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Post by laughter on Jul 27, 2022 14:18:05 GMT -5
Any "irritation" as to this dialog is quite mild, I assure you. Especially since it's a re-hash of the same discussion we've had many times before. Get present to what you're projecting.  It's been explained to you many times that existential "knowledge" is actually an absence, a falling away. You don't gain anything in the realizations that can end the seeking, you actually lose the impetus to associate this relative knowledge with what you've realized. Among other things. I know you don't accept that, but it is what it is, and I'm not going to lie to you about it, nor remain silent in this instance. Yes, I think I know what I know about physics as I've discussed it with you in this dialog, but that is relative knowledge about the world of form. I'm not faulting you for that, and it can sometimes be fun bantering with you on the topic. I certainly understand the interest. But it is relative knowledge about what comes and goes. I find what you write now to be self-contradictory to what you wrote here: QM is not a window into the existential unkonwn. It's a window on a wall of an old apartment building that sold the air rights to the developer next door almost a hundred years ago now. As for the trail, do you remember the dream ZD described in Pouring Concrete? The one where he followed tracks (can't remember, might have been train tracks or not) .. he followed them out into a field where they just sort of faded away into the grass or the landscape. Do you remember reading that? First, my journey is an existential journey, I think I've been pretty clear on this. I've said my journey is about blood, sweat and tears. For me, seeing through self, the illusion of self, the cultural self/small s self, is the beginning, it's just the first rung of the ladder. In the words of Simone Weil, then decreation begins (Gravity and Grace), in the words of Thomas Keating, dismantling begins (Invitation To Love, this in relation to the Desert Fathers, and Mothers). I'm about understanding, not realizations. You are right, I don't accept that, for me. It does not compute, for me (Not that it doesn't compute, I just think what you-all [ND] think is the end of the journey is just the beginning of the journey. I've told zd about 15 times, in public conversation, there's more, but I leave it there because that's all that can be said, on this end). I have no problem with anyone else's journey or not-journey or end of journey or ND not-journey. I know ~you all~ think I'm walking out to the desert-mirage with my canteen. But what you (plural) think of me is none of my business (unless anyone wants to engage). I read Pouring Concrete a long time ago, I don't remember the dream. (And I owe zd, as I bought it used). Lastly, what don't you get about the word (metaphorically)? one of us is irritated?  This is where these dialogs eventually dead-end, and that's just fine. The only way to avoid writing what can come off as condescension is to either lie or remain silent. I'm sure you feel the same way. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 27, 2022 14:22:38 GMT -5
I've got no interest in responding to your question with any sincerity because I find the source of the question to be devoid of sincere curiosity. No hard feelings btw, and I would hope the same from you, I'm just being honest. I have no idea why you came up with that in regards to what I said . It was a genuine question based upon the lack of actual answers I get from asking straightforward questions . Straightforward questions that should be relatively effortless to answer if one has realised Consciousness . You didn't care to answer what constitutes a person the other day . That's fine . You don't have to but it seems that any straightforward answers are pretty rare on non duality forums even though the philosophies flow . No hard feelings taken, I am more surprised by what you said more than anything else . All my questions are genuine . At times I am probably more seriously questioning what I do, it really depends on how the other person is behaving towards me . . |
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Post by sree on Jul 27, 2022 16:10:06 GMT -5
I like your line of questioning. It does cut out the BS. And when it does, peeps get annoyed.
Consciousness is a mystery. It has created a world and it has created me. Since we both don't care for BS, why don't you deal with me. I have been delving into this shit and dug out much to investigate with another pair of critical eyes. Some of the stuff will blow your mind. What do you say?
Stop wasting your time with peeps who need to wallow in BS. Let them be. They need it because they cannot handle the truth.
It's always been that way with certain peeps. You get to know something about other's not only by what they say butt by how they say it . If they are true to their realisations then they would be able to answer without effort and without ridicule or deflection. I am seeing jack Nicholson in the video clip and imagining you with your gun  Kinda crazy hey? Any similarities I should know about? Not crazy at all. I understand why you would imagine me in that way. A similarity would be an impatience with peeps. You needle peeps. I hunt them.
You said you transcended consciousness in your Post 7893 on Page 15. How did you do that?
