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Post by lolly on Aug 4, 2024 1:55:56 GMT -5
I look at as as two distinct things, and as you are now comes with vasanas. It is worth addressing the vasanas deliberately with intentional meditation. It's better to consider the other thing separately because it's conditional on what is true now, and not conditional on what could be in the future, and if your reality comes with a ton of baggage right now, then that's how it is. The basic trick is not to offload the baggage as such, but don't add any more to the load. The current pile will reduce in its own time, but it's not really your concern.You're going to have to explain this. Nothing (negentropic) happens just from the passage of time. the current system is under tension, so we can say there is pent up energy which is held in place by a 'force of will' so to speak, and that force is generated by vesana, which by definition, are unintentional reactive tendencies. In more detail these tendencies are reactive to sensations, while at the same time, causing the same, and it doesn't only occur as superficial levels, but permeates through to very subtle feelings. All this vesana is reproductive of the subject, 'me', and despite the philosophy of identity that presumes we choose or play with our identity, which is fine in roleplay games, but when it's considered to be true rather than pretend, one's every activity is driven by reactive tendencies where notions of one's will are merely assumed in hindsight due to not being aware of 'what you do' in terms of vesana (which are unintentional rather than willful). Reality is more like space in which things are happening, or you could say, if someone is there making it happen, it's already done, and there is no time-gap in which one decided 'not this but that'.
The way I like to put to put it forward is say you want to know what your hand feels like, so you draw your attention there and find out. It's not like you make it feel that way. It's more like to discover 'what it's like', and if you really pay attention you'll notice that you have ceased to act so you can be aware of what is.
The ego will immediately become involved because it cannot continue without the vesana, but when it does you can be aware of that as it emerges and recognise that it's not really you. Hence it can do whatever it likes, but it can't sneak by you unaware. Since you are not affected you do not react. No effect = no reaction in the karmic sense, but the causal chain or loop runs on its own steam like a cymbal monkey toy that is wound with potential (or sankara). You can't make it stop because it's potential energy. To stop it, you just stop winding it up so it dissipates in its own time due to natural entropy.
By the time I finish this, the person is already caught in desire 'I want that', the will is already activated and re-winding, but with practice you understand it makes no difference what energy is wound into the spring, and it's more like you are powerless to wind or unwind because the vesana itself is entirely unintentional, yet noticeable.
Hence one just returns to the meditation, becoming conscious at more subtle levels of feeling.
The hints are everywhere. You intend to feel your breathing, for example, but you didn't intend to wander away, and you didn't intend to notice that you drifted off - that happens all by itself and realising you drifted away is very sudden. Then your deliberate intention returns to feeling your breathing, and to 'know what it's like' is the same as cessation of the vesanas that create the potential, aka wind up the toy.
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Post by zazeniac on Aug 4, 2024 8:29:57 GMT -5
You're going to have to explain this. Nothing (negentropic) happens just from the passage of time. the current system is under tension, so we can say there is pent up energy which is held in place by a 'force of will' so to speak, and that force is generated by vesana, which by definition, are unintentional reactive tendencies. In more detail these tendencies are reactive to sensations, while at the same time, causing the same, and it doesn't only occur as superficial levels, but permeates through to very subtle feelings. All this vesana is reproductive of the subject, 'me', and despite the philosophy of identity that presumes we choose or play with our identity, which is fine in roleplay games, but when it's considered to be true rather than pretend, one's every activity is driven by reactive tendencies where notions of one's will are merely assumed in hindsight due to not being aware of 'what you do' in terms of vesana (which are unintentional rather than willful). Reality is more like space in which things are happening, or you could say, if someone is there making it happen, it's already done, and there is no time-gap in which one decided 'not this but that'.
The way I like to put to put it forward is say you want to know what your hand feels like, so you draw your attention there and find out. It's not like you make it feel that way. It's more like to discover 'what it's like', and if you really pay attention you'll notice that you have ceased to act so you can be aware of what is.
