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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 3:06:22 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness.
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Post by andrew on Jan 24, 2023 6:49:28 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness. I like this. The difficulty, or the challenge is, that we are immersed in a context...a reality...in which we are compelled to hold false beliefs to some extent. You work for a business, right? Well, ultimately the idea of a 'business' is false, because in business, there are winners and losers. It's competitive. Concepts like 'business' and 'capital' and 'profit' and 'economy' and 'money' are all born out of the false belief in lack. Every time we buy something from a shop, we are engaged with the belief that there's 'not enough'. Because if there was a collective belief that there IS enough....there'd be no competition. To be clear I am NOT a communist because governments telling us what to do is also totally unnatural. Communism is a manifestation of the want for control. If I had to choose, I'd go with competitive business over communism. But I guess like me, you pay attention to the laws of your land. You pay attention to what Mommy and Daddy government want you to do, right? I'm not judging you to be clear, I carry false beliefs too. And these false beliefs will always show up as irritation or annoyance. Another example, I trade forex online and am currently chasing an inefficient broker. For about a month. It's been annoying. The context demands that I chase the broker, there is annoyance, and I am a bit annoyed about the annoyance  I have inner ways of dealing with this, shifting energies around it etc, but still, these things happen. So my question is Gopal, what do we do about this? For us, there is no 100% 'automatic'. So what's the plan? How do we be totally aligned to the automatic nature of God? I'd argue that even someone like Eckhart Tolle, who seems to express Peace immensely, still has an internal strategy for dealing with challenging situations. Perhaps accepting that it is God's automatic nature for false beliefs to happen in life? And that annoyance can happen in life? |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 24, 2023 8:57:45 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness. Then wouldn't it be Gods nature fighting against Gods nature? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 9:01:49 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness. I like this. The difficulty, or the challenge is, that we are immersed in a context...a reality...in which we are compelled to hold false beliefs to some extent. You work for a business, right? Well, ultimately the idea of a 'business' is false, because in business, there are winners and losers. It's competitive. Concepts like 'business' and 'capital' and 'profit' and 'economy' and 'money' are all born out of the false belief in lack. Every time we buy something from a shop, we are engaged with the belief that there's 'not enough'. Because if there was a collective belief that there IS enough....there'd be no competition. To be clear I am NOT a communist because governments telling us what to do is also totally unnatural. Communism is a manifestation of the want for control. If I had to choose, I'd go with competitive business over communism. But I guess like me, you pay attention to the laws of your land. You pay attention to what Mommy and Daddy government want you to do, right? I'm not judging you to be clear, I carry false beliefs too. And these false beliefs will always show up as irritation or annoyance. Another example, I trade forex online and am currently chasing an inefficient broker. For about a month. It's been annoying. The context demands that I chase the broker, there is annoyance, and I am a bit annoyed about the annoyance I have inner ways of dealing with this, shifting energies around it etc, but still, these things happen. So my question is Gopal, what do we do about this? For us, there is no 100% 'automatic'. So what's the plan? How do we be totally aligned to the automatic nature of God? I'd argue that even someone like Eckhart Tolle, who seems to express Peace immensely, still has an internal strategy for dealing with challenging situations. Perhaps accepting that it is God's automatic nature for false beliefs to happen in life? And that annoyance can happen in life? I find problem with this shifting energies, the one who shift energy is the creative force itself. So It somehow believes that it can be solved by shifting the energies, so that belief keeps repeating. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 9:05:25 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness. Then wouldn't it be Gods nature fighting against Gods nature?Yes! The source of our perception and thoughts, regardless of what we would like to change, reinforces our beliefs and ideas. If an idea is present, it will also generate its opposite, and if a belief is strongly ingrained, it will continue to shape our beliefs. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 24, 2023 10:36:08 GMT -5