I ask this question because I said that consciousness is me. I cannot transcend me. No way. So, how did you do it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 19:28:42 GMT -5
I haven't realised what Consciousness is . When I transcended, I didn't have the magic word pop up in my head . If peeps want to discuss the dictionary definitions then that is another matter . When peeps speak about appearances arising out of consciousness and the bus and the bus driver are consciousness and the bus and the bus driver only appear when you look at them etc etc, I want to know from them what is this Consciousness you have realised . It seems peeps like to swap awareness and Consciousness at times any willy nilly, What I am is conscious and aware .. I haven't realised I am Consciousess on the back of that . In order for peeps to make a self realised stance regarding appearances and all things then they have to have realised that . As you know non conceptual pointers don't work in these regards . If peeps were only honest . It's kinda odd really, all the supposed character traits of a Self realised peep seem to be abundantly missing on non duality forums . If you transcended then all you would have experienced is consciousness. So therefore you do know what it is. You don't have to say what it is to know what it is. In fact nobody knows what it is. it just is what it is. How can you describe Consciousness when there is nothing else to compare it with. So don't worry about anyone answering your question. Nobody can, even though they know what Consciousness is. We are all conscious therefore we know what it is without having to answer because there is no answer. |
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Post by sree on Jul 27, 2022 21:57:38 GMT -5
I haven't realised what Consciousness is . When I transcended, I didn't have the magic word pop up in my head . If peeps want to discuss the dictionary definitions then that is another matter . When peeps speak about appearances arising out of consciousness and the bus and the bus driver are consciousness and the bus and the bus driver only appear when you look at them etc etc, I want to know from them what is this Consciousness you have realised . It seems peeps like to swap awareness and Consciousness at times any willy nilly, What I am is conscious and aware .. I haven't realised I am Consciousess on the back of that . In order for peeps to make a self realised stance regarding appearances and all things then they have to have realised that . As you know non conceptual pointers don't work in these regards . If peeps were only honest . It's kinda odd really, all the supposed character traits of a Self realised peep seem to be abundantly missing on non duality forums .
If you transcended then all you would have experienced is consciousness. So therefore you do know what it is. You don't have to say what it is to know what it is. In fact nobody knows what it is. it just is what it is. How can you describe Consciousness when there is nothing else to compare it with. So don't worry about anyone answering your question. Nobody can, even though they know what Consciousness is. We are all conscious therefore we know what it is without having to answer because there is no answer. Is it not possible to identify consciousness even if there is nothing to compare it with? How does science discover new things then? What did Newton compare gravity with when he discovered it?
We are all conscious, as you said. We do know what it is to be conscious. Why can't you tell tenka that? Why say there is no answer?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 22:09:52 GMT -5
If you transcended then all you would have experienced is consciousness. So therefore you do know what it is. You don't have to say what it is to know what it is. In fact nobody knows what it is. it just is what it is. How can you describe Consciousness when there is nothing else to compare it with. So don't worry about anyone answering your question. Nobody can, even though they know what Consciousness is. We are all conscious therefore we know what it is without having to answer because there is no answer. Is it not possible to identify consciousness even if there is nothing to compare it with? How does science discover new things then? What did Newton compare gravity with when he discovered it?
We are all conscious, as you said. We do know what it is to be conscious. Why can't you tell tenka that? Why say there is no answer?
I've given my answer. Now give me yours. What is consciousness? Science hasn't answered that question and never will. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 4:57:40 GMT -5
Is it not possible to identify consciousness even if there is nothing to compare it with? How does science discover new things then? What did Newton compare gravity with when he discovered it?
We are all conscious, as you said. We do know what it is to be conscious. Why can't you tell tenka that? Why say there is no answer?