The ego will immediately become involved because it cannot continue without the vesana, but when it does you can be aware of that as it emerges and recognise that it's not really you. Hence it can do whatever it likes, but it can't sneak by you unaware. Since you are not affected you do not react. No effect = no reaction in the karmic sense, but the causal chain or loop runs on its own steam like a cymbal monkey toy that is wound with potential (or sankara). You can't make it stop because it's potential energy. To stop it, you just stop winding it up so it dissipates in its own time due to natural entropy.
By the time I finish this, the person is already caught in desire 'I want that', the will is already activated and re-winding, but with practice you understand it makes no difference what energy is wound into the spring, and it's more like you are powerless to wind or unwind because the vesana itself is entirely unintentional, yet noticeable.
Hence one just returns to the meditation, becoming conscious at more subtle levels of feeling.
The hints are everywhere. You intend to feel your breathing, for example, but you didn't intend to wander away, and you didn't intend to notice that you drifted off - that happens all by itself and realising you drifted away is very sudden. Then your deliberate intention returns to feeling your breathing, and to 'know what it's like' is the same as cessation of the vesanas that create the potential, aka wind up the toy.
The hand stuff is cool. Yes, activity stops to be aware. Also the note about no will when we're distracted or when we come back to the breath. Great hints. Thanks. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 4, 2024 11:40:41 GMT -5
You're going to have to explain this. Nothing (negentropic) happens just from the passage of time. the current system is under tension, so we can say there is pent up energy which is held in place by a 'force of will' so to speak, and that force is generated by vesana, which by definition, are unintentional reactive tendencies. In more detail these tendencies are reactive to sensations, while at the same time, causing the same, and it doesn't only occur as superficial levels, but permeates through to very subtle feelings. All this vesana is reproductive of the subject, 'me', and despite the philosophy of identity that presumes we choose or play with our identity, which is fine in roleplay games, but when it's considered to be true rather than pretend, one's every activity is driven by reactive tendencies where notions of one's will are merely assumed in hindsight due to not being aware of 'what you do' in terms of vesana (which are unintentional rather than willful). Reality is more like space in which things are happening, or you could say, if someone is there making it happen, it's already done, and there is no time-gap in which one decided 'not this but that'. The way I like to put to put it forward is say you want to know what your hand feels like, so you draw your attention there and find out. It's not like you make it feel that way. It's more like to discover 'what it's like', and if you really pay attention you'll notice that you have ceased to act so you can be aware of what is. The ego will immediately become involved because it cannot continue without the vesana, but when it does you can be aware of that as it emerges and recognise that it's not really you. Hence it can do whatever it likes, but it can't sneak by you unaware. Since you are not affected you do not react. No effect = no reaction in the karmic sense, but the causal chain or loop runs on its own steam like a cymbal monkey toy that is wound with potential (or sankara). You can't make it stop because it's potential energy. To stop it, you just stop winding it up so it dissipates in its own time due to natural entropy. By the time I finish this, the person is already caught in desire 'I want that', the will is already activated and re-winding, but with practice you understand it makes no difference what energy is wound into the spring, and it's more like you are powerless to wind or unwind because the vesana itself is entirely unintentional, yet noticeable.
Hence one just returns to the meditation, becoming conscious at more subtle levels of feeling. The hints are everywhere. You intend to feel your breathing, for example, but you didn't intend to wander away, and you didn't intend to notice that you drifted off - that happens all by itself and realising you drifted away is very sudden. Then your deliberate intention returns to feeling your breathing, and to 'know what it's like' is the same as cessation of the vesanas that create the potential, aka wind up the toy.
