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Death
Jul 14, 2022 22:01:25 GMT -5
Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 14, 2022 22:01:25 GMT -5
If I had to choose a favorite insect, I'd probably go with the dragonfly. Not because they hunt and eat anything they can get with there amazingly agile selves, but just because of their mesmerizing ways. I've spent hours watching them at watering holes, and look forward to every chance. Reading about their evolution and lifespans is amazing, too. For the sake of world peace, I will endeavor to become the bodhisattva of dragonflies, while the wifey is focused on sea turtles! 🤟🏽😇🤘🏽 You are hereby officially given the title of bodhisattva of dragonflies. I love them too. Never seen the little blue ones before. Thank you kindly, sir. I will not let the world down. I will observe, appreciate, and let awe arise as I witness the flights of consciousness in the forms of dragonflies from here on out. No judgments of their carnivorous ways, just gratitude. I feel confident we will get along and feel the timelessness together in the dance of eternity. Boom Shankar Boulinath!! Btw, you may be watching damselflies. Not sure. Doesn't really matter. |
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 7:05:57 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 15, 2022 7:05:57 GMT -5
It's really too bad you're not going to share that. Their loss. Funerals and wakes are for the living, not the dead. A story like that can help people more fully appreciate how blessed they were, which is, of course, how anyone who truly loved you when they were alive would want you to remember them. Exactly! And the living are all crazy.
Martha is not dead. The body - that was moving around and doing all the things it was doing - is dead. That body was called Martha just as yours is called laughter. Look, I don't want to make fun of people. If you want to bow to a Buddha statue, it's your business. Asking me to join you and bow to a block of stone is to compel me to affirm your sanity. You are not sane. Your feeling of loss comes from a consciousness that can kill and maim. Do you think that the mass shooter that you view as mentally ill is cut from a different cloth? Given the right circumstance, you would be him. He also can feel the kind of loss you are talking about. Different body, Same consciousness. You don't need to share in their feelings of loss or grief to feel compassion for them, and neither is it insane to feel loss at the passing of someone close. As I've already explained, pain is inevitable, but suffering, isn't.  The insanity is in the suffering.  |
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 8:35:41 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 15, 2022 8:35:41 GMT -5
Of course, it has. Do you know what "eternal" means? The word means "lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning". This is the conventional meaning. This is endless time.
The true meaning of "eternal" is timelessness. No time. It never was, never existed. It is an illusion. And the ending of that illusion is the state of nothingness. Death. Is this possible? The body is still there, right? As long as the body exists, time exists because the body goes on aging till it drops dead. But can time disappear while the body is still alive? This is real meditation, as Krishnamurti would say.
The ending of time, its disappearance when the consciousness is still operating and the bodily senses are acutely functioning, is possible. I am making a statement here. It is not a testimony of a fact. It would be a fact if I were experiencing that timeless state now and telling you: "andrew! time doesn't exist! I swear, this is it!" You might ask, "If you are so sure of yourself, why don't you take it to the top physicists at Princeton University?" Do you know why I won't? Those guys are incapable of processing what I have to say. I need to translate it into a mathematical language to enable them to grasp the concept of the timeless state. I would need to create an abstraction, a stick man, as Reefs would say. At any rate, those scientists wouldn't listen to weirdos like me, and you, and ouroboros.
Okay. Yes. (I agree those scientists are unlikely to listen to weirdos like me (and you and others here). Do you think one can experience some of 'in time' state, and some of the 'no time' state simultaneously?
I like the way you talk, sort of reminds me just a little bit of Hercule Poirot  That's a good thing. Simultaneously? I understand where you are coming from. It is either or. It can never be simultaneous; and yet, both states are natural experiences of life. What is not natural is being locked 24/7 in the 'in time' state. It is stressful. This is why there is so much mental illness, psychosomatic diseases, social violence, mass shootings, wars. This is my theory.
‘In time’ state is our 'normal state' of awareness which is time-bound. No weirdos here.
‘No time’ state is where the weirdos are. You and I and ouroboros qualify as weirdos because we can grasp the idea of ‘no time’, and entertain the possibility of this state of consciousness even though we are not in that state. Do you follow? This is why we can engage in conversation on this topic either out of curiosity or, in my case, have the conviction that ‘no time’ is an attainable, natural, phenomenal condition of harmony. It is a state of resonance when consciousness is at the natural frequency of nature.
Conviction, mind you, is not accepted belief without verifiable proof. This means that I have a strong hunch, the kind prospectors have when they are looking for gold, the mother lode; scientists on the verge of making breakthroughs; or market speculators going all in on a bet of a lifetime the way Soros shorted the British pound. If my conviction bears fruit, then the ‘no time’ state can be brought on and experienced by anyone in the real world.
