nature, come from ~invisible~ information-fields, which influence living organisms. In man, part of the ~invisible~, meaning, science cannot detect it, comes from the alayavijnana body the storehouse consciousness. It takes 3 to conceive a baby, mother, daddy, the alayavijnana consciousness of the incarnating individuality, which supplies the info whereby the egg-genes and the sperm-genes are chosen, through resonance. Being attracts unto itself what it is like. Causality operates from two directions, the visible bottom-up, and the ~invisible~ top-down. The ~invisible~ top-down takes presidence over the visible bottom-up. However, bottom-up is the default mechanism, the ~invisible~ top-down can operate under certain conditions (which A-H describes pretty well, and Seth). Possibilities abound, but they have to be sought. The problem is, who is the seeker? (The so-called SVP neural circuits try to reproduce and protect themselves, they obstruct connection to the Whole, which is vastly more intelligent). The torus is the means of connecting "the higher" and "the lower". Vortex is another name for torus. The point is, nonduality does exclude polarity. Polarity exited billions of years before abstract language. Formations of solar systems, planets, crystalline structures, hurricanes and tornado's all fit your definition as well, albeit with different media of information propagation other than DNA. Not to say the distinction between biological life and these processes is insignificant, but in the abstract, your definition requires refinement. The fire of the existential truth casts shadows on the walls of the mind. "What is life?" is just one of the myriad forms of the existential question, to which the intellect will never find an answer. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 22, 2024 11:26:08 GMT -5
I take it as a first principle that consciousness only comes from Consciousness. But, that said, I'm talking about biological life. Life reproduces itself, makes copies of itself. So there has to be a means to do this. Today we know this is accomplished via genetic information. Coding information is the key. Reproducing itself requires energy processing. So, life takes in energy from the environment, and building materials, and reproduces itself. For variety, male and female aspects were introduced to allow combining of different genes. The earth's magnetic field blocks and deflects Solar radiation, comic rays (gamma rays are deadly to life), and CMEs, which would be even more deadly to beginning forms of life. So copying and manipulating information is a very significant requirement for life. Now, the big picture, which science and biology does not yet have access to, life works from top-down as well as bottom-up. So many ~patterns~ in nature, come from ~invisible~ information-fields, which influence living organisms. In man, part of the ~invisible~, meaning, science cannot detect it, comes from the alayavijnana body the storehouse consciousness. It takes 3 to conceive a baby, mother, daddy, the alayavijnana consciousness of the incarnating individuality, which supplies the info whereby the egg-genes and the sperm-genes are chosen, through resonance. Being attracts unto itself what it is like. Causality operates from two directions, the visible bottom-up, and the ~invisible~ top-down. The ~invisible~ top-down takes presidence over the visible bottom-up. However, bottom-up is the default mechanism, the ~invisible~ top-down can operate under certain conditions (which A-H describes pretty well, and Seth). Possibilities abound, but they have to be sought. The problem is, who is the seeker? (The so-called SVP neural circuits try to reproduce and protect themselves, they obstruct connection to the Whole, which is vastly more intelligent). The torus is the means of connecting "the higher" and "the lower". Vortex is another name for torus. The point is, nonduality does exclude polarity. Polarity exited billions of years before abstract language. The fire of the existential truth casts shadows on the walls of the mind. "What is life?" is just one of the myriad forms of the existential question, to which the intellect will never find an answer. I can get into all the detail anyone wants. I think few are interested in my long posts. I covered all this, by saying Consciousness is the origin, of everything. I made a distinction, biological life. So I basically spoke to what science can tell us about biological life. I subscribe to the Native American view of the universe, everything is living. There are about 17 constants in physics, if any one of them were different, there couldn't be biological life. Physics cannot tell us the why of the constants. Consciousness is the origin of the constants, living being, that's the why. How galaxies, solar systems and planetary systems, the other things you mention, operate, depend upon the laws of unseen worlds, information patterns beyond what science can measure, spoken to. I have no problem with calling them, living. That's why I mentioned the book Star Maker. All the resources of science, we have not yet been able to make life from scratch. As of now, life can only come from life. In the same manner, consciousness can only come from Consciousness. Sometimes, most of the time, we can't see all the steps from one to the other. Part of my problem with (put into words) nonduality, is it wants to do away with processes, and sprinkle fairy dust on the present moment. I agree, intellect will never find the answers. But our being is not limited to intellect. This I know-gnosis 100%. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 22, 2024 12:35:17 GMT -5
Formations of solar systems, planets, crystalline structures, hurricanes and tornado's all fit your definition as well, albeit with different media of information propagation other than DNA. Not to say the distinction between biological life and these processes is insignificant, but in the abstract, your definition requires refinement. The fire of the existential truth casts shadows on the walls of the mind. "What is life?" is just one of the myriad forms of the existential question, to which the intellect will never find an answer. I can get into all the detail anyone wants. I think few are interested in my long posts. I covered all this, by saying Consciousness is the origin, of everything. I made a distinction, biological life. So I basically spoke to what science can tell us about biological life. I subscribe to the Native American view of the universe, everything is living. There are about 17 constants in physics, if any one of them were different, there couldn't be biological life. Physics cannot tell us the why of the constants. Consciousness is the origin of the constants, living being, that's the why. How galaxies, solar systems and planetary systems, the other things you mention, operate, depend upon the laws of unseen worlds, information patterns beyond what science can measure, spoken to. I have no problem with calling them, living. That's why I mentioned the book Star Maker. All the resources of science, we have not yet been able to make like from scratch. As of now, life can only come from life. In the same manner, consciousness can only come from Consciousness. Sometimes, most of the time, we can't see all the steps from one to the other. Part of my problem with (put into words) nonduality, is it wants to do away with processes, and sprinkle fairy dust on the present moment. I agree, intellect will never find the answers. But our being is not limited to intellect. This I know-gnosis 100%. Exactly. It's all alive, Igor ( ). Just a hint, as to the nature of this .. "duality", this, dichotomy. That is all.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 22, 2024 12:54:44 GMT -5
I can get into all the detail anyone wants. I think few are interested in my long posts. I covered all this, by saying Consciousness is the origin, of everything. I made a distinction, biological life. So I basically spoke to what science can tell us about biological life. I subscribe to the Native American view of the universe, everything is living. There are about 17 constants in physics, if any one of them were different, there couldn't be biological life. Physics cannot tell us the why of the constants. Consciousness is the origin of the constants, living being, that's the why. How galaxies, solar systems and planetary systems, the other things you mention, operate, depend upon the laws of unseen worlds, information patterns beyond what science can measure, spoken to. I have no problem with calling them, living. That's why I mentioned the book Star Maker. All the resources of science, we have not yet been able to make like from scratch. As of now, life can only come from life. In the same manner, consciousness can only come from Consciousness. Sometimes, most of the time, we can't see all the steps from one to the other. Part of my problem with (put into words) nonduality, is it wants to do away with processes, and sprinkle fairy dust on the present moment. I agree, intellect will never find the answers. But our being is not limited to intellect. This I know-gnosis 100%. Exactly. It's all alive, Igor ( ). Just a hint, as to the nature of this .. "duality", this, dichotomy. That is all. Just for the record, I can quote you, Gurdjieff said the planets are living beings. |
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