Very good post. I want to suggest a couple of things. The blue is the description of the activity of the vasanas, they continue on their own. The purple is the practice. When I write about practice, I didn't make any of it up, this I was taught, and this I have verified for over 48 years. So you have done very well, what you write has come out of blood, sweat and tears, I know. Everything revolves around energy. The vasanas are stored energy of a certain quality and quantity. The whole process is a self-perpetuating feedback loop, as long as it is not interrupted, the process continues, that's the very meaning of the vasanas, "reproductive of the subject, 'me'." Two means are involved here, each is the way attention is either manipulated or intended. The whole purpose of the subject, 'me', is to take attention. It, the conditioning and the vasanas, feed on attention, it's what gives energy to the self-perpetuating. Practice is a reverse process, you describe very well the process of intending attention to the vasanas-conditioning-the subject, 'me'. This takes your attention in an unconscious process. Via this, attention is consciously given to the process. This next is I would suggest, new, and is explanatory of what's occurring. It's offered as information, but over 48 years I've found it to be accurate. Picture two different buckets, one is this, this process, the other bucket consists of the results of this process. You know well what's going on here. But just as energy is stolen and dissipated in this process, energy is saved in this process. So there is a 'place' where the energy which is saved in this process, is accumulated. I'm going to guess you, lolly, are familiar with certain subtle bodies, at least in theory (in Yogacara it's called the storehouse). If the vasanas continue from incarnation to incarnation, they are collected in some manner. Likewise, in a similar manner, the energy accumulated from this process, practice, has a 'place' of accumulation. Here is another suggestion. Consider, that when this occurs, when you didn't intent to notice you drifted off, you in a certain sense, did. I would suggest you consider that 'what bought back noticing you drifted away', is a result of this accumulated field of energy, which, again, comes from practice, it has, here, a beneficial effect.Now we get back to my initial disagreement. I would suggest you consider the following, this is a subject that was continually brought up in meetings, it's fundamental. The conditioning that is the basis of "the subject 'me'," doesn't dissipate merely via time, practice actually takes the energy out of the feedback process. IOW, without practice, the vasanas continue, that's the very meaning of the vasanas. Practice stops the filling this bucket, and the energy goes into this bucket. That's why I highlighted this part, the vasanas don't dissipate merely from the passage of time. Now, can I prove this to you? No, I can't. But you can prove it to yourself. But consider if this could explain what's happening. It is. But, basically, all this is a big part of why continuing to practice is necessary, why I've kept suggesting it for 15 years, here. If the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, they continue, and will continue into another incarnation, and be the basis for, the seeds of, *that next life*. {IOW, practice takes energy from this bucket and it goes into this bucket. And the energy in this bucket, reaching a certain threshold, becomes perceptible}. You basically understand the process, as you have described the end results, here, "to know what it's like is the cessation of the vasanas". So it doesn't happen merely as a factor of time.IOW, if the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, the wheel of birth and rebirth and karma, for ~you~, will continue. {The use of the word ~you~ is very tricky here. The cultural self, the self-avatar, the 'me', doesn't continue, but the vasanas do continue. The whole process is understandable, but complicated}. |
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Post by sharon on Aug 4, 2024 12:08:19 GMT -5
IOW, if the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, the wheel of birth and rebirth and karma, will continue. The Great Wheel will continue whether you are in it or not. If you don't want to be in it anymore then be prepared to let go. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 4, 2024 12:57:01 GMT -5
IOW, if the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, the wheel of birth and rebirth and karma, will continue. The Great Wheel will continue whether you are in it or not. If you don't want to be in it anymore then be prepared to let go. Thanks, I clarified. But the whole point, just letting go is no-where-near enough. |
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Post by sharon on Aug 4, 2024 13:56:37 GMT -5
The Great Wheel will continue whether you are in it or not. If you don't want to be in it anymore then be prepared to let go. Thanks, I clarified. But the whole point, just letting go is no-where-near enough.  How you know? |
