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Post by laughter on Sept 6, 2024 16:58:52 GMT -5
Interesting and poignant "thought experiment" mel, maybe I'll give it a try. Reminds me of some dream states. Also reminds me of what Seth advised, to "close your eyes, and try to perceive what is there without seeing". The state as you describe it shares some characteristics to people who get diagnosed with schizophrenia. In my experience, they respond to positive (but gentle) emotions, these calm them. Also, one can be quite lucid and engaged with the world as their old perspective suddenly melts away in the face of sincere and sustained existential questioning. As zd points out sometimes, your blood flows and your heart pumps. Your hair grows, and breathing happens. Are you doing that?  I like to drink 3-4 cans of cold beer. Maybe it will help me answer that question, laffy. Self-realization sometimes bores me without a drink or two.  |
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Post by melvin on Sept 6, 2024 18:00:58 GMT -5
I like to drink 3-4 cans of cold beer. Maybe it will help me answer that question, laffy. Self-realization sometimes bores me without a drink or two. |
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Practice
Sept 9, 2024 21:01:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by steven on Sept 9, 2024 21:01:46 GMT -5
I was speaking literally. Glad to know you can do that, I dont. That’s unfortunate. |
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Practice
Sept 9, 2024 21:05:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by steven on Sept 9, 2024 21:05:35 GMT -5
Leonard Cohen: "Meditation is not what you think. You sit in absolute silence and your mind starts going over all your movies. During that process, you become so familiar with the scripts you keep in your life that you end up getting sick of them. Then you realize that the person you think you are is nothing but a complicated script you spend most of your energy on. After a more thorough examination, you discover your personality disgusts you, and that’s because it's not really you. If you feel terrified enough about that personality, you spontaneously allow it to fade away. Then, if you're lucky, you can experience yourself without the distortion of that personality. There's so much talk about the mechanics of happiness - psychiatry and pills, positive thinking and ideology - but I really think the mechanism is there. All you have to do is get quiet for a moment." ~ Leonard Cohen That’s not meditation, sounds like earnest self reflection. Not the same thing. |
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Post by steven on Sept 9, 2024 21:14:54 GMT -5
Well, self realization isn't a practice, it's an event or even series of events. Sudden shifts in perspective that are usually (I know of no exception) quite radical. It's not an open-ended process. For anyone who realizes the existential truth there comes a realization that ends the seeking. The mind functions of a person suffering from Alzheimer's or similar are mechanistic observations and descriptions. I can understand your interest given your vocation, but if you're interested in the realization aspect, you're posing the existential question in the form of "what is the enlightened being?". There's no answer to the existential question ascertainable by the faculties of intellect or emotion, so your interest in the machine, isn't really an interest in realization.Richard Rose is someone that many understand to have realized the truth. The owner of this forum, Shawn Nevins, wrote about being around Richard's group as Richard went through the loss of faculties near the end. Is the mind a machine? Yes |
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Post by steven on Sept 9, 2024 21:19:11 GMT -5
We cant disregard the body/machine in the art of self-realization. What ever happens to one's body/machine affects the brain/mind. We lose focus on the Essence, of who we are. We can't play God most of the time since we are grounded to this body/machine. A self-realized will have difficulties in focusing on what is, say if one has cancer. Unless, of course, you are a Buddha. On the contrary, one of the greatest gifts anyone can get is knowledge of their own imminent death. The wonder of all that is this life, every part of it, is poignant and wonder filled and has immense clarity to it when you have months or weeks or minutes left to live. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 9, 2024 23:07:42 GMT -5
We cant disregard the body/machine in the art of self-realization. What ever happens to one's body/machine affects the brain/mind. We lose focus on the Essence, of who we are. We can't play God most of the time since we are grounded to this body/machine. A self-realized will have difficulties in focusing on what is, say if one has cancer. Unless, of course, you are a Buddha. On the contrary, one of the greatest gifts anyone can get is knowledge of their own imminent death. The wonder of all that is this life, every part of it, is poignant and wonder filled and has immense clarity to it when you have months or weeks or minutes left to live. I disagree. With both. |
