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Death
Jul 18, 2022 8:30:40 GMT -5
Post by ouroboros on Jul 18, 2022 8:30:40 GMT -5
Well, in order to argue rationally, we must define what I mean by "we are nothing more than a movement of thought", mustn't we?
"Movement of thought" is a Krishnamurti phrase. My use of his expression may not coincide with his but the old man is not here to correct me. But you are correcting me.
You guys debate endlessly on this and that and never seem to come to agreement. The reason is because you are all acting like chimps. Consider me a chimp, and you are another chimp. The only way you and I can carry a log and place it across the stream is for both of us to see the log for what it is, see the stream for what it is, and share the same intent.
I said that "we" (X) are "a movement of thought" (Y). This is to say, X=Y. And you say: "This is just not so." X is not equal to Y. Can you prove it? To work out the sum, you must, firstly, define X and Y.
Is this hard? Even Bohm couldn't work out the sum. Let's see you do it.
Okay, well that gives me a better understanding of where you are coming from with your assertion of that phrase. I'm still not sure of any widespread practical application for that. Other than that any real change begins with clear seeing. |
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Death
Jul 18, 2022 10:04:23 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 18, 2022 10:04:23 GMT -5
Do you see how this relates to sree's notion that nothing ever changes? Everything is constantly in an ever-ephemeral flux, but there is never anything truly new under the Sun. This it ever is through the prism of mind!  To be fair I posed 'whether some things may never change' as a question before that, and he said he didn't see that as being the case. So he thinks wholesale change is a possibility. I'm just not understanding how he proposes about achieving that. Instigating it, or at least accelerating it. It must be done collectively as he sees it, and he seems to want it done now for his peace of mind. I don't think it's going to come by understanding and spreading JK's teachings. These conversations always conjure the adage 'be the change you want to see in the world'. I'm not sure dropping out and concentrating on boats and fine dining is the answer either. Tbh I'm not exactly sure where he's coming from yet, so just probing. Dropping out was not a matter of choice; neither is my lifestyle. (I have nothing to do with spreading the Krishnamurti teaching. I have been thrown out and banned from every Krishnamurti discussion forum.) I have always lived well. It was consistent with my drive to be at the top of my game in school, in my profession, and my personal life.
Anyway, after Krishnamurti got under my skin, I looked East, delving into Buddhism, Hinduism, and Chinese philosophy to get a better grip on the stuff his inane spiritual speak was alluding to. One thing I had in common with Krishnamurti was a lament on the sorry state of mankind. He called for a fundamental change clouded in a mysticism that appealed to spiritualist types. My take was different. I couldn’t understand why creatures like me with such amazing capability at technological achievements have to live like cretins suffering poverty and mired in endless conflict. (And zazeniac – someone who cared for the well-being of earthworms - said that war is necessary!) Krishnamurti’s challenge would ring constantly in my head. “Would you give your heart to find out? Can you do it? Please give your heart to find out. ”
How could I find out? I was working in a Fortune 500 company climbing the stairways to the stars. I was recruited right out of university (corporate head-hunters do that), and after two years working in the company, I knew I was being fast-tracked into management from my professional job in operations. Time never came to an end for me even while on vacation. Time was from where I was as a shit-hot engineer to achieving my ambition of running a top US corporation as CEO. I was torn between that and saving mankind. Which is more worthwhile? Can you answer that question if you were me then?
One morning, my boss came by and was at the door of my office. There were match sticks, all laid out neatly in formation, on my table. I was in the middle of consulting the I Ching. Right then, I realized it was time to go. I couldn’t serve two masters anymore. I had become a weirdo. |
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Death
Jul 18, 2022 11:16:48 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 18, 2022 11:16:48 GMT -5
Well, in order to argue rationally, we must define what I mean by "we are nothing more than a movement of thought", mustn't we?
"Movement of thought" is a Krishnamurti phrase. My use of his expression may not coincide with his but the old man is not here to correct me. But you are correcting me.
You guys debate endlessly on this and that and never seem to come to agreement. The reason is because you are all acting like chimps. Consider me a chimp, and you are another chimp. The only way you and I can carry a log and place it across the stream is for both of us to see the log for what it is, see the stream for what it is, and share the same intent.
I said that "we" (X) are "a movement of thought" (Y). This is to say, X=Y. And you say: "This is just not so." X is not equal to Y. Can you prove it? To work out the sum, you must, firstly, define X and Y.
