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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 31, 2022 17:43:26 GMT -5
Read my longer reply to ZD above. Just briefly. We are born as essence, our true self. As soon as the baby is born, incoming information is stored in our neural structure, and network of connecting neurons, thousands and thousands of connections. The average person has more neural connections than there are stars in the universe (that's about 100,000,000,000 x 100,000,000,000), so wes is complicated. By about age six, these form what we refer to as self. But it is a false self, an imaginary self, our true self, essence, is buried underneath. So this so-called SVP can only operate from its own programming, it can never get beyond its programming, this is like trying to jump over your own knees. But it is possible to once again live through one's essence (to once again be-essence). Now, from what you say (overall), it seems inavalan has recovered essence and lives through essence. But sdp can't say for sure. I'm petty sure ZD lives through essence, about 99.999% sure. But he accepts ~where he is now~, to be the end of the journey. It's not, I'm sure it's not. As far as I can tell, most everybody else here is a ~mixture~ of essence and small s self (the so-called SVP). Some "less confident", here, probably are more-in essence. inavalan is way out over the edge from most everybody else here. sdp can't discern if that is indeed true, or if it's all just an elaborate ~mind-map~ (an abstraction). The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So you can know, but I can't know that you know. Just to be clear, from my POV there is no "end to the journey" because how THIS will unfold is unknowable. THIS is infinite and beyond concept (including the concept of a beginning or an end). If one discovers that there are no boundaries (except in imagination) and that all thoughts about reality are imaginary, then THIS/the Unborn is the only thingless thing that is capable of contemplating its own isness, asking questions, finding answers, or doing anything else. What will THIS, manifesting as a human being, do next? It's like asking, "What thought will occur next?" Seeking usually comes to an end as soon as realizations occur that result in peace of mind, and that will vary from human to human. Some people have dozens of questions/issues that need to be resolved, and some people have very few. I go for a walk every day or so, and I carry along a pen and something to write on because while walking in silence thoughts will suddenly appear that suggest possible future courses of action. Today I was walking past a piece of property that I've thought about buying for improvement and resale. I hadn't pursued the issue because the property is rocky and might not have enough topsoil for a septic system for a 3 bedroom home. In the past I thought about making an offer and putting in a contingency that the property be approved by the environmental authorities. I would have to initiate a purchase contract, stake out a future home and driveway, and then pay the environmental office $1000 to get an inspector to determine if they would approve it for a 3 bedroom home. If they refused to approve it, I would exercise the contingency and lose $1000. Today, as I walked by the property, it suddenly dawned on me that I could pay a soil scientist $150 for an unofficial opinion that would give me a good sense of whether the property would be approved or not. A new idea right out of the subconscious! I can meet a soils guy at the property, describe the potential layout, and not have to stake anything out. He could punch a few holes in the ground, look at the soils, and give me an opinion. If negative, I'm only out $150. If positive, I make an offer, do the stakeout, pay $1000, and the odds for success would be worth the effort and risk. Gotta love how THIS comes up with new ideas!  Thanks for your reply ZD. I will probably get back to you, next year. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 1, 2023 0:29:18 GMT -5
"Man can do what he wants but cannot want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer : link:  |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 1, 2023 10:16:54 GMT -5
By seeing the world thru the eyes of Source. Then these questions will disappear because the answer is so utterly obvious. Happy New Year! (Mine is in 8 & 1/2 hours). Yea, I have no reference for that. And I don't put too much stock in words, or pixels on a computer screen. I only know attention and awareness, and where they lead, what the next step is. So this could be imagination on your part, or not, I can't know any different. You could be 100% truthful and accurate, but I can't know. I can only know my own consciousness (that word not to be taken lightly). I don't know if what you refer to as Source, is indeed Source. It's the same for me for everybody else here. Nothing personal, I just know how powerful imagination is. But this post is in relation to the reply to ZD, that is, continued. Let's just take the Sun for instance. There is an Intelligence that formed the Sun (or the something we refer to as the Sun). I know I am no-where-near touching that Intelligence, much less 'looking through those eyes'. Yes, I cannot make you see IT and you cannot make yourself see IT either. That's our situation. Wei Wu Wei compared this situation to looking from a higher dimension, i.e. the SR perspective would be the view from 4D on your 3D world, something that is unimaginable from your 3D perspective. And while that analogy does have a point in case, it's a bit misleading, because this is not about reaching a higher dimension. This is about penetrating the essence of everything, of All-That-Is. That's why we keep insisting that IT has to be seen with the eyes of the Infinite, not the physical eyes or the eyes of the mind. Here's a quote from WWW: Happy New Year to all! |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 1, 2023 10:25:51 GMT -5
