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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 9:51:53 GMT -5
Put your Tao Te Ching translation on Amazon print on demand (plus as ebook of course), I will buy it. With commentaries even better. Here's the Aleister Crowley one, if you're interested. sacred-texts.com/oto/lib157.htmThanks, I always go to Chapter 20 first. I will check out Chapter 20. The only book I almost got by Crowley was his Thoth Tarot book. Edit: Chapter 20 is pretty good. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 9:58:11 GMT -5
Thanks, I always go to Chapter 20 first. I will check out Chapter 20. The only book I almost got by Crowley was his Thoth Tarot book. Edit: Chapter 20 is pretty good. Hahaha.. I gotta go and read it now as well  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 10:25:51 GMT -5
Thanks, I always go to Chapter 20 first. I will check out Chapter 20. The only book I almost got by Crowley was his Thoth Tarot book. Edit: Chapter 20 is pretty good. Hahaha.. I gotta go and read it now as well 48 years ago on first reading, I saw I was chapter 20. I'm still chapter 20. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 10:35:48 GMT -5
Hahaha.. I gotta go and read it now as well 48 years ago on first reading, I saw I was chapter 20. I'm still chapter 20. I would want to embody every chapter at some point in that amount of years. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 10:47:33 GMT -5
48 years ago on first reading, I saw I was chapter 20. I'm still chapter 20. I would want to embody every chapter at some point in that amount of years. Yes, truly. |
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Post by sree on Aug 14, 2022 12:14:47 GMT -5
I have not reviewed my translation in years. I retrieved the file to reply your post because I remembered reading Jane English/Gia Fu Feng's version, the one I liked best. Their book had the Chinese text alongside the English translation. I noticed that the first line in Chinese was omitted in the English translation. I felt the first line was critical: "If the Tao were to come upon the world." Why did Jane English omit that? She viewed the Tao as a power that can be wielded through a spiritually-honed person.
I saw it differently. The central teaching is based on the unknowable Way. As such, the first line retained would give the reading a different meaning that reflected the Chinese mindset of subservience to the Way. Jane's western mind wielded the Tao like a sword.
Now, on reviewing my own translation, I find that it is not even satisfactory. This ancient scriptural text was formed in another cultural context. "Cooking a small fish" doesn't match the vision invoked by the Chinese verse which could mean capital punishment of some sort. In ancient times, boiling people alive was an imperial edict. Such was the power of officials exerting the Emperor's authority in controlling the far-flung territories of China.
Chinese philosophical texts are meant for self-reflection to draw from within: that inexhaustible spring of wisdom. Western philosophy is prescriptive, a set piece of advice to act in a specific way.
I came only to leave a couple of quotes, saw this. In January 1974 this translation was assigned for a class. I went to the college bookstore, browsed and bought. I sat in my car and read the whole thing. I'd say it's still in my top five all-time favorite books. The Gia Fu Feng/Jane English translation is still my favorite. I recognized myself in Chapter 20, that's still me, 48 years later. If the Tao Te Ching has meaning for you, you sure don't show it. What do you mean? Show what? How can you tell - from the posts I wrote - what the Tao Te Ching is all about? Gia Fu Feng's self-conduct was as unspiritual as Alan Watts' and neither were good minders of their respective bodies. I cannot fault Krishnamurti in that regard.
Time and again, I have pointed out that the western mind cannot grasp eastern philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a western concoction. Jane English's version is not a direct translation but her interpretation of the Chinese text used by Gia Fu Feng. There are several different received texts pieced together from ancient scripts by native scholars. They are all inscrutable even to the Chinese. Do you know why? Every character has no specific meaning. Each verse can be read differently because they have no punctuation marks. This is the way classical Chinese was written. Some sections are easily accessible and do convey astute observations of human nature. And that's about it. The Tao that cannot be told, to me, is just a direct statement about mysterious nature of reality. Science (i.e. the western mind, namely you) rejects that finality. Holding Einstein in one hand and the Tao Te Ching in the other makes you look ridiculous. Do you understand?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 13:03:41 GMT -5
I came only to leave a couple of quotes, saw this. In January 1974 this translation was assigned for a class. I went to the college bookstore, browsed and bought. I sat in my car and read the whole thing. I'd say it's still in my top five all-time favorite books. The Gia Fu Feng/Jane English translation is still my favorite. I recognized myself in Chapter 20, that's still me, 48 years later. If the Tao Te Ching has meaning for you, you sure don't show it. What do you mean? Show what? How can you tell - from the posts I wrote - what the Tao Te Ching is all about? Gia Fu Feng self-conduct was as unspiritual as Alan Watts' and neither were good minders of their respective bodies. I cannot fault Krishnamurti in that regard.