I like this. The difficulty, or the challenge is, that we are immersed in a context...a reality...in which we are compelled to hold false beliefs to some extent. You work for a business, right? Well, ultimately the idea of a 'business' is false, because in business, there are winners and losers. It's competitive. Concepts like 'business' and 'capital' and 'profit' and 'economy' and 'money' are all born out of the false belief in lack. Every time we buy something from a shop, we are engaged with the belief that there's 'not enough'. Because if there was a collective belief that there IS enough....there'd be no competition. To be clear I am NOT a communist because governments telling us what to do is also totally unnatural. Communism is a manifestation of the want for control. If I had to choose, I'd go with competitive business over communism. But I guess like me, you pay attention to the laws of your land. You pay attention to what Mommy and Daddy government want you to do, right? I'm not judging you to be clear, I carry false beliefs too. And these false beliefs will always show up as irritation or annoyance. Another example, I trade forex online and am currently chasing an inefficient broker. For about a month. It's been annoying. The context demands that I chase the broker, there is annoyance, and I am a bit annoyed about the annoyance I have inner ways of dealing with this, shifting energies around it etc, but still, these things happen. So my question is Gopal, what do we do about this? For us, there is no 100% 'automatic'. So what's the plan? How do we be totally aligned to the automatic nature of God? I'd argue that even someone like Eckhart Tolle, who seems to express Peace immensely, still has an internal strategy for dealing with challenging situations. Perhaps accepting that it is God's automatic nature for false beliefs to happen in life? And that annoyance can happen in life? I find problem with this shifting energies, the one who shift energy is the creative force itself. So It somehow believes that it can be solved by shifting the energies, so that belief keeps repeating. I understand, but my view is we have to do something. We are compelled to act, the moment we are 'fighting God's automatic nature'. Ideally perhaps, we change the belief, but that's easier said than done, sometimes a context won't allow that, and then we are adding more layers of struggle. Perhaps we could agree that the goal is always to reduce conflict. I don't think there is a 'one size fits all solution' to that though. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2023 6:59:29 GMT -5
Then wouldn't it be Gods nature fighting against Gods nature?Yes! The source of our perception and thoughts, regardless of what we would like to change, reinforces our beliefs and ideas. If an idea is present, it will also generate its opposite, and if a belief is strongly ingrained, it will continue to shape our beliefs. Find out what's left in the absence of any and all belief and you'll lose interest in all of these philosophical ideas. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2023 7:00:48 GMT -5
When we place blame on others and express anger, it may seem like we are in conflict with others. However, upon closer examination, we may realize that our true struggle is not with people, but with the automatic nature of God. He keeps creating your idea and belief, particularly something you thought was true. He doesn't care if you want it or not because it's the natural state of our creative part of consciousness. Then wouldn't it be Gods nature fighting against Gods nature? A Catholic who put together some material for their adult education program once wrote .. "don't settle for the God of your imagination". |
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2023 7:03:21 GMT -5
I find problem with this shifting energies, the one who shift energy is the creative force itself. So It somehow believes that it can be solved by shifting the energies, so that belief keeps repeating. I understand, but my view is we have to do something. We are compelled to act, the moment we are 'fighting God's automatic nature'. Ideally perhaps, we change the belief, but that's easier said than done, sometimes a context won't allow that, and then we are adding more layers of struggle. Perhaps we could agree that the goal is always to reduce conflict. I don't think there is a 'one size fits all solution' to that though. People feel as if they're compelled to act, and the mind - intellect + emotion - will always make it so for any given people-peep. But you see, that's not really WIBIGO.  It just seems like WIBIGO to the people-peep. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2023 8:08:44 GMT -5
I understand, but my view is we have to do something. We are compelled to act, the moment we are 'fighting God's automatic nature'. Ideally perhaps, we change the belief, but that's easier said than done, sometimes a context won't allow that, and then we are adding more layers of struggle. Perhaps we could agree that the goal is always to reduce conflict. I don't think there is a 'one size fits all solution' to that though. People feel as if they're compelled to act, and the mind - intellect + emotion - will always make it so for any given people-peep. But you see, that's not really WIBIGO. It just seems like WIBIGO to the people-peep. yes, in the broadest sense, it can be understood to all be appearances appearing (I think that's what you are saying?), but I interpret a lot of Gopal's interest to be about what people-peeps are 'doing'....so that's what I respond to (I guess I share Gopal's interest in that) In that same broadest sense, even the struggle, the resistance, the ego...would all have to be 'God's automatic nature', but what I see Gopal exploring is the relative sense of that idea. He's exploring what it means to be in a state that is totally absent any struggle, any resistance, any ego....thus free of any annoyance, irritation etc. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 25, 2023 8:26:30 GMT -5