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Post by melvin on Sept 9, 2024 23:35:35 GMT -5
We cant disregard the body/machine in the art of self-realization. What ever happens to one's body/machine affects the brain/mind. We lose focus on the Essence, of who we are. We can't play God most of the time since we are grounded to this body/machine. A self-realized will have difficulties in focusing on what is, say if one has cancer. Unless, of course, you are a Buddha. On the contrary, one of the greatest gifts anyone can get is knowledge of their own imminent death. The wonder of all that is this life, every part of it, is poignant and wonder filled and has immense clarity to it when you have months or weeks or minutes left to live. If you know you are going to die, what would you do? Settle everything. Leave a testament/will so that your spouse, children, relatives know what they're gonna get from your personal assets, bank deposit, properties. So, they wont quarrel, if you are rich. But if you are poor, its the other way around. They will have to spend for your hospital care, burial. If its cancer, you wish you get a heart attack asap. They will not have to spend that much on your terminal bed. In my death bed, I wont have to picture, perceive how beautiful is life, the universe, and all the beautiful things in this world. My only request from my wife or kin is to play constantly for me the maha mantra on youtube over my phone until my last breathe. I dont wish liberation from the cycle of birth and death. All I want to be in my next life is to be able to remember Krishna. You see, I felt I was a Narada Muni or a Bilvamangala Thakur in my past lives. Their attributes seemed to fit mine. Now, I am Melvin. |
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 10, 2024 5:40:21 GMT -5
Melvin is the former krsna, right, the Doc? As I remember, loquacious is an understatement.
"Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare"
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Post by melvin on Sept 10, 2024 6:15:18 GMT -5
Melvin is the former krsna, right, the Doc? As I remember, loquacious is an understatement. "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare" "Loquacious" means very talkative or chatty, often to the point of being excessive. In the past ST, I was krsnaraja. Then I transfered to figgles' SG. I was there during the pandemic. SG was a wonderful garden until figgles uprooted my plants. SG's barren now. She should not have done it. They were so to speak, a diary painstakingly written for posterity. I did not misbehave. To her, they distracted her criticisms on Reefs and ZD's views she posted on her Non-Duality Discussion Forum which I was not actually a part. Figgles gave me space herself in the lower floor because she couldn't stand my chattiness. Then something happened. When I began posting in that private space Nisa's " I am " quotes with AI interpretation. She insisted I should have none of it in her forum. I wonder why. I was banished. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 20, 2024 1:39:48 GMT -5
I spoke last time about the first step in getting to know oneself better and having the opportunity to prove to oneself whether what Gurdjieff says about man's condition and situation is true for you personally. I spoke about a method of observation of self--of one's thoughts, one's emotion, one's sensations, one's actions--which requires a special effort with attention: a division of attention into two parts. One of these parts is directed towards whatever activity it's engaged in, whether it be a thought or action or whatever, and the other is directed to the experience of a point of awareness of what is going on.
I call it the Silent Witness. It's an impartial, unjudgmental witness to what goes on. It is extremely difficult to do this, and you will find at first that you can only do it for a split second, and then you find yourself with your attention wholly drawn into what you're doing; but with practice it becomes more possible.
Q: Could you say more about the Silent Witness?
Mr. Ripman: Well, you start with the fact that it is silent. It is not talking or thinking about what you are doing, but it is aware of what you are doing. You know, that for instance, that you can be absorbed in a book and be absolutely unaware of your posture or the sensations of you body because you are lost in the book. You also know that if I call your attention to that, you become aware of the posture and the sensations which are there all the time.