Is this hard? Even Bohm couldn't work out the sum. Let's see you do it.
Okay, well that gives me a better understanding of where you are coming from with your assertion of that phrase. I'm still not sure of any widespread practical application for that. Other than that any real change begins with clear seeing. You are exactly right.
Let me give you an idea of how difficult it is to see clearly. This is my take. Feel free to examine it and give me your take.
We assume we perceive with our senses. Krishnamurti would ask, "How do you see a tree or your wife? Can you see your wife without the image, the past, the memory of hurts? See that tree without any movement of thought when the mind is completely still. Can you do it?"
Can you? Can you even read these words in my post without any movement of thought? You won't be able to. They would be as unintelligible as كيف حالكم؟ .
What would your wife look like? I wonder. Krishnamurti was a dud as a teacher. No wonder Bohm couldn't understand him.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 18, 2022 11:28:13 GMT -5
Okay, well that gives me a better understanding of where you are coming from with your assertion of that phrase. I'm still not sure of any widespread practical application for that. Other than that any real change begins with clear seeing. You are exactly right. Let me give you an idea of how difficult it is to see clearly. This is my take. Feel free to examine it and give me your take. We assume we perceive with our senses. Krishnamurti would ask, "How do you see a tree or your wife? Can you see your wife without the image, the past, the memory of hurts? See that tree without any movement of thought when the mind is completely still. Can you do it?" Can you? Can you even read these words in my post without any movement of thought? You won't be able to. They would be as unintelligible as كيف حالكم؟ .
What would your wife look like? I wonder. Krishnamurti was a dud as a teacher. No wonder Bohm couldn't understand him.
A copy-n-paste with minor edits: The Travelers and the Grapes(The parable that follows was originally composed by the greatest of all Sufi poets, Jalal ad-Din Rumi (d. 1273) and recounted by Idries Shah, the Grand Shaykh of Sadarna.) A Persian, a Turk, and Arab and a Greek were traveling to a distant land when they began arguing over how to spend the single coin they possessed among themselves. All four craved food, but the Persian wanted to spend the coin on angur; the Turk, on uzum; the Arab, on inab; and the Greek, on stafil. The argument became heated as each man insisted on having what he desired. A linguist passing by overheard their quarrel. “Give the coin to me,” he said. “I undertake to satisfy the desires of all of you.” Taking the coin, the linguist went to a nearby shop and bought four small bunches of grapes. He then returned to the men and gave them each a bunch. “This is my angur!” cried the Persian. “But this is what I call uzum,” replied the Turk. “You have bought me my inab,” the Arab said. “No! This in my language is stafil.” All of a sudden, the men realized that what each of them had desired was in fact the same thing, only they did not know how to express themselves to each other. The four travelers represent humanity in its search for an inner spiritual need it cannot define and which it expresses in different ways. The linguist is the Sufi, who enlightens humanity to the fact that what it seeks (via its religions), though called by different names, are in reality one identical thing. However — and this is the most important aspect of the parable — the linguist can offer the travelers only the grapes and nothing more. He cannot offer them wine, which is “the essence of the fruit” (aka, spirit). In other words, human beings cannot be given the secret of ultimate reality, for such KNOWledge cannot be shared, but must be experienced (aka, Realized) through an arduous inner journey toward self-annihilation (aka, SELF-Realization). As the transcendent Iranian poet, Saadi of Shiraz, wrote: "I am a dreamer who is mute, and the people are deaf. I am unable to say, and they are unable to hear." |
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Death
Jul 18, 2022 11:40:21 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Jul 18, 2022 11:40:21 GMT -5
To be fair I posed 'whether some things may never change' as a question before that, and he said he didn't see that as being the case. So he thinks wholesale change is a possibility. I'm just not understanding how he proposes about achieving that. Instigating it, or at least accelerating it. It must be done collectively as he sees it, and he seems to want it done now for his peace of mind. I don't think it's going to come by understanding and spreading JK's teachings. These conversations always conjure the adage 'be the change you want to see in the world'. I'm not sure dropping out and concentrating on boats and fine dining is the answer either. Tbh I'm not exactly sure where he's coming from yet, so just probing. Dropping out was not a matter of choice; neither is my lifestyle. (I have nothing to do with spreading the Krishnamurti teaching. I have been thrown out and banned from every Krishnamurti discussion forum.) I have always lived