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Post by tenka on Sept 29, 2023 13:42:12 GMT -5
That meta-study results make sense. Fasting causes fat storage, and lowers metabolism hence weakens body when deprived of fuel. Calories are ... calories (energy). This reminds of a recent post that used the formulation "historical geopolitical hallucinations", which inherently yield undesired and often painful results. is virtually impossible (I hate to make absolute statements), but. It's like saying screwing causes chastity. I didn't look at the meta-study. I dare say on some website fasting causes fat storage . On another it will be the opposite .. I hear that fasting can create healing and repair .. It gives the body more energy to work on other areas other than trying to work through a shit load of food. I don't know about other's who fast for 16 hrs or so .. I don't feel lethargic or tired for doing so .. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 29, 2023 13:50:49 GMT -5
That meta-study results make sense. Fasting causes fat storage, and lowers metabolism hence weakens body when deprived of fuel. Calories are ... calories (energy). This reminds of a recent post that used the formulation "historical geopolitical hallucinations", which inherently yield undesired and often painful results. is virtually impossible (I hate to make absolute statements), but. It's like saying screwing causes chastity. I didn't look at the meta-study. was my comment. Planing and undertaking fasting give a message of upcoming scarcity to the body, so it prepares for that by storing energy in fat, and by lowering the metabolism. The body can't continuously function without continuously having energy to burn, so it needs energy storage, fat. The body is a gestalt of consciousness. This fasting trend is a fad, resulting from the misunderstanding of reality, and the attempt to bypass the individual control over the lack of will. The meta-study concluded that fasting affects weight-loss only when it reduces the calorie intake. Eating much in a short period of time puts an additional burden on the body due the heavier digestion too. Again, loosing weight is simple. You need the will to eat less. Focusing on being healthy is a better way than focusing on the weight-loss. If you are healthy your weight is normal, not the other way around. Focus on being healthy, not on "not to be unhealthy anymore". You bring in your reality what you focus on. I posted the graph of my weight-loss, and how I did it. I maintained it for 20+ years. I also explained why I was successful in "reality" terms You seem to be attracted by complicated explanations, and those set you up for failing: they make you believe that it is hard to achieve it, so it becomes hard for you to achieve it. I wanted to end my post on a positive, encouraging note with a "good luck!", but that wish is misleading as there is no luck involved. Nothing is by chance or lack of. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 29, 2023 15:06:34 GMT -5
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2023 18:23:48 GMT -5
From Why We Get Sick by Benjamin Bikman, PhD, 2020. First:
The research I rely on in this book has been preformed and published by hundreds of different labs and hospitals all over the world that have studied this issue for a century. As an author and scientist, I find the history of evidence liberating - nothing I write in this book is based on my opinion, but rather published, peer-reviewed science.
My main goal is to demystify the science of insulin resistance , so that anyone can appreciate what it is and why it's dangerous.
Insulin resistance is the most common health disorder worldwide, and it affects more people - adults and children - each year than any other.
While my graduate studies began scratching at the surface of the origins of insulin resistance, I was still completely naive as to how insulin resistance, in turn, causes other diseases. ...I was dumbfounded when I found out countless scientific manuscripts highlighting the many different ways in which insulin resistance directly caused high blood pressure, high cholesterol, arterial plaques, and more. The link was more than tangible! ...I learned (insulin resistance) was present in almost every chronic disease.
Insulin resistance is the epidemic you may have never heard of. ...The overwhelming majority of people with insulin resistance don't know they have it and have never even heard of it!
When we eat food that increases blood glucose, the pancreas releases insulin, which the "opens the doors" to escort glucose from the blood to various parts of the body, such as the brain, heart, muscles, and fat tissue. ...insulin has a effect on every cell in every tissue of the body. ...The problem is when insulin isn't working correctly, a state defined as insulin resistance.
When a cell stops responding to insulin, it becomes insulin resistant. In that state cells need more than normal amounts of insulin to get the same response as before. Thus, the key feature of insulin resistance is that blood levels of insulin are higher than they used to be, and the insulin often doesn't work as well.
Because sustained high glucose levels are dangerous, even potentially lethal, our bodies need insulin to usher the glucose from the blood, effectively lowering blood glucose back to normal. As insulin resistance settles in, this process becomes compromised, which can lead to high blood glucose levels, the universal sign of diabetes....insulin resistance can be present long before a person develops type 2 diabetes (up to 20 years, read that just yesterday).