Time and again, I have pointed out that the western mind cannot grasp eastern philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a western concoction. Jane English's version is not a direct translation but her interpretation of the Chinese text used by Gia Fu Feng. There are several different received texts pieced together from ancient scripts by native scholars. They are all inscrutable even to the Chinese. Do you know why? Every character has no specific meaning. Each verse can be read differently because they have no punctuation marks. This is the way classical Chinese was written. Some sections are easily accessible and do convey astute observations of human nature. And that's about it. The Tao that cannot be told, to me, is just a direct statement about mysterious nature of reality. Science (i.e. the western mind, namely you) rejects that finality. Holding Einstein in one hand and the Tao Te Ching in the other makes you look ridiculous. Do you understand?
What is your indepth understanding of what a mind (of any culture) can grasp? |
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Post by sree on Aug 14, 2022 15:09:46 GMT -5
What do you mean? Show what? How can you tell - from the posts I wrote - what the Tao Te Ching is all about? Gia Fu Feng self-conduct was as unspiritual as Alan Watts' and neither were good minders of their respective bodies. I cannot fault Krishnamurti in that regard.
Time and again, I have pointed out that the western mind cannot grasp eastern philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a western concoction. Jane English's version is not a direct translation but her interpretation of the Chinese text used by Gia Fu Feng. There are several different received texts pieced together from ancient scripts by native scholars. They are all inscrutable even to the Chinese. Do you know why? Every character has no specific meaning. Each verse can be read differently because they have no punctuation marks. This is the way classical Chinese was written. Some sections are easily accessible and do convey astute observations of human nature. And that's about it. The Tao that cannot be told, to me, is just a direct statement about mysterious nature of reality. Science (i.e. the western mind, namely you) rejects that finality. Holding Einstein in one hand and the Tao Te Ching in the other makes you look ridiculous. Do you understand?
What is your indepth understanding of what a mind (of any culture) can grasp? There is nothing in-depth. Everything in life is upfront, laid out and plain to see unless it is propaganda, a deliberate molding of perception by the government to control you or a magician performing magic tricks to entertain you.
What the mind can grasp is not out there and separate from the mind. Everything you see, as an American, is what you are. It's made in America. It's not manufactured in China. It's made in the USA.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 19:35:05 GMT -5
What is your indepth understanding of what a mind (of any culture) can grasp? There is nothing in-depth. Everything in life is upfront, laid out and plain to see unless it is propaganda, a deliberate molding of perception by the government to control you or a magician performing magic tricks to entertain you. What the mind can grasp is not out there and separate from the mind. Everything you see, as an American, is what you are. It's made in America. It's not manufactured in China. It's made in the USA.
OK, there's stuff in here, it's just hard to get to. Feel free to keep talking if you think you can help me sort this out. I really don't think my personal location makes any difference whatsoever. And 'my life' was formed while in America, so what? If I had been born elsewhere then my life would have been entirely different, so what? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2022 20:21:11 GMT -5
What is politics according to philosophers? Political philosophy can be defined as philosophical reflection on how best to arrange our collective life - our political institutions and our social practices, such as our economic system and our pattern of family life. (Wikipedia) Plato in The Republic said a King-as-Philosopher would be the best ruler. In the US such could never get elected. Marcus Aurelius may have been the only example IRL. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2022 20:38:23 GMT -5
I came only to leave a couple of quotes, saw this. In January 1974 this translation was assigned for a class. I went to the college bookstore, browsed and bought. I sat in my car and read the whole thing. I'd say it's still in my top five all-time favorite books. The Gia Fu Feng/Jane English translation is still my favorite. I recognized myself in Chapter 20, that's still me, 48 years later. If the Tao Te Ching has meaning for you, you sure don't show it. What do you mean? Show what? How can you tell - from the posts I wrote - what the Tao Te Ching is all about? Gia Fu Feng's self-conduct was as unspiritual as Alan Watts' and neither were good minders of their respective bodies. I cannot fault Krishnamurti in that regard.
Time and again, I have pointed out that the western mind cannot grasp eastern philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a western concoction. Jane English's version is not a direct translation but her interpretation of the Chinese text used by Gia Fu Feng. There are several different received texts pieced together from ancient scripts by native scholars. They are all inscrutable even to the Chinese. Do you know why? Every character has no specific meaning. Each verse can be read differently because they have no punctuation marks. This is the way classical Chinese was written. Some sections are easily accessible and do convey astute observations of human nature. And that's about it. The Tao that cannot be told, to me, is just a direct statement about mysterious nature of reality. Science (i.e. the western mind, namely you) rejects that finality. Holding Einstein in one hand and the Tao Te Ching in the other makes you look ridiculous. Do you understand?
