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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 11, 2023 1:23:08 GMT -5
You can skip to minute 1:30. The assassin had been convinced Gandhi was a fraud, there was a conspiracy, watch to 3:15. But Gandhi forgave the killer, and said: Hey Ram as his last words. Then the assassin knew he had been duped, that indeed Gandhi was a holy man. 1963, Nine Hours to Rama. "Forgiveness" ... "Holy man" ... Other unnecessary concepts likely to be detrimental. How do you figure that? Forgive does not mean the other person is not accountable. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the culprit. (If you hold any animosity in your heart, ever, it hurts you, so it's best to forgive ASAP). The other reminds me of a totally cool little book, and its sequel, The Holy Man and The Holy Man's Journey. Spoiler alert. It's a fictional short little book, books. Joe lives high up on a mountain with a few disciples, and he has thousands of people to come to meet him during the warm months when the snow has melted and the cold is not a problem. There are so many people only one minute is allowed to meet with Joe (he is generally known just as the Holy Man). When it's your turn you are met at the front door of the house by a greeter. The greeter escorts you through the house, and then out the back door, which takes about a minute. When you get to the back door, you figure out something is up. And you ask something like, but what about the Holy Man? I didn't meet the Holy Man, or some such. The greeter says, well, I'm Joe, who you came to see, goodbye, and make sure you keep the secret, don't tell anybody the greeter is the Holy Man. They are escorted to a trail down the back side of the mountain back to the nearby town. ...Some people figure it out, and their one minute is well spent... You can wait for weeks or months in line, on the mountainside, but some people come back a second time... I liked it enough to keep look for a sequel, which is equally as good. There are holy people, but, looking from the outside, you'll never know they're holy, never. Another most excellent little book, very similar, The Journey to the East by Herman Hesse, my favorite book of his. Very similar is almost a spoiler, but I'll not spoil this one. The Holy Man by Susan Trott
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 8:26:23 GMT -5
"Forgiveness" ... "Holy man" ... Other unnecessary concepts likely to be detrimental. How do you figure that? Forgive does not mean the other person is not accountable. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the culprit. (If you hold any animosity in your heart, ever, it hurts you, so it's best to forgive ASAP). The other reminds me of a totally cool little book, and its sequel, The Holy Man and The Holy Man's Journey. Spoiler alert. It's a fictional short little book, books. Joe lives high up on a mountain with a few disciples, and he has thousands of people to come to meet him during the warm months when the snow has melted and the cold is not a problem. There are so many people only one minute is allowed to meet with Joe (he is generally known just as the Holy Man). When it's your turn you are met at the front door of the house by a greeter. The greeter escorts you through the house, and then out the back door, which takes about a minute. When you get to the back door, you figure out something is up. And you ask something like, but what about the Holy Man? I didn't meet the Holy Man, or some such. The greeter says, well, I'm Joe, who you came to see, goodbye, and make sure you keep the secret, don't tell anybody the greeter is the Holy Man. They are escorted to a trail down the back side of the mountain back to the nearby town. ...Some people figure it out, and their one minute is well spent... You can wait for weeks or months in line, on the mountainside, but some people come back a second time... I liked it enough to keep look for a sequel, which is equally as good. There are holy people, but, looking from the outside, you'll never know they're holy, never. Another most excellent little book, very similar, The Journey to the East by Herman Hesse, my favorite book of his. Very similar is almost a spoiler, but I'll not spoil this one. The Holy Man by Susan Trott When you think in terms of "forgiving" or "holy men" you raise illusionary obstacles to yourself. You give away your power to shape your reality to illusionary constructs. Nobody does anything to you that you didn't invite, and you do nothing to another that wasn't invited by him. Forgiveness has no place. You can't know who's "holy" from who's a pretender, delusional or not. Your source of knowledge is inside yourself; the outside is only props that reflect your inner state. The essential difference is between seeing yourself as a part of an outer reality, observed through your five physical senses, and seeing yourself as part of an inner reality, that is filtered and projected to your five senses because at this stage you can't handle more.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 11, 2023 10:53:12 GMT -5