...with insulin resistance, insulin levels are higher than expected relative to glucose. [OK, here is where most doctors screw up, note sdp]. In the "story" of insulin resistance and diabetes, we've been treating glucose as the main character, but it's really the sidekick. That is, glucose is the typical blood marker we use to diagnose and monitor diabetes, but we should really be paying attention to insulin levels first. unquote
That's a start. Most doctors don't check insulin levels (they think they are indirectly checking insulin by checking fasting blood glucose, it doesn't work that way). For up to 20 years the body will just increase insulin to get rid of the extra glucose in the blood. But this doesn't work forever, eventually insulin resistance shows up as high levels of glucose in the blood, high blood sugar. And then doctors just prescribe an insulin-type med. This doesn't fix the problem. And when blood sugar increases still more, they increase the meds more. This is where my sister was 2 & 1/2 years ago, when I told her that her doctor is telling her to do the opposite of what she needs to do. And now her doctor wants to up her diabetes meds again. And now she has cholesterol high enough her doctor put her on statins a week ago. I quoted her out of the book, statins make insulin resistance worse. On page 22, I quoted to her, insulin resistance causes high cholesterol. And it increases inflammation.
The book by Richard K Bernstein MD, Diabetes Solutions, mentioned previously, started putting all this together for me about 4 years ago. Bikman and the video lady are directly in line with him. Why I got the Bikman book, he found insulin resistance is involved in most chronic diseases, quoted above. Blood pressure is another issue for me.
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2023 18:25:21 GMT -5
Yeah I'm not a nutrition expert at all, just try and eat intuitively and decently. I love a donut and don't deny myself the unhealthy stuff. Yeah, it's the basics in the UK that were still cheap 3 months ago....the sardines, tuna, beans, porridge oats, hummous. Bran Flakes from Aldi in UK are about 70p. Here more like $2.50...in Aldi! What's interesting is the way my conditioning is shifting though. I notice in certain ways how my brain is slowly becoming American 😳😁 When you come back to the UK you are going to be weighing 400lbs and speak with an American accent  How long are you planning on staying for? I don't know, it depends on a bunch of stuff, and some of that stuff I don't even know what it is haha. It boils down to guidance and flow in the end. I've noticed I now drive more like an American driver now. What's interesting is that occasionally I will watch something on television that reminds me of Britain, and when I get in the car, I notice my thought structures are 'British' and briefly I drive like a British driver (in the early days I'd drive on the wrong side of the road...yikes!). And then I can feel my brain 'switching over' to new conditioning, and I become an American driver again. Food is another example of that, I can sometimes tangibly observe thought structures flipping from British to American, and I do actually eat a bit more here than I do in the UK. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2023 18:29:27 GMT -5
About 4 years ago my mother made an egg custard pie. I was in the den and heard a crash, she had just taken it out of the oven and dropped it on the floor. When I got to the kitchen (about ten feet) she already had a broom and dust pan in her hands. I, just to stop her, instinctively it popped out: What are you doing! She said I'm gong to clean my mess up. I said, no you're not. I scooped the whole thing up, and ate almost all of it right then. (She was compulsively a cleaner, so I knew the floor was clean). Egg custard virtually = pudding. She made a good banana pudding also, I always asked her to put in extra vanilla wafers. Best eaten before the vanilla wafers get too soggy. Incidentally, growing up we always had a snack a couple of hours after dinner (supper), before bedtime. After she died, so I never got to ask her, I figured out the why. She was born in 1930 so grew up during the depression. My Grandpa was a farmer, so I know they always had food, but I later realized she maybe went to bed hungry. So she never wanted us hungry. OK, memories are coming. Ever heard of stickies? My favorite desert as a kid. Already mentioned, but to andrew, I like sweets. But I accidentally discovered eliminating sweets-sugar eliminated my acid reflux-heartburn, completely (that's a minor miracle). I'll take that trade any day. (On rare occasions I do eat sweets). I wouldn't have thrown that pie away either lol. I used to have heartburn issues sometimes, not pleasant, I don't know why it stopped, but it did. I can understand the trade off. There's a show I like called 'Alone', maybe you've seen it. It's a survival show in the wild. In the last series I saw, they were all struggling with hunger as per normal, but one of the guys decided to fast, instead of eating a small amount (which all the others were doing). He said the body would adjust faster and better to 'no food', than to a small amount of food. I think he fasted for a couple of weeks if I remember right. And he won. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2023 18:41:20 GMT -5