The Silent Witness pays attention to what goes on in the centers: to what goes on in the head, to what goes on in the heart, to what goes on in the body. It simply pays attention. It's like listening to music. You don't to manipulate the impressions you receive from music; you just receive them. The Silent Witness just receives impressions from your behavior. She hears your voice, both your inner and outer voice; she is aware of what happens to you. You have to struggle towards this. But at any rate, be sure that it's not thinking or internally talking about what's going on in you. It's simply being aware, as though each function had a mirror placed in front of it.
Q: What is this part that watches me?
Mr. Ripman: For the time being, you will not gain anything by having that defined. The thing to do is to experience the Silent Witness. I feel at this stage it wouldn't be helpful to put any words to it. I could do that, but it wouldn't make you any wiser. The thing to do is to gain more experience of it for yourself, to find how it feels different from the ordinary condition when your thoughts are experienced as "I", when your feelings are experienced as "I", when your body is experienced as "I". This is a little different.
Q: I have a hard time differentiating the Silent Witness from my mind.
Mr. Ripman: Yes, and if you don't do that, you don't understand what the Silent Witness is. You see, in the ordinary way, we live in the state which is called "identification". This means that I feel myself to be my functions. It may be a thought, it may be a feeling, it may be a sensation--but it is felt to be myself. The Silent Witness is exactly something that is not a function: not a thought, not a feeling, not a sensation.
One of the great difficulties of maintaining this special kind of attention is that when for a moment aware of something, one immediately starts thinking about it, judging it, or whatever. And one's sense of oneself slips into these feelings, these judgements of it, and one is lost. The Silent Witness is no longer there. It is very difficult to realize for oneself that this isn't a thinking effort. It is a naked awareness. It takes some people a couple of years to get it absolutely clear inside themselves, by experience, what this Silent Witness really is.
But I wish to emphasize that it isn't thinking about oneself. When you talk about being drawn back into yourself, you are being drawn back into thought about yourself, which is not the same thing at all. You are tempted the whole time to react to what you observe, but the moment that you do that you are no longer observing. And experience shows that it is extremely difficult not to react. Something immediately begins to think about it and a running commentary sets up, or one is pleased that one has seen something, or one is disgusted with what has been seen, or whatever. These reactions draw one's attention away from the naked experience of oneself. ...The Silent Witness is not involved with what you are doing, not elated by your successes, not downcast by your failures, he simply is, and experiences what is going on. It is only by a great deal of practice that it gradually becomes possible--certainly it is possible--to maintain something absolutely quiet and still within when you're engaged in no matter what. pages 54-57, Question and Answers Along the Way by Hugh Brockwill Ripman, 2009, Forthway Center Press, Washington, DC
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Post by melvin on Sept 20, 2024 7:47:48 GMT -5
I spoke last time about the first step in getting to know oneself better and having the opportunity to prove to oneself whether what Gurdjieff says about man's condition and situation is true for you personally. I spoke about a method of observation of self--of one's thoughts, one's emotion, one's sensations, one's actions--which requires a special effort with attention: a division of attention into two parts. One of these parts is directed towards whatever activity it's engaged in, whether it be a thought or action or whatever, and the other is directed to the experience of a point of awareness of what is going on. I call it the Silent Witness. It's an impartial, unjudgmental witness to what goes on. It is extremely difficult to do this, and you will find at first that you can only do it for a split second, and then you find yourself with your attention wholly drawn into what you're doing; but with practice it becomes more possible. Q: Could you say more about the Silent Witness? Mr. Ripman: Well, you start with the fact that it is silent. It is not talking or thinking about what you are doing, but it is aware of what you are doing. You know, that for instance, that you can be absorbed in a book and be absolutely unaware of your posture or the sensations of you body because you are lost in the book. You also know that if I call your attention to that, you become aware of the posture and the sensations which are there all the time. The Silent Witness pays attention to what goes on in the centers: to what goes on in the head, to what goes on in the