How do you figure that? Forgive does not mean the other person is not accountable. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the culprit. (If you hold any animosity in your heart, ever, it hurts you, so it's best to forgive ASAP). The other reminds me of a totally cool little book, and its sequel, The Holy Man and The Holy Man's Journey. Spoiler alert. It's a fictional short little book, books. Joe lives high up on a mountain with a few disciples, and he has thousands of people to come to meet him during the warm months when the snow has melted and the cold is not a problem. There are so many people only one minute is allowed to meet with Joe (he is generally known just as the Holy Man). When it's your turn you are met at the front door of the house by a greeter. The greeter escorts you through the house, and then out the back door, which takes about a minute. When you get to the back door, you figure out something is up. And you ask something like, but what about the Holy Man? I didn't meet the Holy Man, or some such. The greeter says, well, I'm Joe, who you came to see, goodbye, and make sure you keep the secret, don't tell anybody the greeter is the Holy Man. They are escorted to a trail down the back side of the mountain back to the nearby town. ...Some people figure it out, and their one minute is well spent... You can wait for weeks or months in line, on the mountainside, but some people come back a second time... I liked it enough to keep look for a sequel, which is equally as good. There are holy people, but, looking from the outside, you'll never know they're holy, never. Another most excellent little book, very similar, The Journey to the East by Herman Hesse, my favorite book of his. Very similar is almost a spoiler, but I'll not spoil this one. The Holy Man by Susan Trott When you think in terms of "forgiving" or "holy men" you raise illusionary obstacles to yourself. You give away your power to shape your reality to illusionary constructs.Nobody does anything to you that you didn't invite, and you do nothing to another that wasn't invited by him. Forgiveness has no place. You can't know who's "holy" from who's a pretender, delusional or not. Your source of knowledge is inside yourself; the outside is only props that reflect your inner state.The essential difference is between seeing yourself as a part of an outer reality, observed through your five physical senses, and seeing yourself as part of an inner reality, that is filtered and projected to your five senses because at this stage you can't handle more.I came here just now to start another thread, checked my notifications. At some point LOA breaks down, just breaks, period. I think I've found the dividing line, to put it not-delicately, but succinctly. This gives me a little pause to consider how to do the thread. Announced about 25 minutes ago, they have found babies and toddlers decapitated by Hamas in Kfar Aza just outside of Gaza from the Saturday attack. Announced and verified about 25 minutes ago, about 11:30 AM ET. Every time in the past I found my ~view of how the universe works~ lacking, I continued my search. I don't know if your view is merely theoretical, or you have experientially verified it, I've put off asking. But I'd like to ask, does having babies heads cut off fit into your paradigm?
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -5
Because of the particular themes that humanity is exploring, I can't say it is that simple. For example, if some folks have a life theme to explore suffering, helplessness and powerlessness...and then die....then they won't be exploring what it means to consciously use focus. LOA is only simple....once we know it. But even then, it assumes that we always have the power of choice...the basic choice to move focus/attention at 'will'. Sometimes that 'will' is absent, and that can be an important human exploration too. Agree with 2nd paragraph, with the caveat that if it takes effort to draw attention away, then that effort is counter-productive too. Sometimes the path of least resistance is to stay and watch the madness. It all depends on our exploration. It does take some willpower and maybe even some discipline in the beginning to make that turn, to slow down the negative momentum, depending how far off your path you already are. But once you've made that turn, it's going to be easier and easier as momentum in the other direction is picking up until you reach a point where can't even remember anymore how that felt being off your path, in the ditch and brambling thru the bushes in the dark. You will look back at those times as if it was just a bad dream, as if it never actually happened. Here's a quote for you from Bronnie, I think you may like it... Yeah like that a lot, what's not to like! And I agree about willpower/momentum/discipline, though I come back to the point that folks are only ready, when they are ready...when the capacity is there, when the stars line up. On the flip side, that shouldn't be taken as a cop out, my view is that if you CAN choose, then choose! The crux of this goes back to age old discussions about choice vs choicelessness....I have sympathies with both sides of the coin, and a big part of my lesson in the last 10 years has been about allowing people to have their path/journey. There are some folks that simply cannot 'focus' in a positive way....until they can.