People feel as if they're compelled to act, and the mind - intellect + emotion - will always make it so for any given people-peep. But you see, that's not really WIBIGO. It just seems like WIBIGO to the people-peep. yes, in the broadest sense, it can be understood to all be appearances appearing (I think that's what you are saying?), but I interpret a lot of Gopal's interest to be about what people-peeps are 'doing'....so that's what I respond to (I guess I share Gopal's interest in that) In that same broadest sense, even the struggle, the resistance, the ego...would all have to be 'God's automatic nature', but what I see Gopal exploring is the relative sense of that idea. He's exploring what it means to be in a state that is totally absent any struggle, any resistance, any ego....thus free of any annoyance, irritation etc. "It's all appearances appearing" is one way to describe the realization of emptiness, but realizing emptiness is only half circle, after all. One Zen aphorism that address this is "chop wood, carry water". One who has realized emptiness will not feel as if they or anyone else is "compelled to act", but the pop-spirituality term "spiritual bypassing" is a comment on where that can lead. Of course, I'm writing in generalities and abstractions, which is what it is. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 25, 2023 14:23:38 GMT -5
Then wouldn't it be Gods nature fighting against Gods nature? A Catholic who put together some material for their adult education program once wrote .. "don't settle for the God of your imagination". Sure. The way I see it, there's no God anyway. Only divinity, which is the substratum of our being and therefore imbues all creation. And not only is it possible to become intimately familiar with that, but in the end nothing short of that will suffice. But I'm happy to engage folks within the paradigm. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5
yes, in the broadest sense, it can be understood to all be appearances appearing (I think that's what you are saying?), but I interpret a lot of Gopal's interest to be about what people-peeps are 'doing'....so that's what I respond to (I guess I share Gopal's interest in that) In that same broadest sense, even the struggle, the resistance, the ego...would all have to be 'God's automatic nature', but what I see Gopal exploring is the relative sense of that idea. He's exploring what it means to be in a state that is totally absent any struggle, any resistance, any ego....thus free of any annoyance, irritation etc. "It's all appearances appearing" is one way to describe the realization of emptiness, but realizing emptiness is only half circle, after all. One Zen aphorism that address this is "chop wood, carry water". One who has realized emptiness will not feel as if they or anyone else is "compelled to act", but the pop-spirituality term "spiritual bypassing" is a comment on where that can lead. Of course, I'm writing in generalities and abstractions, which is what it is. Sure, being compelled to act definitely doesn't have to come with the sense of feeling compelled to act. Taking an extreme example, of holding a finger to a hot stove, it's very unlikely one would 'feel' compelled to move their finger from it, they will just move it! Similarly, when there is physical or emotional discomfort, one will instinctively act on that in some way, shape or form. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 6:21:41 GMT -5
I find problem with this shifting energies, the one who shift energy is the creative force itself. So It somehow believes that it can be solved by shifting the energies, so that belief keeps repeating. I understand, but my view is we have to do something. We are compelled to act, the moment we are 'fighting God's automatic nature'. Ideally perhaps, we change the belief, but that's easier said than done, sometimes a context won't allow that, and then we are adding more layers of struggle. Perhaps we could agree that the goal is always to reduce conflict. I don't think there is a 'one size fits all solution' to that though. When we are faced with a situation that requires action, it is important that we take action, otherwise we will be faced with another problem. Inaction when action is required is another problem in itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 6:23:57 GMT -5
Yes! The source of our perception and thoughts, regardless of what we would like to change, reinforces our beliefs and ideas. If an idea is present, it will also generate its opposite, and if a belief is strongly ingrained, it will continue to shape our beliefs. Find out what's left in the absence of any and all belief and you'll lose interest in all of these philosophical ideas. |
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It just seems like WIBIGO to the people-peep.