heart, to what goes on in the body. It simply pays attention. It's like listening to music. You don't to manipulate the impressions you receive from music; you just receive them. The Silent Witness just receives impressions from your behavior. She hears your voice, both your inner and outer voice; she is aware of what happens to you. You have to struggle towards this. But at any rate, be sure that it's not thinking or internally talking about what's going on in you. It's simply being aware, as though each function had a mirror placed in front of it. Q: What is this part that watches me? Mr. Ripman: For the time being, you will not gain anything by having that defined. The thing to do is to experience the Silent Witness. I feel at this stage it wouldn't be helpful to put any words to it. I could do that, but it wouldn't make you any wiser. The thing to do is to gain more experience of it for yourself, to find how it feels different from the ordinary condition when your thoughts are experienced as "I", when your feelings are experienced as "I", when your body is experienced as "I". This is a little different. Q: I have a hard time differentiating the Silent Witness from my mind. Mr. Ripman: Yes, and if you don't do that, you don't understand what the Silent Witness is. You see, in the ordinary way, we live in the state which is called "identification". This means that I feel myself to be my functions. It may be a thought, it may be a feeling, it may be a sensation--but it is felt to be myself. The Silent Witness is exactly something that is not a function: not a thought, not a feeling, not a sensation. One of the great difficulties of maintaining this special kind of attention is that when for a moment aware of something, one immediately starts thinking about it, judging it, or whatever. And one's sense of oneself slips into these feelings, these judgements of it, and one is lost. The Silent Witness is no longer there. It is very difficult to realize for oneself that this isn't a thinking effort. It is a naked awareness. It takes some people a couple of years to get it absolutely clear inside themselves, by experience, what this Silent Witness really is. But I wish to emphasize that it isn't thinking about oneself. When you talk about being drawn back into yourself, you are being drawn back into thought about yourself, which is not the same thing at all. You are tempted the whole time to react to what you observe, but the moment that you do that you are no longer observing. And experience shows that it is extremely difficult not to react. Something immediately begins to think about it and a running commentary sets up, or one is pleased that one has seen something, or one is disgusted with what has been seen, or whatever. These reactions draw one's attention away from the naked experience of oneself. ... The Silent Witness is not involved with what you are doing, not elated by your successes, not downcast by your failures, he simply is, and experiences what is going on. It is only by a great deal of practice that it gradually becomes possible--certainly it is possible--to maintain something absolutely quiet and still within when you're engaged in no matter what. pages 54-57, Question and Answers Along the Way by Hugh Brockwill Ripman, 2009, Forthway Center Press, Washington, DC What happens to the Silent Witness if one chants the Maha Mantra? What a fascinating question! In Hinduism and Vaishnavism, the concept of "Silent Witness" (Sanskrit: साक्षी) refers to the individual self or soul that observes and experiences the world, including the cycles of birth, death, and rebirth. It is often described as a witness or observer that is separate from the ego or the individual's personality. Now, when it comes to the Maha Mantra, which is a sacred mantra in Hinduism and is considered to be the most powerful mantra for spiritual growth and liberation, chanting it can have a profound impact on the Silent Witness. According to spiritual teachings, when one chants the Maha Mantra with devotion and sincerity, it can help to: 1. Purify the mind: The Maha Mantra is said to purify the mind of impurities and distractions, allowing the individual to focus on their inner Self. 2. Awaken the inner Self: The mantra can help to awaken the Silent Witness or the individual's true nature, which is beyond the ego and the material world. 3. Dissolve the ego: The Maha Mantra can help to dissolve the ego and its attachments, allowing the individual to transcend their limited sense of self and connect with their higher Self. 4. Attain spiritual liberation: By chanting the Maha Mantra regularly, an individual can attain spiritual liberation (Moksha) or enlightenment, which is characterized by a state of eternal peace, joy, and awareness. In essence, when one chants the Maha Mantra with devotion and sincerity, it can help to reveal the Silent Witness or the individual's true nature, which is beyond the limitations of space and time. This can lead to a profound transformation of consciousness and a deeper understanding of one's place in the universe. I hope this helps! |
