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Post by zazeniac on Sept 24, 2024 9:27:18 GMT -5
Right now, my dog is barking because I'm late for her walk. Annoyed, the mind wants to say something profound on ST. It's pretty simple. Focusing on "what's not happening" is the modus operandi of the great bamboozler. Keep at it or not.
Simple but not easy.
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Post by steven on Sept 25, 2024 2:04:43 GMT -5
I’m not a big fan of split attention techniques. All the best ones seem to have a few things in common, one of them is a kind of steadfast focus on one thing or experience. So this bifurcating of your attention both on the observer, and phenomenon that arises from the observer seems less productive than doing one or the other at a time. Either do the technique of residing in your still silent center watching all phenomena as it arises, OR turn your full attention toward the observer of the observed. Bifurcating comes with a lot of attention bouncing back and forth too and fro and can be counterproductive to one pointedness. The latter seems to allow an easier and quicker centering into deeper states of meditation more efficiently. Division of attention allows for practice any time any where. For sdp everything is about saving and transforming energy, which is what correct practice accomplishes. When you are not-practicing, you are leaking and wasting energy. For sdp, anything else is superfluous. We have very different perspectives on this in a couple of ways. 1st most of my practice is founded in the 112 techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra…within the variations of those 112 techniques is a practice for centering in nearly every human experience. I did so many years with it that nearly every moment of my life was ‘in practice’ including sleep. Life was a continuous flow of practice from one technique to another through the shifting phenomena of everyday life. But there was no split attention. There was moving from one oen-pointedness to another, sometimes in rapid succession as a day unfolded…but through all those shifting flowing techniques there was one common thing…one pointedness…being so focused on a particular experience, or doing, or phenomena that that’s all there was. Specifically the practice was to not divide attention while flowing from one experience to another, one technique to another. Whatever arises be completely focused on it. In this way you turn everything that happens into a continuous practice. 2nd: perhaps one of the most important realizations that I gained from that time of my life spent in continuous practice, is that there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost in the grand scheme of things. (Although there are many useful things found in practice.) Ultimately, trying to stay in one state of being is a fruitless endeavor, and probably not what we are here for. Whatever arises…this. Alternatively, focus all your attention on that which observes all that arises, as a kind of switch up. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 25, 2024 8:12:08 GMT -5
Division of attention allows for practice any time any where. For sdp everything is about saving and transforming energy, which is what correct practice accomplishes. When you are not-practicing, you are leaking and wasting energy. For sdp, anything else is superfluous. We have very different perspectives on this in a couple of ways. 1st most of my practice is founded in the 112 techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra…within the variations of those 112 techniques is a practice for centering in nearly every human experience. I did so many years with it that nearly every moment of my life was ‘in practice’ including sleep. Life was a continuous flow of practice from one technique to another through the shifting phenomena of everyday life. But there was no split attention. There was moving from one oen-pointedness to another, sometimes in rapid succession as a day unfolded…but through all those shifting flowing techniques there was one common thing…one pointedness…being so focused on a particular experience, or doing, or phenomena that that’s all there was. Specifically the practice was to not divide attention while flowing from one experience to another, one technique to another. Whatever arises be completely focused on it. In this way you turn everything that happens into a continuous practice. 2nd: perhaps one of the most important realizations that I gained from that time of my life spent in continuous practice, is that there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost in the grand scheme of things. (Although there are many useful things found in practice.) Ultimately, trying to stay in one state of being is a fruitless endeavor, and probably not what we are here for.