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Post by lolly on Aug 4, 2024 20:10:29 GMT -5
the current system is under tension, so we can say there is pent up energy which is held in place by a 'force of will' so to speak, and that force is generated by vesana, which by definition, are unintentional reactive tendencies. In more detail these tendencies are reactive to sensations, while at the same time, causing the same, and it doesn't only occur as superficial levels, but permeates through to very subtle feelings. All this vesana is reproductive of the subject, 'me', and despite the philosophy of identity that presumes we choose or play with our identity, which is fine in roleplay games, but when it's considered to be true rather than pretend, one's every activity is driven by reactive tendencies where notions of one's will are merely assumed in hindsight due to not being aware of 'what you do' in terms of vesana (which are unintentional rather than willful). Reality is more like space in which things are happening, or you could say, if someone is there making it happen, it's already done, and there is no time-gap in which one decided 'not this but that'. The way I like to put to put it forward is say you want to know what your hand feels like, so you draw your attention there and find out. It's not like you make it feel that way. It's more like to discover 'what it's like', and if you really pay attention you'll notice that you have ceased to act so you can be aware of what is. The ego will immediately become involved because it cannot continue without the vesana, but when it does you can be aware of that as it emerges and recognise that it's not really you. Hence it can do whatever it likes, but it can't sneak by you unaware. Since you are not affected you do not react. No effect = no reaction in the karmic sense, but the causal chain or loop runs on its own steam like a cymbal monkey toy that is wound with potential (or sankara). You can't make it stop because it's potential energy. To stop it, you just stop winding it up so it dissipates in its own time due to natural entropy. By the time I finish this, the person is already caught in desire 'I want that', the will is already activated and re-winding, but with practice you understand it makes no difference what energy is wound into the spring, and it's more like you are powerless to wind or unwind because the vesana itself is entirely unintentional, yet noticeable.
Hence one just returns to the meditation, becoming conscious at more subtle levels of feeling. The hints are everywhere. You intend to feel your breathing, for example, but you didn't intend to wander away, and you didn't intend to notice that you drifted off - that happens all by itself and realising you drifted away is very sudden. Then your deliberate intention returns to feeling your breathing, and to 'know what it's like' is the same as cessation of the vesanas that create the potential, aka wind up the toy.
Very good post. I want to suggest a couple of things. The blue is the description of the activity of the vasanas, they continue on their own. The purple is the practice. When I write about practice, I didn't make any of it up, this I was taught, and this I have verified for over 48 years. So you have done very well, what you write has come out of blood, sweat and tears, I know. Everything revolves around energy. The vasanas are stored energy of a certain quality and quantity. The whole process is a self-perpetuating feedback loop, as long as it is not interrupted, the process continues, that's the very meaning of the vasanas, "reproductive of the subject, 'me'." Two means are involved here, each is the way attention is either manipulated or intended. The whole purpose of the subject, 'me', is to take attention. It, the conditioning and the vasanas, feed on attention, it's what gives energy to the self-perpetuating. Practice is a reverse process, you describe very well the process of intending attention to the vasanas-conditioning-the subject, 'me'. This takes your attention in an unconscious process. Via this, attention is consciously given to the process. This next is I would suggest, new, and is explanatory of what's occurring. It's offered as information, but over 48 years I've found it to be accurate. Picture two different buckets, one is this, this process, the other bucket consists of the results of this process. You know well what's going on here. But just as energy is stolen and dissipated in this process, energy is saved in this process. So there is a 'place' where the energy which is saved in this process, is accumulated. I'm going to guess you, lolly, are familiar with certain subtle bodies, at least in theory (in Yogacara it's called the storehouse). If the vasanas continue from incarnation to incarnation, they are collected in some manner. Likewise, in a similar manner, the energy accumulated from this process, practice, has a 'place' of