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Post by steven on Sept 20, 2024 10:45:01 GMT -5
I spoke last time about the first step in getting to know oneself better and having the opportunity to prove to oneself whether what Gurdjieff says about man's condition and situation is true for you personally. I spoke about a method of observation of self--of one's thoughts, one's emotion, one's sensations, one's actions--which requires a special effort with attention: a division of attention into two parts. One of these parts is directed towards whatever activity it's engaged in, whether it be a thought or action or whatever, and the other is directed to the experience of a point of awareness of what is going on. I call it the Silent Witness. It's an impartial, unjudgmental witness to what goes on. It is extremely difficult to do this, and you will find at first that you can only do it for a split second, and then you find yourself with your attention wholly drawn into what you're doing; but with practice it becomes more possible. Q: Could you say more about the Silent Witness? Mr. Ripman: Well, you start with the fact that it is silent. It is not talking or thinking about what you are doing, but it is aware of what you are doing. You know, that for instance, that you can be absorbed in a book and be absolutely unaware of your posture or the sensations of you body because you are lost in the book. You also know that if I call your attention to that, you become aware of the posture and the sensations which are there all the time. The Silent Witness pays attention to what goes on in the centers: to what goes on in the head, to what goes on in the heart, to what goes on in the body. It simply pays attention. It's like listening to music. You don't to manipulate the impressions you receive from music; you just receive them. The Silent Witness just receives impressions from your behavior. She hears your voice, both your inner and outer voice; she is aware of what happens to you. You have to struggle towards this. But at any rate, be sure that it's not thinking or internally talking about what's going on in you. It's simply being aware, as though each function had a mirror placed in front of it. Q: What is this part that watches me? Mr. Ripman: For the time being, you will not gain anything by having that defined. The thing to do is to experience the Silent Witness. I feel at this stage it wouldn't be helpful to put any words to it. I could do that, but it wouldn't make you any wiser. The thing to do is to gain more experience of it for yourself, to find how it feels different from the ordinary condition when your thoughts are experienced as "I", when your feelings are experienced as "I", when your body is experienced as "I". This is a little different. Q: I have a hard time differentiating the Silent Witness from my mind. Mr. Ripman: Yes, and if you don't do that, you don't understand what the Silent Witness is. You see, in the ordinary way, we live in the state which is called "identification". This means that I feel myself to be my functions. It may be a thought, it may be a feeling, it may be a sensation--but it is felt to be myself. The Silent Witness is exactly something that is not a function: not a thought, not a feeling, not a sensation. One of the great difficulties of maintaining this special kind of attention is that when for a moment aware of something, one immediately starts thinking about it, judging it, or whatever. And one's sense of oneself slips into these feelings, these judgements of it, and one is lost. The Silent Witness is no longer there. It is very difficult to realize for oneself that this isn't a thinking effort. It is a naked awareness. It takes some people a couple of years to get it absolutely clear inside themselves, by experience, what this Silent Witness really is. But I wish to emphasize that it isn't thinking about oneself. When you talk about being drawn back into yourself, you are being drawn back into thought about yourself, which is not the same thing at all. You are tempted the whole time to react to what you observe, but the moment that you do that you are no longer observing. And experience shows that it is extremely difficult not to react. Something immediately begins to think about it and a running commentary sets up, or one is pleased that one has seen something, or one is disgusted with what has been seen, or whatever. These reactions draw one's attention away from the naked experience of oneself. ...The Silent Witness is not involved with what you are doing, not elated by your successes, not downcast by your failures, he simply is, and experiences what is going on. It is only by a great deal of practice that it gradually becomes possible--certainly it is possible--to maintain something absolutely quiet and still within when you're engaged in no matter what. pages 54-57, Question and Answers Along the Way by Hugh Brockwill Ripman, 2009, Forthway Center Press, Washington, DC This is a very subtle thing. I spent many many many years with this and still return to it from time to time as