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2023 11:32:17 GMT -5
When you think in terms of "forgiving" or "holy men" you raise illusionary obstacles to yourself. You give away your power to shape your reality to illusionary constructs.Nobody does anything to you that you didn't invite, and you do nothing to another that wasn't invited by him. Forgiveness has no place. You can't know who's "holy" from who's a pretender, delusional or not. Your source of knowledge is inside yourself; the outside is only props that reflect your inner state.The essential difference is between seeing yourself as a part of an outer reality, observed through your five physical senses, and seeing yourself as part of an inner reality, that is filtered and projected to your five senses because at this stage you can't handle more.I came here just now to start another thread, checked my notifications. At some point LOA breaks down, just breaks, period. I think I've found the dividing line, to put it not-delicately, but succinctly. This gives me a little pause to consider how to do the thread. Announced about 25 minutes ago, they have found babies and toddlers decapitated by Hamas in Kfar Aza just outside of Gaza from the Saturday attack. Announced and verified about 25 minutes ago, about 11:30 AM ET. Every time in the past I found my ~view of how the universe works~ lacking, I continued my search. I don't know if your view is merely theoretical, or you have experientially verified it, I've put off asking. But I'd like to ask, does having babies heads cut off fit into your paradigm? There's controversy around this news item...the fog of war is confusing. That's not to say I believe it is false, or that I'd be surprised, but the source of this news items is Israel, so....right now, I think caution is sensible. However, I agree that LOA cannot adequately explain our reality...or the human experience, even if it is a universal principle.
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Post by laughter on Oct 11, 2023 12:50:24 GMT -5
Sorry. That is so not true. Yes it is.
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 13:03:13 GMT -5
When you think in terms of "forgiving" or "holy men" you raise illusionary obstacles to yourself. You give away your power to shape your reality to illusionary constructs.Nobody does anything to you that you didn't invite, and you do nothing to another that wasn't invited by him. Forgiveness has no place. You can't know who's "holy" from who's a pretender, delusional or not. Your source of knowledge is inside yourself; the outside is only props that reflect your inner state.The essential difference is between seeing yourself as a part of an outer reality, observed through your five physical senses, and seeing yourself as part of an inner reality, that is filtered and projected to your five senses because at this stage you can't handle more.I came here just now to start another thread, checked my notifications. At some point LOA breaks down, just breaks, period. I think I've found the dividing line, to put it not-delicately, but succinctly. This gives me a little pause to consider how to do the thread. Announced about 25 minutes ago, they have found babies and toddlers decapitated by Hamas in Kfar Aza just outside of Gaza from the Saturday attack. Announced and verified about 25 minutes ago, about 11:30 AM ET. Every time in the past I found my ~view of how the universe works~ lacking, I continued my search. I don't know if your view is merely theoretical, or you have experientially verified it, I've put off asking. But I'd like to ask, does having babies heads cut off fit into your paradigm? Obviously that is an unfair question, has you formulated it, that isn't a base for a spiritual discussion because it says more about you than it asks about me. Firstly, I don't discuss a paradigm, but my view and beliefs about the nature of reality. I see this as a significant nuance. You didn't reply, or I missed it, to my question to you about why Jews were / are persecuted over the "known" history, according to your views on the nature of reality. This is the only kind of angle I think to be worth discussing, and willing to discuss here. My views offer me a way to understand what I perceive, and a way to respond. I state them as part of my interaction to sustain my learning and growth quest. Having babies die in a terrorist attack, self-protection military action, natural disaster, crime, famine, medical malpractice, is as bad. It is as bad as having anybody die in the same conditions. You give significance to differentiations where they aren't significant, as I see reality. You don't see your own contribution to the image of reality that you perceive. You consider your experience imposed on you by an objective reality. I don't.
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 13:04:47 GMT -5
Sorry. That is so not true. Yes it is. Based on random behavior ... I get you.