well. It was consistent with my drive to be at the top of my game in school, in my profession, and my personal life. Anyway, after Krishnamurti got under my skin, I looked East, delving into Buddhism, Hinduism, and Chinese philosophy to get a better grip on the stuff his inane spiritual speak was alluding to. One thing I had in common with Krishnamurti was a lament on the sorry state of mankind. He called for a fundamental change clouded in a mysticism that appealed to spiritualist types. My take was different. I couldn’t understand why creatures like me with such amazing capability at technological achievements have to live like cretins suffering poverty and mired in endless conflict. (And zazeniac – someone who cared for the well-being of earthworms - said that war is necessary!) Krishnamurti’s challenge would ring constantly in my head. “Would you give your heart to find out? Can you do it? Please give your heart to find out. ”
How could I find out? I was working in a Fortune 500 company climbing the stairways to the stars. I was recruited right out of university (corporate head-hunters do that), and after two years working in the company, I knew I was being fast-tracked into management from my professional job in operations. Time never came to an end for me even while on vacation. Time was from where I was as a shit-hot engineer to achieving my ambition of running a top US corporation as CEO. I was torn between that and saving mankind. Which is more worthwhile? Can you answer that question if you were me then? One morning, my boss came by and was at the door of my office. There were match sticks, all laid out neatly in formation, on my table. I was in the middle of consulting the I Ching. Right then, I realized it was time to go. I couldn’t serve two masters anymore. I had become a weirdo. By 'saving mankind', do you mean that you want to experience a world of peace and harmony? Perhaps it would be better if you expressed the desire in your words, if you fancy it.... |
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Death
Jul 18, 2022 15:42:14 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 18, 2022 15:42:14 GMT -5
Dropping out was not a matter of choice; neither is my lifestyle. (I have nothing to do with spreading the Krishnamurti teaching. I have been thrown out and banned from every Krishnamurti discussion forum.) I have always lived well. It was consistent with my drive to be at the top of my game in school, in my profession, and my personal life. Anyway, after Krishnamurti got under my skin, I looked East, delving into Buddhism, Hinduism, and Chinese philosophy to get a better grip on the stuff his inane spiritual speak was alluding to. One thing I had in common with Krishnamurti was a lament on the sorry state of mankind. He called for a fundamental change clouded in a mysticism that appealed to spiritualist types. My take was different. I couldn’t understand why creatures like me with such amazing capability at technological achievements have to live like cretins suffering poverty and mired in endless conflict. (And zazeniac – someone who cared for the well-being of earthworms - said that war is necessary!) Krishnamurti’s challenge would ring constantly in my head. “Would you give your heart to find out? Can you do it? Please give your heart to find out. ”
How could I find out? I was working in a Fortune 500 company climbing the stairways to the stars. I was recruited right out of university (corporate head-hunters do that), and after two years working in the company, I knew I was being fast-tracked into management from my professional job in operations. Time never came to an end for me even while on vacation. Time was from where I was as a shit-hot engineer to achieving my ambition of running a top US corporation as CEO. I was torn between that and saving mankind. Which is more worthwhile? Can you answer that question if you were me then? One morning, my boss came by and was at the door of my office. There were match sticks, all laid out neatly in formation, on my table. I was in the middle of consulting the I Ching. Right then, I realized it was time to go. I couldn’t serve two masters anymore. I had become a weirdo. Perhaps it would be better if you expressed the desire in your words, if you fancy it.... What do I mean?
I refuse to accept the world as is. This is why my neighbor’s funeral affair is a pain in the butt, an annoyance that I have to dismiss in the manner I wave away requests from the store cashiers for donations to charities.
If I were Lao Tzu, I too would leave all the wisdom in my posts to you guys here, get on that buffalo and ride off into the Kun Lun mountains. |
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Death
Jul 18, 2022 15:50:31 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Jul 18, 2022 15:50:31 GMT -5
By 'saving mankind', do you mean that you want to experience a world of peace and harmony? Perhaps it would be better if you expressed the desire in your words, if you fancy it.... What do I mean?
I refuse to accept the world as is. This is why my neighbor’s funeral affair is a pain in the butt, an annoyance that I have to dismiss in the manner I wave away requests from the store cashiers for donations to charities.