a centering technique. Observe the observer. Whatever phenomenon you are experiencing with your five senses, whatever thoughts you are thinking internally, Whatever activities you are Participating in including observing the observer, are all phenomenon that are being observed… With this technique, you were turning inward beyond all that. Turning attention and maintaining it on the observer, including the observer that’s observing the observer lol It’s fundamentally the same as being aware of your awareness. If there is any difference between observe the observer and being aware of awareness is that the former is the same as the latter, but with more intensity and focus. In someways, it can be kind of an odd sensation when you first start doing it because your attention is continuously pulled to phenomenon, But you have to just keep saying to yourself and turning your attention toward what is the observer of this thought that’s happening, What is the observer of me TRYING to observe the observer?… You just keep pealing back the layers of the onion until you find that still silent observer, and then hold your attention on it as fastidiously as you can. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 20, 2024 11:43:57 GMT -5
I spoke last time about the first step in getting to know oneself better and having the opportunity to prove to oneself whether what Gurdjieff says about man's condition and situation is true for you personally. I spoke about a method of observation of self--of one's thoughts, one's emotion, one's sensations, one's actions--which requires a special effort with attention: a division of attention into two parts. One of these parts is directed towards whatever activity it's engaged in, whether it be a thought or action or whatever, and the other is directed to the experience of a point of awareness of what is going on. I call it the Silent Witness. It's an impartial, unjudgmental witness to what goes on. It is extremely difficult to do this, and you will find at first that you can only do it for a split second, and then you find yourself with your attention wholly drawn into what you're doing; but with practice it becomes more possible. Q: Could you say more about the Silent Witness? Mr. Ripman: Well, you start with the fact that it is silent. It is not talking or thinking about what you are doing, but it is aware of what you are doing. You know, that for instance, that you can be absorbed in a book and be absolutely unaware of your posture or the sensations of you body because you are lost in the book. You also know that if I call your attention to that, you become aware of the posture and the sensations which are there all the time. The Silent Witness pays attention to what goes on in the centers: to what goes on in the head, to what goes on in the heart, to what goes on in the body. It simply pays attention. It's like listening to music. You don't to manipulate the impressions you receive from music; you just receive them. The Silent Witness just receives impressions from your behavior. She hears your voice, both your inner and outer voice; she is aware of what happens to you. You have to struggle towards this. But at any rate, be sure that it's not thinking or internally talking about what's going on in you. It's simply being aware, as though each function had a mirror placed in front of it. Q: What is this part that watches me? Mr. Ripman: For the time being, you will not gain anything by having that defined. The thing to do is to experience the Silent Witness. I feel at this stage it wouldn't be helpful to put any words to it. I could do that, but it wouldn't make you any wiser. The thing to do is to gain more experience of it for yourself, to find how it feels different from the ordinary condition when your thoughts are experienced as "I", when your feelings are experienced as "I", when your body is experienced as "I". This is a little different. Q: I have a hard time differentiating the Silent Witness from my mind. Mr. Ripman: Yes, and if you don't do that, you don't understand what the Silent Witness is. You see, in the ordinary way, we live in the state which is called "identification". This means that I feel myself to be my functions. It may be a thought, it may be a feeling, it may be a sensation--but it is felt to be myself. The Silent Witness is exactly something that is not a function: not a thought, not a feeling, not a sensation. One of the great difficulties of maintaining this special kind of attention is that when for a moment aware of something, one immediately starts thinking about it, judging it, or whatever. And one's sense of oneself slips into these feelings, these judgements of it, and one is lost. The Silent Witness is no longer there. It is very difficult to realize for oneself that this isn't a thinking effort. It is a naked awareness. It takes some people a couple of years to get it absolutely clear inside themselves, by experience, what this Silent Witness really is. But I wish to emphasize that it isn't thinking about oneself. When you talk about being drawn back into yourself, you