About 4 years ago my mother made an egg custard pie. I was in the den and heard a crash, she had just taken it out of the oven and dropped it on the floor. When I got to the kitchen (about ten feet) she already had a broom and dust pan in her hands. I, just to stop her, instinctively it popped out: What are you doing! She said I'm gong to clean my mess up. I said, no you're not. I scooped the whole thing up, and ate almost all of it right then. (She was compulsively a cleaner, so I knew the floor was clean). Egg custard virtually = pudding. She made a good banana pudding also, I always asked her to put in extra vanilla wafers. Best eaten before the vanilla wafers get too soggy. Incidentally, growing up we always had a snack a couple of hours after dinner (supper), before bedtime. After she died, so I never got to ask her, I figured out the why. She was born in 1930 so grew up during the depression. My Grandpa was a farmer, so I know they always had food, but I later realized she maybe went to bed hungry. So she never wanted us hungry. OK, memories are coming. Ever heard of stickies? My favorite desert as a kid. Already mentioned, but to andrew, I like sweets. But I accidentally discovered eliminating sweets-sugar eliminated my acid reflux-heartburn, completely (that's a minor miracle). I'll take that trade any day. (On rare occasions I do eat sweets). I wouldn't have thrown that pie away either lol. I used to have heartburn issues sometimes, not pleasant, I don't know why it stopped, but it did. I can understand the trade off. There's a show I like called 'Alone', maybe you've seen it. It's a survival show in the wild. In the last series I saw, they were all struggling with hunger as per normal, but one of the guys decided to fast, instead of eating a small amount (which all the others were doing). He said the body would adjust faster and better to 'no food', than to a small amount of food. I think he fasted for a couple of weeks if I remember right. And he won. Yes, I've seen Alone, but I'm not a regular watcher. I think I saw a good many episodes of that season. Yes, he made the calculation, do I use up my calories trying to find food I may not find, or do I just fast and preserve the calories I have. He made the right decision. ...For some reason I have to be in a certain mood to watch Alone. Yea, it's the real Survival. The very first Survival program 20 years ago showed it wasn't about survival, but about political-social survival. And the next season, because they figured that out, they made more food available, a minimum of rice. (I've hardly watched that program for at least ten years). |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 29, 2023 18:54:37 GMT -5
Cellular membrane loss of permeability is the cause of all degenerative diseases. As far as I know, the only proven way to substantially reverse that loss of permeability is by taking fish oil. I take one tablespoon of fish oil daily, preventively.
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2023 19:36:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't have thrown that pie away either lol. I used to have heartburn issues sometimes, not pleasant, I don't know why it stopped, but it did. I can understand the trade off. There's a show I like called 'Alone', maybe you've seen it. It's a survival show in the wild. In the last series I saw, they were all struggling with hunger as per normal, but one of the guys decided to fast, instead of eating a small amount (which all the others were doing). He said the body would adjust faster and better to 'no food', than to a small amount of food. I think he fasted for a couple of weeks if I remember right. And he won. Yes, I've seen Alone, but I'm not a regular watcher. I think I saw a good many episodes of that season. Yes, he made the calculation, do I use up my calories trying to find food I may not find, or do I just fast and preserve the calories I have. He made the right decision. ...For some reason I have to be in a certain mood to watch Alone. Yea, it's the real Survival. The very first Survival program 20 years ago showed it wasn't about survival, but about political-social survival. And the next season, because they figured that out, they made more food available, a minimum of rice. (I've hardly watched that program for at least ten years). Yes, I know the Survivor show you mean, it's not one I watch either. 'Alone' appeals to me because it often carries a spiritual vibe, many of the contestants have deep connection with nature, offer gratitude etc. Plus, 'reality shows' are really the only shows that me and Jenn watch together, so we watch a few. 'Love Is Blind' is one we like because it relates to our situation...we fell in love before seeing each other (not even a photo). 'Traitors' is a fun psychological show too 0there's one American season of 'Traitors', some of the characters are very amusing) |
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2023 19:37:17 GMT -5
Cellular membrane loss of permeability is the cause of all degenerative diseases. As far as I know, the only proven way to substantially reverse that loss of permeability is by taking fish oil. I take one tablespoon of fish oil daily, preventively. I've read coconut oil is good for dementia illnesses too. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 29, 2023 19:41:39 GMT -5
This guy does the best research reviews. He's not a good nutritionist, but he nails the science. /watch?v=pyuyakz6leo That meta-study results make sense. Fasting causes fat storage, and lowers metabolism hence weakens body when deprived of fuel. Calories are ... calories (energy). This reminds of a recent post that used the formulation "historical geopolitical hallucinations", which inherently yield undesired and often painful results. It makes sense that fasting increases weight lost in muscle mass because to keep protein synthesis high frequent hits of protein are best, and that effect is born out in the research, but isn't really significant for standard IF. Fasting probably reduces non-exercise activity, so slightly fewer calories are burned, which just means you eat a tiny bit less and it's fine.