Whatever arises…this.Alternatively, focus all your attention on that which observes all that arises, as a kind of switch up. Nice. Yeah. I don't think I've heard that expressed here in quite that way. We talk about fluctuation of feeling, emotion and sensation a lot over the years, but movements of states of being is not something I've often heard. But I agree...at least from my experience. It's also why I use different meditations, as different states of being call for different kinds of focus. I'm using the word 'meditation' quite loosely there. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 25, 2024 8:17:25 GMT -5
Division of attention allows for practice any time any where. For sdp everything is about saving and transforming energy, which is what correct practice accomplishes. When you are not-practicing, you are leaking and wasting energy. For sdp, anything else is superfluous. We have very different perspectives on this in a couple of ways. 1st most of my practice is founded in the 112 techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra…within the variations of those 112 techniques is a practice for centering in nearly every human experience. I did so many years with it that nearly every moment of my life was ‘in practice’ including sleep. Life was a continuous flow of practice from one technique to another through the shifting phenomena of everyday life. But there was no split attention. There was moving from one oen-pointedness to another, sometimes in rapid succession as a day unfolded…but through all those shifting flowing techniques there was one common thing…one pointedness…being so focused on a particular experience, or doing, or phenomena that that’s all there was. Specifically the practice was to not divide attention while flowing from one experience to another, one technique to another. Whatever arises be completely focused on it. In this way you turn everything that happens into a continuous practice. 2nd: perhaps one of the most important realizations that I gained from that time of my life spent in continuous practice, is that there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost in the grand scheme of things. (Although there are many useful things found in practice.) Ultimately, trying to stay in one state of being is a fruitless endeavor, and probably not what we are here for. Whatever arises…this. Alternatively, focus all your attention on that which observes all that arises, as a kind of switch up. I respect your path, I reply not to change your mind. There was a man who came upon a treasure hid in a field. So he went and sold all he had to buy the field. This parable shows values, he valued the treasure above everything he owned. IOW, he sacrificed everything he owned to possess the treasure. But parables are not about fields or coins or pearls. So here, the treasure is not focus all your attention, but on that which observes all that arises. That, is worth everything. It is above all other things. So I don't know how you could say, there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost. There is a way, to stay there, and it is not a fruitless endeavor. It's all a matter of what is of most value. This shows scale, what's higher and what's lower. There is an OT story about the same. Esau came before Jacob, he was the oldest, the first born. So Esau was to inherit both the birthright and the blessing. He came in from hunting one day, exhausted, famished. Jacob said to him, I've got a nice hot pot of beans cooking here, I'll trade you a bowl of beans, all you can eat, for the birthright. So Esau said, sure, what good is the birthright if I'm about to die? Esau did not value his birthright. Later, Jacob tricked his father Isaac into giving him the blessing also. The Bible is not about events, but about values. We are tempted to choose that which has little value over that which is everything. Life presents choices. Life is about making good choices. Life is about deciding what is of more value. That which has the most value cannot be seen. ~~~~~~~~~~ This is what the individual thread is about. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 25, 2024 13:19:10 GMT -5
Division of attention allows for practice any time any where. For sdp everything is about saving and transforming energy, which is what correct practice accomplishes. When you are not-practicing, you are leaking and wasting energy. For sdp, anything else is superfluous. We have very different perspectives on this in a couple of ways. 1st most of my practice is founded in the 112 techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra…within the variations of those 112 techniques is a practice for centering in nearly every human experience. I did so many years with it that nearly every moment of my life was ‘in practice’ including sleep. Life was a continuous flow of practice from one technique to another through the shifting phenomena of everyday life. But there was no split attention. There was moving from one oen-pointedness to another, sometimes in rapid succession as a day unfolded…but through all those shifting flowing techniques there was one common thing…one pointedness…being so focused on a particular experience, or doing, or phenomena that that’s all there was. Specifically the practice was to not divide attention while flowing from one experience to another, one technique to another. Whatever arises be completely focused on it. In this way you turn everything that happens into a continuous practice. 