The original quote is this: "Der Mensch kann zwar tun was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will." |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 1, 2023 16:29:28 GMT -5
The original quote is this: "Der Mensch kann zwar tun was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will." Schopenhauer's, or Einstein's quoting Schopenhauer (both native German speakers)? I thought that to be relevant information. The context (in that English translation, see the attachment), says a little more about what Schopenhauer meant. On the other hand, it doesn't matter what Schopenhauer intended to say, but what one infers from it intuitively. Isn't it?  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 1, 2023 17:21:52 GMT -5
'Get around' meaning what? I've been saying something similar for years, that you cannot choose your desires. I'm asking, how does change take place? We have thoughts, feelings, body-actions (and sensations). What we are it seems, is a strange loop. Our thoughts, feelings, bodily actions result from past thoughts, feelings, actions, and our thoughts, feelings, bodily actions plant the seeds for future "harvesting". We have a repeating cycle. If one cannot choose their desires, then are we doomed to be a repeating strange loop? How does one come to truth? How can one get beyond self? No, that's the illusion. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 1, 2023 17:45:26 GMT -5
Sorry. I don't understand that assertion. You seem to say, as per Schopenhauer's quote, that your ego's wish comes from somewhere else. What makes you say that? Where do your ego's wishes come from? From whom? I think that your ego wishes whatever it wants (a.k.a. free-will) in the frame of its beliefs, as result of its perceptions of the reality created by your subconscious, to the extent of its abilities to respond instinctually, emotionally, intellectually, intuitionally. Read my longer reply to ZD above. Just briefly. We are born as essence, our true self. As soon as the baby is born, incoming information is stored in our neural structure, and network of connecting neurons, thousands and thousands of connections. The average person has more neural connections than there are stars in the universe (that's about 100,000,000,000 x 100,000,000,000), so wes is complicated. By about age six, these form what we refer to as self. But it is a false self, an imaginary self, our true self, essence, is buried underneath. So this so-called SVP can only operate from its own programming, it can never get beyond its programming, this is like trying to jump over your own knees. But it is possible to once again live through one's essence (to once again be-essence). Now, from what you say (overall), it seems inavalan has recovered essence and lives through essence. But sdp can't say for sure. I'm petty sure ZD lives through essence, about 99.999% sure. But he accepts ~where he is now~, to be the end of the journey. It's not, I'm sure it's not. As far as I can tell, most everybody else here is a ~mixture~ of essence and small s self (the so-called SVP). Some "less confident", here, probably are more-in essence. inavalan is way out over the edge from most everybody else here. sdp can't discern if that is indeed true, or if it's all just an elaborate ~mind-map~ (an abstraction). The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So you can know, but I can't know that you know. You, are not a machine. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 1, 2023 21:00:20 GMT -5
Read my longer reply to ZD above. Just briefly. We are born as essence, our true self. As soon as the baby is born, incoming information is stored in our neural structure, and network of connecting neurons, thousands and thousands of connections. The average person has more neural connections than there are stars in the universe (that's about 100,000,000,000 x 100,000,000,000), so wes is complicated. By about age six, these form what we refer to as self. But it is a false self, an imaginary self, our true self, essence, is buried underneath. So this so-called SVP can only operate from its own programming, it can never get beyond its programming, this is like trying to jump over your own knees. But it is possible to once again live through one's essence (to once again be-essence). Now, from what you say (overall), it seems inavalan has recovered essence and lives through essence. But sdp can't say for sure. I'm petty sure ZD lives through essence, about 99.999% sure. But he accepts ~where he is now~, to be the end of the journey. It's not, I'm sure it's not. As far as I can tell, most everybody else here is a ~mixture~ of essence and small s self (the so-called SVP). Some "less confident", here, probably are more-in essence. inavalan is way out over the edge from most everybody else here. sdp can't discern if that is indeed true, or if it's all just an elaborate ~mind-map~ (an abstraction). The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So you can know, but I can't know that you know. You, are not a machine. Don't you ever ask yourself why this bothers you so much? You have raised this about ten times over the last few years. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 1, 2023 21:51:01 GMT -5