If I were Lao Tzu, I too would leave all the wisdom in my posts to you guys here, get on that buffalo and ride off into the Kun Lun mountains. Okay... so what's the simplest way you can express the kind of world that you want? I don't like funerals either, only been to one in the last 16 years. I like the way that surfers sometimes handle a death in their community... www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTZsg4IcIh4 |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 9:56:35 GMT -5
Post by ouroboros on Jul 19, 2022 9:56:35 GMT -5
To be fair I posed 'whether some things may never change' as a question before that, and he said he didn't see that as being the case. So he thinks wholesale change is a possibility. I'm just not understanding how he proposes about achieving that. Instigating it, or at least accelerating it. It must be done collectively as he sees it, and he seems to want it done now for his peace of mind. I don't think it's going to come by understanding and spreading JK's teachings. These conversations always conjure the adage 'be the change you want to see in the world'. I'm not sure dropping out and concentrating on boats and fine dining is the answer either. Tbh I'm not exactly sure where he's coming from yet, so just probing. Dropping out was not a matter of choice; neither is my lifestyle. (I have nothing to do with spreading the Krishnamurti teaching. I have been thrown out and banned from every Krishnamurti discussion forum.) I have always lived well. It was consistent with my drive to be at the top of my game in school, in my profession, and my personal life. Anyway, after Krishnamurti got under my skin, I looked East, delving into Buddhism, Hinduism, and Chinese philosophy to get a better grip on the stuff his inane spiritual speak was alluding to. One thing I had in common with Krishnamurti was a lament on the sorry state of mankind. He called for a fundamental change clouded in a mysticism that appealed to spiritualist types. My take was different. I couldn’t understand why creatures like me with such amazing capability at technological achievements have to live like cretins suffering poverty and mired in endless conflict. (And zazeniac – someone who cared for the well-being of earthworms - said that war is necessary!) Krishnamurti’s challenge would ring constantly in my head. “Would you give your heart to find out? Can you do it? Please give your heart to find out. ”
How could I find out? I was working in a Fortune 500 company climbing the stairways to the stars. I was recruited right out of university (corporate head-hunters do that), and after two years working in the company, I knew I was being fast-tracked into management from my professional job in operations. Time never came to an end for me even while on vacation. Time was from where I was as a shit-hot engineer to achieving my ambition of running a top US corporation as CEO. I was torn between that and saving mankind. Which is more worthwhile? Can you answer that question if you were me then? One morning, my boss came by and was at the door of my office. There were match sticks, all laid out neatly in formation, on my table. I was in the middle of consulting the I Ching. Right then, I realized it was time to go. I couldn’t serve two masters anymore. I had become a weirdo. I don't have a problem with dropping out of the rat-race, especially if you have the opportunity and means to do so. I'm also relatively privileged and with a few lifestyle changes was able to do the same. Folks talk about being able to operate in the eye of the storm etc, which is fine, but I think it's also useful to be able to create the space to focus more on what's really important, (Peace, the bigger picture etc) without unecessary distractions. Most never do. I don't know what you mean by not a matter of choice, but these sort of major lifestyle changes are often precipitated by a sense of disillusionment with the status quo, a nagging sense of unfulfillment and perhaps a shift in priorities. Eventually, carrying on as before becomes nigh on impossible. The way I see it, the drive you speak of comes often as a result of early conditioning, both social and familial. That's to say it's literally drummed into us by the system from an early age. More broadly though it can be said to be kammic in nature. I mean not everyone is born into that, and not even all those who are, respond to it strongly. My own drive in that particular respect was always somewhat tempered. In any event, it's natural that the shift can be challenging, to say the least. Both for ourselves and those close to us, who really don't understand. Consciously they most likely won't be able to relate at all, and may genuinely worry for our wellbeing. On some deeper level they may find it unsettling because it challenges their own values and complacency. As I say, I can relate to all that. |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 10:21:42 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 19, 2022 10:21:42 GMT -5
What do I mean?
I refuse to accept the world as is. This is why my neighbor’s funeral affair is a pain in the butt, an annoyance that I have to dismiss in the manner I wave away requests from the store cashiers for donations to charities.