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 13:36:22 GMT -5
I came here just now to start another thread, checked my notifications. At some point LOA breaks down, just breaks, period. I think I've found the dividing line, to put it not-delicately, but succinctly. This gives me a little pause to consider how to do the thread. Announced about 25 minutes ago, they have found babies and toddlers decapitated by Hamas in Kfar Aza just outside of Gaza from the Saturday attack. Announced and verified about 25 minutes ago, about 11:30 AM ET. Every time in the past I found my ~view of how the universe works~ lacking, I continued my search. I don't know if your view is merely theoretical, or you have experientially verified it, I've put off asking. But I'd like to ask, does having babies heads cut off fit into your paradigm? There's controversy around this news item...the fog of war is confusing. That's not to say I believe it is false, or that I'd be surprised, but the source of this news items is Israel, so....right now, I think caution is sensible. However, I agree that LOA cannot adequately explain our reality...or the human experience, even if it is a universal principle. It depends on what you interpret the LOA to mean. I don't use this term as part of my view of reality, but it points to elements of it. You can interpret reality only from your perspective, level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. What you see isn't exactly what it is, but a materialization of an inner reality, and this materialization is only yours; it isn't identical with anybody else's. There is no objective reference. At inner level you use inner senses, so the events and experiences are multi-dimensional, and are something else than what you perceive physically. Nobody dies in terms of destruction and annihilation. When you wake up, or go to sleep you just change focus; same when being born, or dying. You are immersed, hypnotized in some of these states, part by choice, part by mistake. In any state your experience is determined only by your level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. This is what LOA actually points to; not what most people believe to be. Nothing is imposed on you, nor from the physical world, nor from the inner world. Nobody to blame, nor to forgive, nor to put on a pedestal.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 11, 2023 13:39:48 GMT -5
I came here just now to start another thread, checked my notifications. At some point LOA breaks down, just breaks, period. I think I've found the dividing line, to put it not-delicately, but succinctly. This gives me a little pause to consider how to do the thread. Announced about 25 minutes ago, they have found babies and toddlers decapitated by Hamas in Kfar Aza just outside of Gaza from the Saturday attack. Announced and verified about 25 minutes ago, about 11:30 AM ET. Every time in the past I found my ~view of how the universe works~ lacking, I continued my search. I don't know if your view is merely theoretical, or you have experientially verified it, I've put off asking. But I'd like to ask, does having babies heads cut off fit into your paradigm? Obviously that is an unfair question, has you formulated it, that isn't a base for a spiritual discussion because it says more about you than it asks about me. Firstly, I don't discuss a paradigm, but my view and beliefs about the nature of reality. I see this as a significant nuance.You didn't reply, or I missed it, to my question to you about why Jews were / are persecuted over the "known" history, according to your views on the nature of reality. This is the only kind of angle I think to be worth discussing, and willing to discuss here. My views offer me a way to understand what I perceive, and a way to respond. I state them as part of my interaction to sustain my learning and growth quest. Having babies die in a terrorist attack, self-protection military action, natural disaster, crime, famine, medical malpractice, is as bad. It is as bad as having anybody die in the same conditions. You give significance to differentiations where they aren't significant, as I see reality. You don't see your own contribution to the image of reality that you perceive. You consider your experience imposed on you by an objective reality. I don't.Babies getting their heads cut off is not a fact-in-the-world? (Gopal?) A parent accidentally forgetting their child is in a hot car, and dying, is the same as a terrorist cutting a baby's head off? I don't think so. Why is that an unfair question? It is either true, or isn't. Israel would not lie about something that could be verified. (andrew, sorry) You didn't answer. Is your view theoretical, or does your memory extend to past lives?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 11, 2023 13:48:02 GMT -5
There's controversy around this news item...the fog of war is confusing. That's not to say I believe it is false, or that I'd be surprised, but the source of this news items is Israel, so....right now, I think caution is sensible. However, I agree that LOA cannot adequately explain our reality...or the human experience, even if it is a universal principle. It depends on what you interpret the LOA to mean. I don't use this term as part of my view of reality, but it points to elements of it. You can interpret reality only from your perspective, level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. What you see isn't exactly what it is, but a materialization of an inner reality, and this materialization is only yours; it isn't identical with anybody else's. There is no objective reference. At inner level you use inner senses, so the events and experiences are multi-dimensional, and are something else than what you perceive physically. Nobody dies in terms of destruction and annihilation. When you wake up, or go to sleep you just change focus; same when being born, or dying. You are immersed, hypnotized in some of these states, part by choice, part by mistake. In any state your experience is determined only by your level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. This is what LOA actually points to; not what most people believe to be. Nothing is imposed on you, nor from the physical world, nor from the inner world. Nobody to blame, nor to forgive, nor to put on a pedestal. Let's call a baby one who cannot walk. How is a baby getting its head cut off, not having this imposed upon him or her?