2nd: perhaps one of the most important realizations that I gained from that time of my life spent in continuous practice, is that there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost in the grand scheme of things. (Although there are many useful things found in practice.) Ultimately, trying to stay in one state of being is a fruitless endeavor, and probably not what we are here for. Whatever arises…this. Alternatively, focus all your attention on that which observes all that arises, as a kind of switch up. Yes. Realizing THIS ends all searching, practicing, or attempting to stay in a particular state of mind/attentiveness/etc. Realizing THIS is the discovery of what we might call "the big picture." After that discovery, one can relax and simply be what one is--THIS, however that manifests. Until the realization of THIS occurs, it feels as if one is a separate volitional entity doing something in order to get something, but this is all an illusion that we call "the concensus paradigm." THIS, or Source, is an undivided whole in which nothing (no thing) is separate from anything (any thing) else. This is why Adya tells people to "be as you are" and it's why Zen Masters tell students that "your ordinary everyday life is The Way." There is no separate entity that circulates blood, moves nerve impulses, contracts muscles, grows teeth and hair, or does anything else. There is only THIS doing whatever is done. Every human is THIS whether they know it or not, and not a single boundary separates a human from all that is, or THIS. It's ironic than humans classify things like the circulation of blood or the activity of breathing as somehow autonomic and not under their control, but think that they are separate entities that can do things like make choices, think particular thoughts, or practice one activity rather than another activity. For those who see "the big picture" the idea that one can practice one's way to enlightenment or to a different state of mind is incredibly humorous as well as poignant. In fact, anyone who has an interest in enlightenment or freedom has that interest because THIS is manifesting in that particular way. One way to help penetrate the illusion of personal doership is to ask, "Can I make myself get interested in something in which I have no interest?" or "Where do 'my' interests come from?" Humans are very funny. They think that they know so many things, and yet they don't know how they grow a single hair, think a single thought, move a single blood cell, or even see. The truth is much stranger than fiction!  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 25, 2024 15:37:15 GMT -5
Right now, my dog is barking because I'm late for her walk. Annoyed, the mind wants to say something profound on ST. It's pretty simple. Focusing on "what's not happening" is the modus operandi of the great bamboozler. Keep at it or not. Simple but not easy. sdp likes after the edit, simple does not mean easy. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 25, 2024 15:42:31 GMT -5
We have very different perspectives on this in a couple of ways. 1st most of my practice is founded in the 112 techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra…within the variations of those 112 techniques is a practice for centering in nearly every human experience. I did so many years with it that nearly every moment of my life was ‘in practice’ including sleep. Life was a continuous flow of practice from one technique to another through the shifting phenomena of everyday life. But there was no split attention. There was moving from one oen-pointedness to another, sometimes in rapid succession as a day unfolded…but through all those shifting flowing techniques there was one common thing…one pointedness…being so focused on a particular experience, or doing, or phenomena that that’s all there was. Specifically the practice was to not divide attention while flowing from one experience to another, one technique to another. Whatever arises be completely focused on it. In this way you turn everything that happens into a continuous practice. 2nd: perhaps one of the most important realizations that I gained from that time of my life spent in continuous practice, is that there is nothing to be gained, nothing to be lost in the grand scheme of things. (Although there are many useful things found in practice.) Ultimately, trying to stay in one state of being is a fruitless endeavor, and probably not what we are here for. Whatever arises…this. Alternatively, focus all your attention on that which observes all that arises, as a kind of switch up. Yes. Realizing THIS ends all searching, practicing, or attempting to stay in a particular state of mind/attentiveness/etc. Realizing THIS is the discovery of what we might call "the big picture." After that discovery, one can relax and simply be what one is--THIS, however that manifests. Until the realization of THIS occurs, it feels as if one is a separate volitional entity doing something in order to get something, but this is all an illusion that we call "the concensus paradigm." THIS, or Source, is an undivided whole in which nothing (no thing) is separate from anything (any thing) else. This is why Adya tells people to "be as you are" and it's why Zen Masters tell students that "your ordinary everyday life is The Way." There is no separate entity that circulates blood, moves nerve impulses, contracts muscles, grows teeth and hair, or does anything else. There is only THIS doing whatever is done. Every human is THIS whether they know it or not, and not a single boundary separates a human from all that is, or THIS. It's ironic than humans classify things like the circulation of blood or the activity of breathing as somehow autonomic and not under their control, but think that they are separate entities that can do things like make choices, think particular thoughts, or practice one activity rather than another activity. For those who see "the big picture" the idea that one can practice one's way to enlightenment or to a different state of mind is incredibly humorous as well as poignant. In fact, anyone who has an interest in enlightenment or freedom has that interest because THIS is manifesting in that particular way. One way to help penetrate the illusion of personal doership is to ask, "Can I make myself get interested in something in which I have no interest?" or "Where do 'my' interests come from?" Humans are very funny. They think that they know so many things, and yet they don't know how they grow a single hair, think a single thought, move a single blood cell, or even see. The truth is much stranger than fiction! Meanwhile, Sheriff murders Judge. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 25, 2024 16:49:51 GMT -5