are being drawn back into thought about yourself, which is not the same thing at all. You are tempted the whole time to react to what you observe, but the moment that you do that you are no longer observing. And experience shows that it is extremely difficult not to react. Something immediately begins to think about it and a running commentary sets up, or one is pleased that one has seen something, or one is disgusted with what has been seen, or whatever. These reactions draw one's attention away from the naked experience of oneself. ...The Silent Witness is not involved with what you are doing, not elated by your successes, not downcast by your failures, he simply is, and experiences what is going on. It is only by a great deal of practice that it gradually becomes possible--certainly it is possible--to maintain something absolutely quiet and still within when you're engaged in no matter what. pages 54-57, Question and Answers Along the Way by Hugh Brockwill Ripman, 2009, Forthway Center Press, Washington, DC This is a very subtle thing. I spent many many many years with this and still return to it from time to time as a centering technique. Observe the observer. Whatever phenomenon you are experiencing with your five senses, whatever thoughts you are thinking internally, Whatever activities you are Participating in including observing the observer, are all phenomenon that are being observed… With this technique, you were turning inward beyond all that. Turning attention and maintaining it on the observer, including the observer that’s observing the observer lol It’s fundamentally the same as being aware of your awareness. If there is any difference between observe the observer and being aware of awareness is that the former is the same as the latter, but with more intensity and focus. In someways, it can be kind of an odd sensation when you first start doing it because your attention is continuously pulled to phenomenon, But you have to just keep saying to yourself and turning your attention toward what is the observer of this thought that’s happening, What is the observer of me TRYING to observe the observer?… You just keep pealing back the layers of the onion until you find that still silent observer, and then hold your attention on it as fastidiously as you can. , and yes. The saying to yourself, Mr. Ripman discusses this, that's not it, anything that's not-silent, is not it. But the saying can be a reminder. But you describe it well, anything whatever that arises, observe that, especially the saying to yourself, make sure you observe that, too. At some point you have to see that the actual observing, is, at least in the beginning, very brief, that's the actual moment of a conscious effort. Everything other than that moment is a mechanical effort, relatively useless. The saying to yourself is a mechanical effort, it's a kind of alarm clock. Yes, whatever arises, observe that. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 20, 2024 11:56:58 GMT -5
I spoke last time about the first step in getting to know oneself better and having the opportunity to prove to oneself whether what Gurdjieff says about man's condition and situation is true for you personally. I spoke about a method of observation of self--of one's thoughts, one's emotion, one's sensations, one's actions--which requires a special effort with attention: a division of attention into two parts. One of these parts is directed towards whatever activity it's engaged in, whether it be a thought or action or whatever, and the other is directed to the experience of a point of awareness of what is going on. I call it the Silent Witness. It's an impartial, unjudgmental witness to what goes on. It is extremely difficult to do this, and you will find at first that you can only do it for a split second, and then you find yourself with your attention wholly drawn into what you're doing; but with practice it becomes more possible. Q: Could you say more about the Silent Witness? Mr. Ripman: Well, you start with the fact that it is silent. It is not talking or thinking about what you are doing, but it is aware of what you are doing. You know, that for instance, that you can be absorbed in a book and be absolutely unaware of your posture or the sensations of you body because you are lost in the book. You also know that if I call your attention to that, you become aware of the posture and the sensations which are there all the time. The Silent Witness pays attention to what goes on in the centers: to what goes on in the head, to what goes on in the heart, to what goes on in the body. It simply pays attention. It's like listening to music. You don't to manipulate the impressions you receive from music; you just receive them. The Silent Witness just receives impressions from your behavior. She hears your voice, both your inner and outer voice; she is aware of what happens to you. You have to struggle towards this. But at any rate, be sure that it's not thinking or internally talking about what's going on in you. It's simply being aware, as though each function had a mirror placed