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 14:27:55 GMT -5
Obviously that is an unfair question, has you formulated it, that isn't a base for a spiritual discussion because it says more about you than it asks about me. Firstly, I don't discuss a paradigm, but my view and beliefs about the nature of reality. I see this as a significant nuance.You didn't reply, or I missed it, to my question to you about why Jews were / are persecuted over the "known" history, according to your views on the nature of reality. This is the only kind of angle I think to be worth discussing, and willing to discuss here. My views offer me a way to understand what I perceive, and a way to respond. I state them as part of my interaction to sustain my learning and growth quest. Having babies die in a terrorist attack, self-protection military action, natural disaster, crime, famine, medical malpractice, is as bad. It is as bad as having anybody die in the same conditions. You give significance to differentiations where they aren't significant, as I see reality. You don't see your own contribution to the image of reality that you perceive. You consider your experience imposed on you by an objective reality. I don't.Babies getting their heads cut off is not a fact-in-the-world? (Gopal?) A parent accidentally forgetting their child is in a hot car, and dying, is the same as a terrorist cutting a baby's head off? I don't think so. Why is that an unfair question? It is either true, or isn't. Israel would not lie about something that could be verified. (andrew, sorry) You didn't answer. Is your view theoretical, or does your memory extend to past lives? You don't understand what I write. On the other hand, I have no intention to convince you of anything. Your premise is wrong, and it is detrimental to you because that causes you negative emotions that you can't tend to, and that escalate materializing eventually into nightmarish scenarios. I have no inclination to keep repeating what I wrote, nor to engage in arguing. I perceive reality as being fundamentally different than you apparently do.
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Post by laughter on Oct 11, 2023 14:39:49 GMT -5
Based on random behavior ... I get you. What?
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Post by inavalan on Oct 11, 2023 14:41:13 GMT -5
It depends on what you interpret the LOA to mean. I don't use this term as part of my view of reality, but it points to elements of it. You can interpret reality only from your perspective, level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. What you see isn't exactly what it is, but a materialization of an inner reality, and this materialization is only yours; it isn't identical with anybody else's. There is no objective reference. At inner level you use inner senses, so the events and experiences are multi-dimensional, and are something else than what you perceive physically. Nobody dies in terms of destruction and annihilation. When you wake up, or go to sleep you just change focus; same when being born, or dying. You are immersed, hypnotized in some of these states, part by choice, part by mistake. In any state your experience is determined only by your level of evolvement, beliefs, expectations, emotions. This is what LOA actually points to; not what most people believe to be. Nothing is imposed on you, nor from the physical world, nor from the inner world. Nobody to blame, nor to forgive, nor to put on a pedestal. Let's call a baby one who cannot walk. How is a baby getting its head cut off, not having this imposed upon him or her? You're stuck with an incorrect interpretation of reality. Nobody does anything to you. You don't do anything to anybody. The you that you experience as alive and awake is a role you're playing. You're immersed in it, hypnotized and don't realize it. What you experience is like in a dream, or like when playing a videogame. This you is the avatar, dream-character, game-character. Same with all the others, and everything. What a physical-reality avatar does and experiences isn't a reflection of its role in the physical reality, but of his inner-reality player's level of evolvement, and what results from it. Put aside everything you believe and expect, and tap your intuition, if you can't directly tap your inner source of knowledge and guidance.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 11, 2023 14:57:33 GMT -5
Babies getting their heads cut off is not a fact-in-the-world? (Gopal?) A parent accidentally forgetting their child is in a hot car, and dying, is the same as a terrorist cutting a baby's head off? I don't think so. Why is that an unfair question? It is either true, or isn't. Israel would not lie about something that could be verified. (andrew, sorry) You didn't answer. Is your view theoretical, or does your memory extend to past lives? You don't understand what I write. On the other hand, I have no intention to convince you of anything. Your premise is wrong, and it is detrimental to you because that causes you negative emotions that you can't tend to, and that escalate materializing eventually into nightmarish scenarios. I have no inclination to keep repeating what I wrote, nor to engage in arguing. I perceive reality as being fundamentally different than you apparently do. No, I am interested. I just don't see anything except a conceptual house of cards. Show me something besides theory.
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