If I were Lao Tzu, I too would leave all the wisdom in my posts to you guys here, get on that buffalo and ride off into the Kun Lun mountains. Okay... so what's the simplest way you can express the kind of world that you want? I don't like funerals either, only been to one in the last 16 years. I like the way that surfers sometimes handle a death in their community... www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTZsg4IcIh4They say Andy Irons was killed by a mental disease. I don't believe it, do you? Each of us, the person, is an incarnation of the human consciousness. The consciousness can abort its incarnations. Andy was one of its abortions. I am using conventional language figuratively. Please don’t paint pictures in your mind and go crazy. Being weird as we are, is quite enough.
Self-destructive inclinations leading to suicides are abortions of the human consciousness. You kill yourself when life has become unviable. Some people seemingly having everything going their way also go off the rails: Howard Hughes, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, and my favorite guy Anthony Bourdain. This is why, fixing the deplorable state of human existence is critical.
The world that I want is for every incarnation (you, me, laughter, ouroboros, etc.) to live in harmony with each other. It’s not unattainable. As a matter of fact, we are all already there. Yesterday, I was at the dentist and the hygienist was wonderful at cleaning my teeth. She spent her hour talking to me while doing her job. Her rapport with me gave me an insight into the world I want: everybody is me; each me in a different body and has the skill to scale and polish my teeth, give me a good haircut, massage my feet even. Humanity in one body can’t do that. Humanity is many bodies is a brilliant configuration! When one dies, we make another one. All we need to fix is to get every zazeniac to stop thinking that war is necessary. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 19, 2022 10:28:09 GMT -5
Okay, well that gives me a better understanding of where you are coming from with your assertion of that phrase. I'm still not sure of any widespread practical application for that. Other than that any real change begins with clear seeing. You are exactly right. Let me give you an idea of how difficult it is to see clearly. This is my take. Feel free to examine it and give me your take. We assume we perceive with our senses. Krishnamurti would ask, "How do you see a tree or your wife? Can you see your wife without the image, the past, the memory of hurts? See that tree without any movement of thought when the mind is completely still. Can you do it?" Can you? Can you even read these words in my post without any movement of thought? You won't be able to. They would be as unintelligible as كيف حالكم؟ .
What would your wife look like? I wonder. Krishnamurti was a dud as a teacher. No wonder Bohm couldn't understand him.
Sure. Regarding your "movement of thought", I've heard it said that all states begin in mind, and relate to that. I see it as being about the true depth and power of mind as much as anything. The lines do blur in deep meditative states such as NS, you will see the guys talking about. In Buddhism they talk in terms of six senses- the traditional five, with mind as the sixth: which would encompass that surface level thought, memory etc. I expect we could include various more deep-seated conditioning which we might classify as innate human nature/behaviour. Then perhaps even patterning deeper still that would govern basic coherency of experience. It's said that the Buddha was the master of metaphor, but even he could find no metaphor to sufficiently express how fast the mind moves. Anyway, each sense they classify as a type of consciousness, and as a whole I tend to talk about all that in terms of a process of perception. We can wonder what might remain [of the world] in its absence, it's an interesting question. Prior to all that even, we can talk about undifferentiated Awareness. For me clarity in the form of various realisations comes as a result of straddling those. Put your roots deep they say. And clarity affects experience. Can you perceive your wife without the use of the senses? It's tough to answer that, but I work on the basis there are higher immaterial states of being (or fine mind) that transcend the mundane. And as such, within which, some form of perception or awareness of the lower realms is possible. Ergo, sixth sense. What I can tell you is it's absolutely possible to look at another and see 'the One True face', and I have done so. Maybe that sound a bit cryptic. Some may have a reference. I think we can say quite confidently that most people are lost in their minds, and the world would likely be a better place if that were not the case. By that I mean those shallower aspects of mind to which you referred. I think higher states of being are possible, and come about quite naturally as a result of presence. Of being present. Perhaps analogous to your no-time state.  |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 11:10:06 GMT -5
Post by ouroboros on Jul 19, 2022 11:10:06 GMT -5
Sree, I wanted to ask whether you recall if you and I engaged briefly here, a ways back?
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 11:21:10 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 19, 2022 11:21:10 GMT -5
You are exactly right. Let me give you an idea of how difficult it is to see clearly. This is my take. Feel free to examine it and give me your take. We assume we perceive with our senses. Krishnamurti would ask, "How do you see a tree or your wife? Can you see your wife without the image, the past, the memory of hurts? See that tree without any movement of thought when the mind is completely still. Can you do it?" Can you? Can you even read these words in my post without any movement of thought? You won't be able to. They would be as unintelligible as كيف حالكم؟ .