I've given my answer. Now give me yours. What is consciousness? Science hasn't answered that question and never will. Ask a boxer he can tell you. He might even give you a demonstration if you ask nicely. Ever had 'your bell rung'?? It's not a loss of consciousness.. but it's close. A state of shock and a momentary loss of being able to direct your body to move. It can be rather humbling as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 5:42:36 GMT -5
I've given my answer. Now give me yours. What is consciousness? Science hasn't answered that question and never will. Ask a boxer he can tell you. He might even give you a demonstration if you ask nicely. Ever had 'your bell rung'?? It's not a loss of consciousness.. but it's close. A state of shock and a momentary loss of being able to direct your body to move. It can be rather humbling as well. If I'd asked Muhammad Ali he'd tell me that he dances like a butterfly and stings like a bee but that still doesn't tell me what Consciousness is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 5:51:25 GMT -5
Ask a boxer he can tell you. He might even give you a demonstration if you ask nicely. Ever had 'your bell rung'?? It's not a loss of consciousness.. but it's close. A state of shock and a momentary loss of being able to direct your body to move. It can be rather humbling as well. If I'd asked Muhammad Ali he'd tell me that he dances like a butterfly and stings like a bee but that still doesn't tell me what Consciousness is. What does answering a what question imply? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 5:58:08 GMT -5
If I'd asked Muhammad Ali he'd tell me that he dances like a butterfly and stings like a bee but that still doesn't tell me what Consciousness is. What does answering a what question imply? Watch the Richard Feynman video that SDP posted on what is magnetic attraction. Feynman's answer on why do magnets attract is similar to this question about what is consciousness. There just isn't a definitive answer. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 28, 2022 7:23:39 GMT -5
I haven't realised what Consciousness is . When I transcended, I didn't have the magic word pop up in my head . If peeps want to discuss the dictionary definitions then that is another matter . When peeps speak about appearances arising out of consciousness and the bus and the bus driver are consciousness and the bus and the bus driver only appear when you look at them etc etc, I want to know from them what is this Consciousness you have realised . It seems peeps like to swap awareness and Consciousness at times any willy nilly, What I am is conscious and aware .. I haven't realised I am Consciousess on the back of that . In order for peeps to make a self realised stance regarding appearances and all things then they have to have realised that . As you know non conceptual pointers don't work in these regards . If peeps were only honest . It's kinda odd really, all the supposed character traits of a Self realised peep seem to be abundantly missing on non duality forums . If you transcended then all you would have experienced is consciousness. So therefore you do know what it is. You don't have to say what it is to know what it is. In fact nobody knows what it is. it just is what it is. How can you describe Consciousness when there is nothing else to compare it with. So don't worry about anyone answering your question. Nobody can, even though they know what Consciousness is. We are all conscious therefore we know what it is without having to answer because there is no answer. Well, right, there is no answer that intellect can offer or ever reach. Intellect can define the question though. The commonsense knowledge you're alluding to has two very different facets to it out at the limits past were intellect has any use. On one hand is hard self-evidence. But on the other, is a mystery. Realizing the existential truth banishes any question or curiosity about that mystery from the mind, without robbing the the mind of awe about it, but rather, even deepening awe into a sense of "agape". |
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Post by laughter on Jul 28, 2022 7:25:57 GMT -5
Is it not possible to identify consciousness even if there is nothing to compare it with? How does science discover new things then? What did Newton compare gravity with when he discovered it?
We are all conscious, as you said. We do know what it is to be conscious. Why can't you tell tenka that? Why say there is no answer?
I've given my answer. Now give me yours. What is consciousness? Science hasn't answered that question and never will. They have a pretend answer by re-characterizing the question in functional terms. To them, "consciousness" is a black box with a set of inputs and outputs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 7:29:15 GMT -5
If you transcended then all you would have experienced is consciousness. So therefore you do know what it is. You don't have to say what it is to know what it is. In fact nobody knows what it is. it just is what it is. How can you describe Consciousness when there is nothing else to compare it with. So don't worry about anyone answering your question. Nobody can, even though they know what Consciousness is. We are all conscious therefore we know what it is without having to answer because there is no answer. Well, right, there is no answer that intellect can offer or ever reach. Intellect can define the question though. The commonsense knowledge you're alluding to has two very different facets to it out at the limits past were intellect has any use. On one hand is hard self-evidence. But on the other, is a mystery. Realizing the existential truth banishes any question or curiosity about that mystery from the mind, without robbing the the mind of awe about it, but rather, even deepening awe into a sense of "agape". You do realize that what you have said isn't going to satisfy tenka unless you put on a gorilla suit and manifest pink elephants. |
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Post by sree on Jul 28, 2022 8:31:01 GMT -5
I've given my answer. Now give me yours. What is consciousness? Science hasn't answered that question and never will. Ask a boxer he can tell you. He might even give you a demonstration if you ask nicely. Ever had 'your bell rung'?? It's not a loss of consciousness.. but it's close. A state of shock and a momentary loss of being able to direct your body to move. It can be rather humbling as well. Quite right. The ability to direct your body to move is consciousness in action. And I am that as in "Thou At That" just as those tat twam asi dolts would say. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 10:59:22 GMT -5
Ask a boxer he can tell you. He might even give you a demonstration if you ask nicely. Ever had 'your bell rung'?? It's not a loss of consciousness.. but it's close. A state of shock and a momentary loss of being able to direct your body to move. It can be rather humbling as well. Quite right. The ability to direct your body to move is consciousness in action. And I am that as in "Thou At That" just as those tat twam asi dolts would say. in my example of a rung bell that just means your brain took trauma and got rattled to the point that it momentarily lost its bearings. the brain's pretty important.. gets its own unique protective carrying case and everything |
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