Don't you ever ask yourself why this bothers you so much? You have raised this about ten times over the last few years. Doesn't bother me, it's just worth mentioning is all.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 1, 2023 22:47:06 GMT -5
Don't you ever ask yourself why this bothers you so much? You have raised this about ten times over the last few years. Doesn't bother me, it's just worth mentioning is all. This is why I have the view I do, that we are two, essence, and personality/persona/mask/small s self. The small s self is just a complicated neural network of memory-programs, gestalts of "video recordings". For most people, their living essence is buried under the neural network. The small s self chokes the life out of most people, quite literally. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 2, 2023 1:28:24 GMT -5
Doesn't bother me, it's just worth mentioning is all. This is why I have the view I do, that we are two, essence, and personality/persona/mask/small s self. The small s self is just a complicated neural network of memory-programs, gestalts of "video recordings". For most people, their living essence is buried under the neural network. The small s self chokes the life out of most people, quite literally. These structures are all just interpretations of mind about the forms that are constantly coming and going. The machine, once seen for what it is, isn't mistaken for what you are. It really is that simple, but there's no algorithm that can lead to that "seeing", because it's not mechanistic. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 2, 2023 1:31:50 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply. I confess that sometimes I find it difficult to follow, because of the scientific angle, and because of the different terminology. It is easier to explain my view, than to comment on others'. There is also some reticence on commenting, because I don't intend to argue the merits of my views, nor others', more than for creating symbolic opportunities. Getting back at " Man can do what he wants but cannot want what he wants." - Arthur Schopenhauer The only way that that could make sense to me is: - man = ego
he = whole-self
substituting "cannot" with "doesn't"
Your ego doesn't want what your whole-self wants. And this is because, for most of us, our egos are "separated" from our whole-selves. They don't have to be. There are limiting beliefs in play that make it so, and those limiting beliefs can be, and should be identified and dispelled. I can agree with this. To be clear, you are saying that you are aware of your whole-self? I don't doubt that's possible, that's the whole purpose of being here. And you are also saying that whole-self extends beyond space and time? (As we know space and time). As I am perfectly confident of ~the process~, it can be put into two words. Can you put it into two words? (In a nutshell). Also as I understand it, dispelling the limited beliefs is not enough. What's further? I don't mean to put you on the spot, but yes, I'm putting you on the spot. Putting words on a screen is easy. I define my "whole-self" as the consciousness-gestalt that includes all my reincarnational personalities. There are an infinite number of consciousness-gestalts "above" (and "bellow") the "whole-self". When you experience death through a life-between-lives regression, you experience your whole-self. In my experience, you feel pretty much as when you wake up from a dream. You are just a little "smarter", but you are more clear about who you are, you recall more about yourself, and you don't really care much about what happened in the dream that just ended. If it was a nightmare you want to quickly forget about it. Neither you, nor anybody else hold you accountable for what you did in your dream. Those dreams are like incubated dreams. Physical-space and physical-time apply only to the ego. I don't know what "the process" is. In every state of consciousness, the personality operates within a specific system of beliefs (some are specific to the state, others were acquired by the personality). The events and situations your ego experiences and observes can lead to the identification of those beliefs, usually one by one. When beliefs cause negative emotions, it is a sign that you need to identify them, then deal with them. Ultimately you'd want to become "lucid", to realize what you're here to do, both in general and in particular, so that you can align your egos wants with your personality's. There are various level of lucidity possible. You don't put me on the spot. If I can respond, then I do it, honestly. If I can't, or don't want to respond, then I don't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 3:08:53 GMT -5