Yes. Realizing THIS ends all searching, practicing, or attempting to stay in a particular state of mind/attentiveness/etc. Realizing THIS is the discovery of what we might call "the big picture." After that discovery, one can relax and simply be what one is--THIS, however that manifests. Until the realization of THIS occurs, it feels as if one is a separate volitional entity doing something in order to get something, but this is all an illusion that we call "the concensus paradigm." THIS, or Source, is an undivided whole in which nothing (no thing) is separate from anything (any thing) else. This is why Adya tells people to "be as you are" and it's why Zen Masters tell students that "your ordinary everyday life is The Way." There is no separate entity that circulates blood, moves nerve impulses, contracts muscles, grows teeth and hair, or does anything else. There is only THIS doing whatever is done. Every human is THIS whether they know it or not, and not a single boundary separates a human from all that is, or THIS. It's ironic than humans classify things like the circulation of blood or the activity of breathing as somehow autonomic and not under their control, but think that they are separate entities that can do things like make choices, think particular thoughts, or practice one activity rather than another activity. For those who see "the big picture" the idea that one can practice one's way to enlightenment or to a different state of mind is incredibly humorous as well as poignant. In fact, anyone who has an interest in enlightenment or freedom has that interest because THIS is manifesting in that particular way. One way to help penetrate the illusion of personal doership is to ask, "Can I make myself get interested in something in which I have no interest?" or "Where do 'my' interests come from?" Humans are very funny. They think that they know so many things, and yet they don't know how they grow a single hair, think a single thought, move a single blood cell, or even see. The truth is much stranger than fiction! Which is equivalent to saying that THIS murders THIS. THIS manifests as both the sinner and the saint. There is no "other." Everything that happens is an unfolding of THIS. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 25, 2024 23:47:48 GMT -5
Which is equivalent to saying that THIS murders THIS. THIS manifests as both the sinner and the saint. There is no "other." Everything that happens is an unfolding of THIS. I call this kind of interpretation of events: armchair living. Just watched a BritBox series: "One of Us" (aka "Retribution"). Imagine you are one of its characters. Your brother and his pregnant wife, whom he just married two weeks ago, are killed in a robbery by a homeless drug addict. The murderer steals a car and is headed to the rural area were the victims' families live, as neighbors. Stormy weather, drugs, state of mind cause the murderer to roll over and get badly hurt right when he reaches your backyard. You and the others, about 7-8 people over the two families, as you try to save the driver's life, learn from the news that he murdered your relatives, and the police try to apprehend him. You found in his pocket your address on a piece of paper too. As the driver seems to briefly recover consciousness, you all decide for your protection to put him into an animal cage until tomorrow, when an ambulance and the police could reach your area, which is inaccessible due to the storm. Next morning you find the driver in his cage with his throat cut. Nobody confesses, and each family suspects one of their own, so everybody hesitates what course of action to take. If you were one of those characters, and you knew that one of your relatives, or close neighbors murdered that murderer of your brother and his freshly wed pregnant wife, what would you do? What if you consider that the police might be wrong in their assessment and assignment of guilt to that drug addict? What if the drug addict were a paranoid schizophrenic who skipped taking his meds? Fear, civic sense, compassion, righteousness? What drives you? Do you agree to participate in a cover-up? Do you go to the police and tell what you know, and make one of yours pay for their revenge on the murderer? Can you really put yourself in the shoes of that character, and think as if that whole tragedy happened to you and your family, and as if you really had to make that choice? THIS murders THIS? That's what I call armchair living. That's why most of us need to experience such tragedies, and suffering: to have to make choices believing there is no safety net. Not from your armchair, watching tv and dispensing judgments ... |
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Post by sharon on Sept 25, 2024 23:53:39 GMT -5
Which is equivalent to saying that THIS murders THIS. THIS manifests as both the sinner and the saint. There is no "other." Everything that happens is an unfolding of THIS. I call this kind of interpretation of events: armchair living. Just watched a BritBox series: "One of Us" (aka "Retribution"). Imagine you are one of its characters. Your brother and his pregnant wife, whom he just married two weeks ago, are killed in a robbery by a homeless drug addict. The murderer steals a car and is headed to the rural area were the victims' families live, as neighbors. Stormy weather, drugs, state of mind cause the murderer to roll over and get badly hurt right when he reaches your backyard. You and the others, about 7-8 people over the two families, as you try to save the driver's life, learn from the news that he murdered your relatives, and the police try to apprehend him. You found in his pocket your address on a piece of paper too. As the driver seems to briefly recover consciousness, you all decide for your protection to put him into an animal cage until tomorrow, when an ambulance and the police could reach your area, which is inaccessible due to the storm. Next morning you find the driver in his cage with his throat cut. Nobody confesses, and each family suspects one of their own, so everybody hesitates what course of action to take. If you were one of those characters, and you knew that one of your relatives, or close neighbors murdered that murderer of your brother and his freshly wed pregnant wife, what would you do? What if you consider that the police might be wrong in their assessment and assignment of guilt to that drug addict? What if the drug addict were a paranoid schizophrenic who skipped taking his meds? Fear, civic sense, compassion, righteousness? What drives you? Do you agree to participate in a cover-up? Do you go to the police and tell what you know, and make on of yours pay for their revenge on the murderer? Can you really put yourself in the shoes of that character, and think as if that whole tragedy happened to you and your family, and as if you really had to make that choice? THIS murders THIS? That's what I call armchair living. That's why most of us need to experience such tragedies, and suffering: to have to make choices believing there is no safety net. Not from your armchair, watching tv and dispensing judgments ... THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 26, 2024 0:28:52 GMT -5