The 'hormone gurus' would say your meal timing is the worst because insulin, but that's nonsense. High frequency of meals/snacks is most appropriate for people who don't like eating a lot and prefer small meals (or very big people who need thousands of cals a day). People who like big meals can eat less frequently.
From a protein perspective we know that muscle mass is best preserved or accrues by about 30-40 grams of protein at a time, and irt seems to be independent of bodyweight. It's because it takes 3g of leucine to optimally activate mTOR which stimulates muscle protein synthesis. From that approach a bigger person would eat more frequently to optimise muscle synthesis whereas a smaller person would eat less frequently to remain within their calorie allotment.
There's a few reasons where meal timing is a in the overall scheme of things consideration... but it's not a priority, so whatever best suits the individual is fine.
That's all a scientific viewpoint, but humans are subjective and emotional, so we tend to just look at their current eating habits (usually intertwined with family and cultural norms) and look at removing/replacing/reducing calorie dense food (like ZD and nuts). I find protein is usually a bit low for optimal muscle retention, so switching say rice for lentils or something could be an idea. Most people will not weigh portions, count calories and track portions, so we know the science in numbers and weights but we practice it withing a subjective array of preferences, emotions, relationships, cultures social lives and just about every aspect of an individual's life. We don't tell people they have to IF about insulin and so forth because most people can't sustain that regimen. Ifthey can they it's perfectly viable, but thay is a very small percentage of people.
What works is actually very diverse, and therefore very flexible, because on the physiological level it's ultimately just a numbers game and there's a million ways to arrive at the same result.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2023 22:14:49 GMT -5
Can you give me a short tutorial how how hormones work in the body, especially insulin, the importance.
ChatGPT
Certainly! Hormones play a crucial role in regulating various functions in the human body, and insulin is one of the most important hormones when it comes to controlling blood sugar levels. Here's a short tutorial on how hormones work, with a focus on insulin:
What Are Hormones?
Hormones are chemical messengers produced by specialized glands in the endocrine system. They travel through the bloodstream to target cells or organs, where they elicit specific responses. These responses help regulate various physiological processes, such as metabolism, growth, and reproduction.
Insulin and Its Importance:
Insulin is a hormone produced by the pancreas, specifically in clusters of cells called the Islets of Langerhans. It plays a central role in regulating blood sugar (glucose) levels in the body. Here's how it works:
1. Glucose Regulation:
When you eat carbohydrates, your digestive system breaks them down into glucose, which enters your bloodstream.
Elevated blood glucose levels trigger the release of insulin from the pancreas.
2. Cellular Uptake:
Insulin acts like a key that allows glucose to enter cells, primarily muscle and fat cells.
Inside the cells, glucose is used for energy or stored as glycogen (a form of stored glucose) in the liver and muscles.
3. Lowering Blood Sugar:
By facilitating the uptake of glucose into cells, insulin reduces the concentration of glucose in the bloodstream.
This helps maintain blood sugar within a narrow, healthy range.
4. Importance of Blood Sugar Control:
Consistently high blood sugar levels can lead to diabetes and various health complications, including heart disease, kidney damage, and nerve problems.
Consistently low blood sugar levels can also be dangerous, causing symptoms like weakness, confusion, and, in severe cases, unconsciousness.
Regulation of Insulin:
Insulin secretion is tightly regulated by a negative feedback system:
When blood sugar rises after a meal, the pancreas releases insulin to bring glucose levels down.
As blood sugar levels drop, insulin production decreases to prevent hypoglycemia (low blood sugar).
Conclusion:
Insulin is a vital hormone that helps regulate blood sugar levels in the body. Maintaining proper blood sugar control is essential for overall health, as imbalances can lead to serious health problems. Individuals with diabetes may have difficulty producing or responding to insulin, requiring medication or lifestyle changes to manage their condition.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2023 22:21:33 GMT -5
User
Can you explain what insulin resistance is? Can you explain how to become insulin sensitive again, after becoming insulin resistant?
ChatGPT
Certainly! Insulin resistance is a condition in which the body's cells become less responsive to the effects of insulin. As a result, more insulin is needed to help glucose enter cells, leading to higher levels of insulin in the bloodstream. This can ultimately result in elevated blood sugar levels and is a common underlying factor in type 2 diabetes.
Here's an explanation of insulin resistance and how to become insulin sensitive again:
Causes of Insulin Resistance:
Several factors can contribute to insulin resistance, including:
Genetics: Some people have a genetic predisposition to insulin resistance.
Obesity: Excess body fat, especially abdominal fat, is strongly associated with insulin resistance.