What would your wife look like? I wonder. Krishnamurti was a dud as a teacher. No wonder Bohm couldn't understand him.
A copy-n-paste with minor edits: The Travelers and the Grapes(The parable that follows was originally composed by the greatest of all Sufi poets, Jalal ad-Din Rumi (d. 1273) and recounted by Idries Shah, the Grand Shaykh of Sadarna.) A Persian, a Turk, and Arab and a Greek were traveling to a distant land when they began arguing over how to spend the single coin they possessed among themselves. All four craved food, but the Persian wanted to spend the coin on angur; the Turk, on uzum; the Arab, on inab; and the Greek, on stafil. The argument became heated as each man insisted on having what he desired. A linguist passing by overheard their quarrel. “Give the coin to me,” he said. “I undertake to satisfy the desires of all of you.” Taking the coin, the linguist went to a nearby shop and bought four small bunches of grapes. He then returned to the men and gave them each a bunch. “This is my angur!” cried the Persian. “But this is what I call uzum,” replied the Turk. “You have bought me my inab,” the Arab said. “No! This in my language is stafil.” All of a sudden, the men realized that what each of them had desired was in fact the same thing, only they did not know how to express themselves to each other. The four travelers represent humanity in its search for an inner spiritual need it cannot define and which it expresses in different ways. The linguist is the Sufi, who enlightens humanity to the fact that what it seeks (via its religions), though called by different names, are in reality one identical thing. However — and this is the most important aspect of the parable — the linguist can offer the travelers only the grapes and nothing more. He cannot offer them wine, which is “the essence of the fruit” (aka, spirit). In other words, human beings cannot be given the secret of ultimate reality, for such KNOWledge cannot be shared, but must be experienced (aka, Realized) through an arduous inner journey toward self-annihilation (aka, SELF-Realization). As the transcendent Iranian poet, Saadi of Shiraz, wrote: "I am a dreamer who is mute, and the people are deaf. I am unable to say, and they are unable to hear." You like the story, don't you? Your story deflected the focus of my post. Dreamers are elitist bastards. They are the politicians, the ideologues who do the thinking for the deaf masses. Where do you put yourself? With the dreamers or the people?
Dreamers are also writers who cook up stories for people. I don't dream but I write. Where does that place me? |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 11:22:45 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 19, 2022 11:22:45 GMT -5
Sree, I wanted to ask whether you recall if you and I engaged briefly here, a ways back? I don't think so. Engaged on what topic? I am a recent member of this forum. Perhaps, on another forum? Which other forums do you use for discussion? Name me one. |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 11:44:49 GMT -5
Post by ouroboros on Jul 19, 2022 11:44:49 GMT -5
Sree, I wanted to ask whether you recall if you and I engaged briefly here, a ways back? I don't think so. Engaged on what topic? I am a recent member of this forum. Perhaps, on another forum? Which other forums do you use for discussion? Name me one. No I don't really engage on any other forums, it would have been here some years back. But not to worry, not important. |
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Death
Jul 19, 2022 12:36:36 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 19, 2022 12:36:36 GMT -5
Your glimpse is quite something. Its authenticity is unquestionable because it’s a personal experience. What we can discuss is the learning you have derived from it.
After reading it again a few times, I got a sense of why “death” seems to have an association. Your glimpse could be what those conscious final moments are as the body “gives up the ghost”. I think of Steve Jobs. He was reported (by those around him at his “death bed”) to have uttered “oh wow, oh wow” as he checked out.
Our consciousness is quite amazing. And when it goes “off track”, we get a glimpse of the extraordinary.
Why the sadness? I don't know. I might not have the same reaction today. It was many years ago, and as others have suggested it's better not to cling to or try to recreate anything. But at some point I hope to get some more insight. Interesting about Jobs. Saw a private message notification just now. Sorry for not replying earlier. I don't engage in private conversations.
I am an American. I have two passports: one American, and the other of another country. Dual citizenship is allowed by the US Government. In addition to the passport, Permanent Residency status can also be gotten if you have the money.
Getting another passport is not a big deal. Getting a stack of passports like Jason Bourne is something else.
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