I call this kind of interpretation of events: armchair living. Just watched a BritBox series: "One of Us" (aka "Retribution"). Imagine you are one of its characters. Your brother and his pregnant wife, whom he just married two weeks ago, are killed in a robbery by a homeless drug addict. The murderer steals a car and is headed to the rural area were the victims' families live, as neighbors. Stormy weather, drugs, state of mind cause the murderer to roll over and get badly hurt right when he reaches your backyard. You and the others, about 7-8 people over the two families, as you try to save the driver's life, learn from the news that he murdered your relatives, and the police try to apprehend him. You found in his pocket your address on a piece of paper too. As the driver seems to briefly recover consciousness, you all decide for your protection to put him into an animal cage until tomorrow, when an ambulance and the police could reach your area, which is inaccessible due to the storm. Next morning you find the driver in his cage with his throat cut. Nobody confesses, and each family suspects one of their own, so everybody hesitates what course of action to take. If you were one of those characters, and you knew that one of your relatives, or close neighbors murdered that murderer of your brother and his freshly wed pregnant wife, what would you do? What if you consider that the police might be wrong in their assessment and assignment of guilt to that drug addict? What if the drug addict were a paranoid schizophrenic who skipped taking his meds? Fear, civic sense, compassion, righteousness? What drives you? Do you agree to participate in a cover-up? Do you go to the police and tell what you know, and make on of yours pay for their revenge on the murderer? Can you really put yourself in the shoes of that character, and think as if that whole tragedy happened to you and your family, and as if you really had to make that choice? THIS murders THIS? That's what I call armchair living. That's why most of us need to experience such tragedies, and suffering: to have to make choices believing there is no safety net. Not from your armchair, watching tv and dispensing judgments ... THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. Even that's armchair living, which results in one's stagnation. |
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Practice
Sept 26, 2024 1:39:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sharon on Sept 26, 2024 1:39:52 GMT -5
THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. Even that's armchair living, which results in one's stagnation. It was you that said imagine that you’re a character in a tv drama. |
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Post by sharon on Sept 26, 2024 1:42:03 GMT -5
THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. Even that's armchair living, which results in one's stagnation. Me thinks that you’re in need of an adventure. |
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Practice
Sept 26, 2024 1:51:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by steven on Sept 26, 2024 1:51:21 GMT -5
I call this kind of interpretation of events: armchair living. Just watched a BritBox series: "One of Us" (aka "Retribution"). Imagine you are one of its characters. Your brother and his pregnant wife, whom he just married two weeks ago, are killed in a robbery by a homeless drug addict. The murderer steals a car and is headed to the rural area were the victims' families live, as neighbors. Stormy weather, drugs, state of mind cause the murderer to roll over and get badly hurt right when he reaches your backyard. You and the others, about 7-8 people over the two families, as you try to save the driver's life, learn from the news that he murdered your relatives, and the police try to apprehend him. You found in his pocket your address on a piece of paper too. As the driver seems to briefly recover consciousness, you all decide for your protection to put him into an animal cage until tomorrow, when an ambulance and the police could reach your area, which is inaccessible due to the storm. Next morning you find the driver in his cage with his throat cut. Nobody confesses, and each family suspects one of their own, so everybody hesitates what course of action to take. If you were one of those characters, and you knew that one of your relatives, or close neighbors murdered that murderer of your brother and his freshly wed pregnant wife, what would you do? What if you consider that the police might be wrong in their assessment and assignment of guilt to that drug addict? What if the drug addict were a paranoid schizophrenic who skipped taking his meds? Fear, civic sense, compassion, righteousness? What drives you? Do you agree to participate in a cover-up? Do you go to the police and tell what you know, and make on of yours pay for their revenge on the murderer? Can you really put yourself in the shoes of that character, and think as if that whole tragedy happened to you and your family, and as if you really had to make that choice? THIS murders THIS? That's what I call armchair living. That's why most of us need to experience such tragedies, and suffering: to have to make choices believing there is no safety net. Not from your armchair, watching tv and dispensing judgments ... THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. Yeah, but imagination can be very powerful…it’s entirely possible that’s all there is to any of THIS. |
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Practice
Sept 26, 2024 2:08:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sharon on Sept 26, 2024 2:08:38 GMT -5
THIS imagines that it’s a character in a TV drama. Yeah, but imagination can be very powerful…it’s entirely possible that’s all there is to any of THIS. I’ll buy that. |
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