accumulation. Here is another suggestion. Consider, that when this occurs, when you didn't intent to notice you drifted off, you in a certain sense, did. I would suggest you consider that 'what bought back noticing you drifted away', is a result of this accumulated field of energy, which, again, comes from practice, it has, here, a beneficial effect.Now we get back to my initial disagreement. I would suggest you consider the following, this is a subject that was continually brought up in meetings, it's fundamental. The conditioning that is the basis of "the subject 'me'," doesn't dissipate merely via time, practice actually takes the energy out of the feedback process. IOW, without practice, the vasanas continue, that's the very meaning of the vasanas. Practice stops the filling this bucket, and the energy goes into this bucket. That's why I highlighted this part, the vasanas don't dissipate merely from the passage of time. Now, can I prove this to you? No, I can't. But you can prove it to yourself. But consider if this could explain what's happening. It is. But, basically, all this is a big part of why continuing to practice is necessary, why I've kept suggesting it for 15 years, here. If the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, they continue, and will continue into another incarnation, and be the basis for, the seeds of, *that next life*. {IOW, practice takes energy from this bucket and it goes into this bucket. And the energy in this bucket, reaching a certain threshold, becomes perceptible}. You basically understand the process, as you have described the end results, here, "to know what it's like is the cessation of the vasanas". So it doesn't happen merely as a factor of time.IOW, if the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, the wheel of birth and rebirth and karma, for ~you~, will continue. {The use of the word ~you~ is very tricky here. The cultural self, the self-avatar, the 'me', doesn't continue, but the vasanas do continue. The whole process is understandable, but complicated}. In the eastern lexicon, Vassana are more like the reactive tendencies that generate sankara which collect as the storehouse of potentials, so in the practical sense, when the reactivity stops, the generation of sankara ceases. However, Vassana are like habits, and breaking those habits is a deliberate endeavour. In the general discussion we tend to mix meanings, and vassana and sankara get mixed together, but I think it's worth categorising them separately, because the cessation of vassana is not the neutralisation of the sankara. IOW, vassana (winding up) gives the toy sankara (stored potential). When you stop winding that stored potential takes a while to expire. If the vassana has ended in a reactive sense, but still arise habitually as unintended activity, that's fine, you see it happening and know, 'here is the reactivity arising, changing, passing away', and withdraw by leaving it 'as it is' and continue with the intentional meditation. After a while the habit will be broken, and 'this reactivity' will pass with insight or understanding, and that tendency will never occur again.
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 4, 2024 20:14:50 GMT -5
Q: There must be a way for all to tread -- with no conditions attached.
M: There is such a way, open to all, on every level, in every walk of life. Everybody is aware of himself. The deepening and broadening of self-awareness is the royal way. Call it mindfulness, or witnessing, or just attention -- it is for all. None is unripe for it and none can fail. But, of course, you must not be merely alert. Your mindfulness must include the mind also. Witnessing is primarily awareness of consciousness and its movements.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 4, 2024 21:47:49 GMT -5
Very good post. I want to suggest a couple of things. The blue is the description of the activity of the vasanas, they continue on their own. The purple is the practice. When I write about practice, I didn't make any of it up, this I was taught, and this I have verified for over 48 years. So you have done very well, what you write has come out of blood, sweat and tears, I know. Everything revolves around energy. The vasanas are stored energy of a certain quality and quantity. The whole process is a self-perpetuating feedback loop, as long as it is not interrupted, the process continues, that's the very meaning of the vasanas, "reproductive of the subject, 'me'." Two means are involved here, each is the way attention is either manipulated or intended. The whole purpose of the subject, 'me', is to take attention. It, the conditioning and the vasanas, feed on attention, it's what gives energy to the self-perpetuating. Practice is a reverse process, you describe very well the process of intending attention to the vasanas-conditioning-the subject, 'me'. This takes your attention in an unconscious process. Via this, attention is consciously given to the process. This next is I would suggest, new, and is explanatory