You don't mean the outside, but on the thread, right??  .. cause otherwise, like: " ouch!, that's gonna' leave a" (water) "mark".  you sound like you know a lot about plumbing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 3:15:51 GMT -5
Read my longer reply to ZD above. Just briefly. We are born as essence, our true self. As soon as the baby is born, incoming information is stored in our neural structure, and network of connecting neurons, thousands and thousands of connections. The average person has more neural connections than there are stars in the universe (that's about 100,000,000,000 x 100,000,000,000), so wes is complicated. By about age six, these form what we refer to as self. But it is a false self, an imaginary self, our true self, essence, is buried underneath. So this so-called SVP can only operate from its own programming, it can never get beyond its programming, this is like trying to jump over your own knees. But it is possible to once again live through one's essence (to once again be-essence). Now, from what you say (overall), it seems inavalan has recovered essence and lives through essence. But sdp can't say for sure. I'm petty sure ZD lives through essence, about 99.999% sure. But he accepts ~where he is now~, to be the end of the journey. It's not, I'm sure it's not. As far as I can tell, most everybody else here is a ~mixture~ of essence and small s self (the so-called SVP). Some "less confident", here, probably are more-in essence. inavalan is way out over the edge from most everybody else here. sdp can't discern if that is indeed true, or if it's all just an elaborate ~mind-map~ (an abstraction). The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So you can know, but I can't know that you know. Just to be clear, from my POV there is no "end to the journey" because how THIS will unfold is unknowable. THIS is infinite and beyond concept (including the concept of a beginning or an end). If one discovers that there are no boundaries (except in imagination) and that all thoughts about reality are imaginary, then THIS/the Unborn is the only thingless thing that is capable of contemplating its own isness, asking questions, finding answers, or doing anything else. What will THIS, manifesting as a human being, do next? It's like asking, "What thought will occur next?" Seeking usually comes to an end as soon as realizations occur that result in peace of mind, and that will vary from human to human. Some people have dozens of questions/issues that need to be resolved, and some people have very few. I go for a walk every day or so, and I carry along a pen and something to write on because while walking in silence thoughts will suddenly appear that suggest possible future courses of action. Today I was walking past a piece of property that I've thought about buying for improvement and resale. I hadn't pursued the issue because the property is rocky and might not have enough topsoil for a septic system for a 3 bedroom home. In the past I thought about making an offer and putting in a contingency that the property be approved by the environmental authorities. I would have to initiate a purchase contract, stake out a future home and driveway, and then pay the environmental office $1000 to get an inspector to determine if they would approve it for a 3 bedroom home. If they refused to approve it, I would exercise the contingency and lose $1000. Today, as I walked by the property, it suddenly dawned on me that I could pay a soil scientist $150 for an unofficial opinion that would give me a good sense of whether the property would be approved or not. A new idea right out of the subconscious! I can meet a soils guy at the property, describe the potential layout, and not have to stake anything out. He could punch a few holes in the ground, look at the soils, and give me an opinion. If negative, I'm only out $150. If positive, I make an offer, do the stakeout, pay $1000, and the odds for success would be worth the effort and risk. Gotta love how THIS comes up with new ideas! A pen and something to write on? I would have used the voice recorder on my phone because then you could keep on walking while you're talking. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 2, 2023 9:06:06 GMT -5
The original quote is this: "Der Mensch kann zwar tun was er will, aber er kann nicht wollen, was er will." Schopenhauer's, or Einstein's quoting Schopenhauer (both native German speakers)? I thought that to be relevant information. The context (in that English translation, see the attachment), says a little more about what Schopenhauer meant. On the other hand, it doesn't matter what Schopenhauer intended to say, but what one infers from it intuitively. Isn't it? Schopenhauer was an interesting character. He read and studied the Upanishads which had just become available in Latin. It had a major impact on his world view and philosophy. Schopenhauer was, to my knowledge, the first of the Western philosophers who was pointing directly to what we here call the impersonal perspective with his concept of 'the will'. |
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