Physical Inactivity: Lack of regular physical activity can reduce insulin sensitivity.
Poor Diet: Diets high in processed foods, sugar, and unhealthy fats can contribute to insulin resistance.
Chronic Inflammation: Conditions like chronic inflammation can impair insulin sensitivity.
How to Become Insulin Sensitive Again:
Healthy Diet:
Focus on a balanced diet rich in whole foods, including vegetables, fruits, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats.
Limit sugar and refined carbohydrates, as they can cause rapid spikes in blood sugar.
Regular Exercise:
Engage in regular physical activity, including both aerobic exercise (like walking, jogging, or cycling) and strength training.
Exercise helps muscles use glucose more effectively and improves insulin sensitivity.
Weight Management:
If overweight or obese, losing weight can significantly improve insulin sensitivity.
Even a modest weight loss can have a positive impact.
Reduce Stress:
Chronic stress can contribute to insulin resistance. Practice stress-reduction techniques like meditation, deep breathing, or yoga.
Adequate Sleep:
Aim for 7-9 hours of quality sleep per night, as insufficient sleep can worsen insulin resistance.
Limit Alcohol Intake:
Excessive alcohol consumption can affect blood sugar control. Limit your alcohol intake or avoid it altogether.
Medication (if prescribed):
In some cases, healthcare providers may prescribe medications to help improve insulin sensitivity, especially if lifestyle changes are not enough.
Regular Monitoring:
If you have insulin resistance or prediabetes, work closely with your healthcare team to monitor your blood sugar levels and make necessary adjustments.
Conclusion:
Insulin resistance is a condition where the body's cells do not respond effectively to insulin, leading to elevated blood sugar levels. However, it's often manageable and reversible through lifestyle changes such as adopting a healthy diet, engaging in regular exercise, maintaining a healthy weight, and managing stress. These steps can help improve insulin sensitivity and reduce the risk of developing type 2 diabetes. If you suspect you have insulin resistance, it's essential to consult with a healthcare professional for guidance and personalized recommendations.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2023 22:28:54 GMT -5
If you don't think hormones are important, Type 1 diabetes is when the pancreas does not make insulin, period. Type 1 you either have it or you don't.
Type 2 diabetes comes from a bad diet, bad eating habits. It's preventable and reversible, with the proper facts. Sometimes that means getting a different doctor, who is up on current new information.
Tomorrow (that means goodnight) I will give Bikman's questions to determine if you have insulin resistance. Unless your doctor checks your blood insulin levels, you will not know. (Most) doctors don't think you have a problem until you have high blood glucose levels after an 8 hour fast. IOW, most doctors will not know you have a problem. Bikman, again, says you can have insulin resistance for 20 years, before it shows up as high blood glucose levels. IOW, you have to learn to doctor yourself. IOW, you won't know how to find a good doctor without the proper information, the right questions to ask.
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Post by lolly on Sept 30, 2023 2:17:46 GMT -5
If you don't think hormones are important, Type 1 diabetes is when the pancreas does not make insulin, period. Type 1 you either have it or you don't. Type 2 diabetes comes from a bad diet, bad eating habits. It's preventable and reversible, with the proper facts. Sometimes that means getting a different doctor, who is up on current new information. Tomorrow (that means goodnight) I will give Bikman's questions to determine if you have insulin resistance. Unless your doctor checks your blood insulin levels, you will not know. (Most) doctors don't think you have a problem until you have high blood glucose levels after an 8 hour fast. IOW, most doctors will not know you have a problem. Bikman, again, says you can have insulin resistance for 20 years, before it shows up as high blood glucose levels. IOW, you have to learn to doctor yourself. IOW, you won't know how to find a good doctor without the proper information, the right questions to ask. It's not that it's unimportant per-se, but it's kinda like we don't lose weight if we don't exhale. Exhaling is critical, but it doesn't effect the ways in which we approach nutrition. Hencewhy Chat reiterates everything I say though at a more simplistic level.
People with insulin resistance, diabetes T1 or T2 or medical condition that needs a specialised diet should consult a qualified dietician who specialises in that specific disease. Medical doctors will advise, but they aren't qualified and are pretty likely to lead you down a medicalised route or be quacks such as Fung (there's along list). Certainly not a chiropractor or a freak of 'alternative medicine'. Unfortunately, the former ilks dominate the narrative and qualified information goes unheard, and the general populace is thereby misguided on the whole.
It makes no difference when people who understand things (not just me) speak the reality because nutrition is about the most irrational, emotional, cultish and therefore deluded discourse around, but on this thread I notice a lot of good sense and I'd go along with the general gist of what people say.
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