of what's occurring. It's offered as information, but over 48 years I've found it to be accurate. Picture two different buckets, one is this, this process, the other bucket consists of the results of this process. You know well what's going on here. But just as energy is stolen and dissipated in this process, energy is saved in this process. So there is a 'place' where the energy which is saved in this process, is accumulated. I'm going to guess you, lolly, are familiar with certain subtle bodies, at least in theory (in Yogacara it's called the storehouse). If the vasanas continue from incarnation to incarnation, they are collected in some manner. Likewise, in a similar manner, the energy accumulated from this process, practice, has a 'place' of accumulation. Here is another suggestion. Consider, that when this occurs, when you didn't intent to notice you drifted off, you in a certain sense, did. I would suggest you consider that 'what bought back noticing you drifted away', is a result of this accumulated field of energy, which, again, comes from practice, it has, here, a beneficial effect.Now we get back to my initial disagreement. I would suggest you consider the following, this is a subject that was continually brought up in meetings, it's fundamental. The conditioning that is the basis of "the subject 'me'," doesn't dissipate merely via time, practice actually takes the energy out of the feedback process. IOW, without practice, the vasanas continue, that's the very meaning of the vasanas. Practice stops the filling this bucket, and the energy goes into this bucket. That's why I highlighted this part, the vasanas don't dissipate merely from the passage of time. Now, can I prove this to you? No, I can't. But you can prove it to yourself. But consider if this could explain what's happening. It is. But, basically, all this is a big part of why continuing to practice is necessary, why I've kept suggesting it for 15 years, here. If the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, they continue, and will continue into another incarnation, and be the basis for, the seeds of, *that next life*. {IOW, practice takes energy from this bucket and it goes into this bucket. And the energy in this bucket, reaching a certain threshold, becomes perceptible}. You basically understand the process, as you have described the end results, here, "to know what it's like is the cessation of the vasanas". So it doesn't happen merely as a factor of time.IOW, if the energy is not taken out of the vasanas, the wheel of birth and rebirth and karma, for ~you~, will continue. {The use of the word ~you~ is very tricky here. The cultural self, the self-avatar, the 'me', doesn't continue, but the vasanas do continue. The whole process is understandable, but complicated}. In the eastern lexicon, Vassana are more like the reactive tendencies that generate sankara which collect as the storehouse of potentials, so in the practical sense, when the reactivity stops, the generation of sankara ceases. However, Vassana are like habits, and breaking those habits is a deliberate endeavour. In the general discussion we tend to mix meanings, and vassana and sankara get mixed together, but I think it's worth categorising them separately, because the cessation of vassana is not the neutralisation of the sankara. IOW, vassana (winding up) gives the toy sankara (stored potential). When you stop winding that stored potential takes a while to expire. If the vassana has ended in a reactive sense, but still arise habitually as unintended activity, that's fine, you see it happening and know, 'here is the reactivity arising, changing, passing away', and withdraw by leaving it 'as it is' and continue with the intentional meditation. After a while the habit will be broken, and 'this reactivity' will pass with insight or understanding, and that tendency will never occur again. , is the significant part. But nice overall. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Question, you can answer, or not, no problem. What is the most significant ~part~/aspect which constitutes lolly? When you consider the depths of lolly, what is lolly? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 4, 2024 22:01:01 GMT -5
Q: There must be a way for all to tread -- with no conditions attached. M: There is such a way, open to all, on every level, in every walk of life. Everybody is aware of himself. The deepening and broadening of self-awareness is the royal way. Call it mindfulness, or witnessing, or just attention -- it is for all. None is unripe for it and none can fail. But, of course, you must not be merely alert. Your mindfulness must include the mind also. Witnessing is primarily awareness of consciousness and its movements. sdp likes mucho bueno. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 4, 2024 22:20:41 GMT -5