in front of it. Q: What is this part that watches me? Mr. Ripman: For the time being, you will not gain anything by having that defined. The thing to do is to experience the Silent Witness. I feel at this stage it wouldn't be helpful to put any words to it. I could do that, but it wouldn't make you any wiser. The thing to do is to gain more experience of it for yourself, to find how it feels different from the ordinary condition when your thoughts are experienced as "I", when your feelings are experienced as "I", when your body is experienced as "I". This is a little different. Q: I have a hard time differentiating the Silent Witness from my mind. Mr. Ripman: Yes, and if you don't do that, you don't understand what the Silent Witness is. You see, in the ordinary way, we live in the state which is called "identification". This means that I feel myself to be my functions. It may be a thought, it may be a feeling, it may be a sensation--but it is felt to be myself. The Silent Witness is exactly something that is not a function: not a thought, not a feeling, not a sensation. One of the great difficulties of maintaining this special kind of attention is that when for a moment aware of something, one immediately starts thinking about it, judging it, or whatever. And one's sense of oneself slips into these feelings, these judgements of it, and one is lost. The Silent Witness is no longer there. It is very difficult to realize for oneself that this isn't a thinking effort. It is a naked awareness. It takes some people a couple of years to get it absolutely clear inside themselves, by experience, what this Silent Witness really is. But I wish to emphasize that it isn't thinking about oneself. When you talk about being drawn back into yourself, you are being drawn back into thought about yourself, which is not the same thing at all. You are tempted the whole time to react to what you observe, but the moment that you do that you are no longer observing. And experience shows that it is extremely difficult not to react. Something immediately begins to think about it and a running commentary sets up, or one is pleased that one has seen something, or one is disgusted with what has been seen, or whatever. These reactions draw one's attention away from the naked experience of oneself. ... The Silent Witness is not involved with what you are doing, not elated by your successes, not downcast by your failures, he simply is, and experiences what is going on. It is only by a great deal of practice that it gradually becomes possible--certainly it is possible--to maintain something absolutely quiet and still within when you're engaged in no matter what. pages 54-57, Question and Answers Along the Way by Hugh Brockwill Ripman, 2009, Forthway Center Press, Washington, DC What happens to the Silent Witness if one chants the Maha Mantra? What a fascinating question! In Hinduism and Vaishnavism, the concept of "Silent Witness" (Sanskrit: साक्षी) refers to the individual self or soul that observes and experiences the world, including the cycles of birth, death, and rebirth. It is often described as a witness or observer that is separate from the ego or the individual's personality. Now, when it comes to the Maha Mantra, which is a sacred mantra in Hinduism and is considered to be the most powerful mantra for spiritual growth and liberation, chanting it can have a profound impact on the Silent Witness. According to spiritual teachings, when one chants the Maha Mantra with devotion and sincerity, it can help to: 1. Purify the mind: The Maha Mantra is said to purify the mind of impurities and distractions, allowing the individual to focus on their inner Self. 2. Awaken the inner Self: The mantra can help to awaken the Silent Witness or the individual's true nature, which is beyond the ego and the material world. 3. Dissolve the ego: The Maha Mantra can help to dissolve the ego and its attachments, allowing the individual to transcend their limited sense of self and connect with their higher Self. 4. Attain spiritual liberation: By chanting the Maha Mantra regularly, an individual can attain spiritual liberation (Moksha) or enlightenment, which is characterized by a state of eternal peace, joy, and awareness. In essence, when one chants the Maha Mantra with devotion and sincerity, it can help to reveal the Silent Witness or the individual's true nature, which is beyond the limitations of space and time. This can lead to a profound transformation of consciousness and a deeper understanding of one's place in the universe. I hope this helps! A mantra is obviously not-silent. A mantra can be a reminder to ~enter in to~ the silence, a kind of alarm clock, the old kind that you would wind up. Then, the alarm clock has its own energy, its own reminding energy. But an "alarm clock" is a mechanical effort, it's not what Mr. Ripman is talking about (this is a transcript of a meeting). An alarm clock will eventually run down. There is no such thing as perpetual motion, entropy is everywhere and in all things manifest. |
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