I have over 30 translations of the Tao Te Ching. Your quotes from the Tao Te Ching have nothing to do with "you sure don't show it". Everything else you have written here on ST's shows "you sure don't show it". I put the Cheri Huber quotes up, specifically for sree. She is a very fine ~psychologist~ besides being a Zen teacher. You are not in any sense detached from self. Everybody here can see that. I still don't know what you are trying to accomplish, here. Whatever it is, you are not succeeding, unless your goal is to alienate everyone here. Have you read Chuang Tzu? If not, you are not really interested in Taoism. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 20:48:26 GMT -5
What do you mean? Show what? How can you tell - from the posts I wrote - what the Tao Te Ching is all about? Gia Fu Feng's self-conduct was as unspiritual as Alan Watts' and neither were good minders of their respective bodies. I cannot fault Krishnamurti in that regard.
Time and again, I have pointed out that the western mind cannot grasp eastern philosophies. The Tao Te Ching is a western concoction. Jane English's version is not a direct translation but her interpretation of the Chinese text used by Gia Fu Feng. There are several different received texts pieced together from ancient scripts by native scholars. They are all inscrutable even to the Chinese. Do you know why? Every character has no specific meaning. Each verse can be read differently because they have no punctuation marks. This is the way classical Chinese was written. Some sections are easily accessible and do convey astute observations of human nature. And that's about it. The Tao that cannot be told, to me, is just a direct statement about mysterious nature of reality. Science (i.e. the western mind, namely you) rejects that finality. Holding Einstein in one hand and the Tao Te Ching in the other makes you look ridiculous. Do you understand?
I have over 30 translations of the Tao Te Ching. Your quotes from the Tao Te Ching have nothing to do with "you sure don't show it". Everything else you have written here on ST's shows "you sure don't show it". I put the Cheri Huber quotes up, specifically for sree. She is a very fine ~psychologist~ besides being a Zen teacher. You are not in any sense detached from self. Everybody here can see that. I still don't know what you are trying to accomplish, here. Whatever it is, you are not succeeding, unless your goal is to alienate everyone here. Have you read Chuang Tzu? If not, you are not really interested in Taoism. He's not alienating me, and though this may prove be on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.. I don't want to give up without a fight. I talk funny, he talks funny, surely there is common ground somewhere. |
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Post by sree on Aug 14, 2022 21:09:03 GMT -5
I have over 30 translations of the Tao Te Ching. Your quotes from the Tao Te Ching have nothing to do with "you sure don't show it". Everything else you have written here on ST's shows "you sure don't show it". I put the Cheri Huber quotes up, specifically for sree. She is a very fine ~psychologist~ besides being a Zen teacher. You are not in any sense detached from self. Everybody here can see that. I still don't know what you are trying to accomplish, here. Whatever it is, you are not succeeding, unless your goal is to alienate everyone here. Have you read Chuang Tzu? If not, you are not really interested in Taoism. He's not alienating me, and though this may prove be on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.. I don't want to give up without a fight. I talk funny, he talks funny, surely there is common ground somewhere. Right on, Virginian. Talking funny is a good way to put it. If you don't talk funny, you are dead!
Jesus talked funny and was crucified. Socrates talked funny and was forced to take poison. I talk funny and stardust wants me out. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2022 21:11:19 GMT -5
He's not alienating me, and though this may prove be on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.. I don't want to give up without a fight. I talk funny, he talks funny, surely there is common ground somewhere. Right on, Virginian. Talking funny is a good way to put it. If you don't talk funny, you are dead!
Jesus talked funny and was crucified. Socrates talked funny and was forced to take poison. I talk funny and stardust wants me out. Where have I ever said I want you out? Not my job. I don't care if you post, or not. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 14, 2022 21:16:25 GMT -5
I have over 30 translations of the Tao Te Ching. Your quotes from the Tao Te Ching have nothing to do with "you sure don't show it". Everything else you have written here on ST's shows "you sure don't show it". I put the Cheri Huber quotes up, specifically for sree. She is a very fine ~psychologist~ besides being a Zen teacher. You are not in any sense detached from self. Everybody here can see that. I still don't know what you are trying to accomplish, here. Whatever it is, you are not succeeding, unless your goal is to alienate everyone here. Have you read Chuang Tzu? If not, you are not really interested in Taoism. He's not alienating me, and though this may prove be on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries.. I don't want to give up without a fight. I talk funny, he talks funny, surely there is common ground somewhere. What sree may or may not be up to, has nothing to do with how other people respond to him. I don't think he understands that. Probably most everybody else here, does. Yes, I agree, don't give up without a fight. |
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