Thanks, I clarified. But the whole point, just letting go is no-where-near enough. How you know? I think probably when letting go is enough, they were probably OK with who they were or are. I've told part of my story, for most if not everybody, it's probably mostly faded from memory. But I was shite, miserable, basically hated myself, 5th grade was probably my last good year, I guess that's about age ten-eleven. So it all went downhill from there, the worst age 23-24, almost unbearable. I started getting some methods so as not to be as heavy a burden. If/when I see people functioning through the conditioning, even the ~good~ conditioning, I think, the poor bastards, letting go doesn't "decreate" the conditioning. I probably had it good, being forced to find a way...out of the shite. That's how I know. Self-delusion, is like step one (12 steps), overcoming self-delusion. |
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Post by lolly on Aug 5, 2024 2:32:25 GMT -5
In the eastern lexicon, Vassana are more like the reactive tendencies that generate sankara which collect as the storehouse of potentials, so in the practical sense, when the reactivity stops, the generation of sankara ceases. However, Vassana are like habits, and breaking those habits is a deliberate endeavour. In the general discussion we tend to mix meanings, and vassana and sankara get mixed together, but I think it's worth categorising them separately, because the cessation of vassana is not the neutralisation of the sankara. IOW, vassana (winding up) gives the toy sankara (stored potential). When you stop winding that stored potential takes a while to expire. If the vassana has ended in a reactive sense, but still arise habitually as unintended activity, that's fine, you see it happening and know, 'here is the reactivity arising, changing, passing away', and withdraw by leaving it 'as it is' and continue with the intentional meditation. After a while the habit will be broken, and 'this reactivity' will pass with insight or understanding, and that tendency will never occur again. , is the significant part. But nice overall. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Question, you can answer, or not, no problem. What is the most significant ~part~/aspect which constitutes lolly? When you consider the depths of lolly, what is lolly? I'm the one who is aware. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 5, 2024 3:06:50 GMT -5
Any description of the natural state that excludes thought is incorrect. So true. After the illusion of the "me" (the separate thinker, doer, etc) is penetrated, one realizes that whether there is silent awareness or awareness of thoughts there is no "me" doing any of it. This is why one famous ZM said (paraphrasing), "For years I controlled thoughts and kept attention away from thoughts until the mind became exceedlingly silent. Subsequently, I realized who the actual controller of attention is, and who the thinker of all thoughts is, and afterwards it no longer mattered whether there was thinking or silence." When one realizes what the ZM realized, true freedom is attained. The mind and body are then one with THIS. The sense of separation has ended. Tra la la la la la. This story is nice because he is unaware of the truth or haven't heard before, so it hits him. If you tell one that this is the case, then he can't have that idea and try to chase it. It wouldn't work. If a person stumbles upon the truth accidentally while on a mountain, that’s fine. However, if they go to the mountain with the specific intention of achieving enlightenment, their guard is up, which could hinder their progress. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 5, 2024 3:08:32 GMT -5
Simple breath awareness is fine. You feel it, and 'this is reality as it is'. You realise you became distracted and remember, the actuality is here and now. It's better than being distracted all the time. That’s also a form of practice. However, no practice will ultimately lead you anywhere. There’s always a possibility that, while engaging in the practice, you might realize its futility. |
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Post by Gopal on Aug 5, 2024 3:14:39 GMT -5
Some folks say you can practice while thinking. I have my suspicions about those folks, unpleasant ones. Though thinking definitely plays a role. A prompt to get back to now. In SI it's "who's thinking?" In what I read of Dzogchen, it's acknowledging the distraction. Why I'm doubtful about thinking and practice is the expression "lost in thought." What is lost? Reality? Unadulterated reality is what I say. Enquiry involves thinking, while other practices like zazen may/may not. Would you say that filtering through all the causes and effects, looking for what is missing, or trying to find a conclusive answer is practice or a method for exhausting the mind, possibly making it prone?  Enquiry means we are doing. ATA-T means, we are allowing the All That Is to reveal itself. That's the idea. But it would not when we are on practice. All the insights I have gotten so far came automatically without any effort. But I was longing for that. |
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How you know?