Accepting the belief in a ‘no time’ state as a matter of fact, regardless of the condition of the world, is where the other weirdos are. Their ‘no time’ state is essentially a personal belief, a psychological condition. I don’t want to go there. |
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 16:16:33 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Jul 15, 2022 16:16:33 GMT -5
Okay. Yes. (I agree those scientists are unlikely to listen to weirdos like me (and you and others here). Do you think one can experience some of 'in time' state, and some of the 'no time' state simultaneously?
I like the way you talk, sort of reminds me just a little bit of Hercule Poirot That's a good thing. Simultaneously? I understand where you are coming from. It is either or. It can never be simultaneous; and yet, both states are natural experiences of life. What is not natural is being locked 24/7 in the 'in time' state. It is stressful. This is why there is so much mental illness, psychosomatic diseases, social violence, mass shootings, wars. This is my theory.
‘In time’ state is our 'normal state' of awareness which is time-bound. No weirdos here.
‘No time’ state is where the weirdos are. You and I and ouroboros qualify as weirdos because we can grasp the idea of ‘no time’, and entertain the possibility of this state of consciousness even though we are not in that state. Do you follow? This is why we can engage in conversation on this topic either out of curiosity or, in my case, have the conviction that ‘no time’ is an attainable, natural, phenomenal condition of harmony. It is a state of resonance when consciousness is at the natural frequency of nature. Conviction, mind you, is not accepted belief without verifiable proof. This means that I have a strong hunch, the kind prospectors have when they are looking for gold, the mother lode; scientists on the verge of making breakthroughs; or market speculators going all in on a bet of a lifetime the way Soros shorted the British pound. If my conviction bears fruit, then the ‘no time’ state can be brought on and experienced by anyone in the real world.
Accepting the belief in a ‘no time’ state as a matter of fact, regardless of the condition of the world, is where the other weirdos are. Their ‘no time’ state is essentially a personal belief, a psychological condition. I don’t want to go there. In your view, how does being in the 'no time' state periodically, change us? How/why do you think it changes mental illness, psychosomatic disease, social violence, mass shootings, wars? I don't disagree with you, but am interested in your view. Though to be clear, my view is that most humans, in their waking state, have one and a half feet in the 'in time' state and half a foot in the 'no time' state. So my view is that most humans are out of balance. |
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 21:39:32 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 15, 2022 21:39:32 GMT -5
Why won't you buy my story about taxes? I was on another discussion forum and a guy there said I was lying and did not believe that I have two passports. Do I come across as a braggart because I am not a typical member of a spiritual forum, someone in your demographic? Reefs thinks I have never seen the inside of a university classroom. I bet you don't believe that I have seen the inside of an offshore private bank holding my stash of cash either. But that's ok. I have not come here to sell myself. My personal circumstance is a matter of fact that comes out in the course of candid discussion. I still remember those early days when I was swept away by Krishnamurti who was long dead by then. I drove up to Ojai and was received by the top honchos running the Krishnamurti Foundation of America. I went without a prior appointment; and yet, I was shown around the school and was given a copy of their annual accounts when I asked for a look at it. Why would they do that? Was it because I was passionately interested in the teaching or was it because I went there in a $70,000 BMW 745i? The spiritual world is full of decrepit minds starting with the Pope and the Dalai Lama. If we want to change the world, we must storm it with the psychic power of a thousand Force 5 hurricanes. China will not invade Taiwan. If the US doesn't stop messing around with China the way we tried wrecking Hong Kong by agitating unrest among the Chinese, Taiwan will be blockaded and US warships will be sunk in the South China Sea. I guarantee it.
This is a spiritual forum. Geopolitics is very much a part of our reality. But we must stay away from political arguments. We need solutions of the spiritual kind.
Why do you think The Dalai Lama has a decrepit mind? Seriously.
Seriously? Has he ever said anything original? He laughs. Ask him a serious question and he laughs. He is the Kamala Harris of Buddhism.
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 21:50:03 GMT -5
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 15, 2022 21:50:03 GMT -5
Why do you think The Dalai Lama has a decrepit mind? Seriously. Seriously? Has he ever said anything original? He laughs. Ask him a serious question and he laughs. He is the Kamala Harris of Buddhism.
That's his public persona. |
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Death
Jul 15, 2022 21:55:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2022 21:55:10 GMT -5
Why do you think The Dalai Lama has a decrepit mind? Seriously.
Seriously? Has he ever said anything original? He laughs. Ask him a serious question and he laughs. He is the Kamala Harris of Buddhism.
That's because" Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. |
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Post by sree on Jul 15, 2022 22:45:10 GMT -5
Simultaneously? I understand where you are coming from. It is either or. It can never be simultaneous; and yet, both states are natural experiences of life. What is not natural is being locked 24/7 in the 'in time' state. It is stressful. This is why there is so much mental illness, psychosomatic diseases, social violence, mass shootings, wars. This is my theory.
‘In time’ state is our 'normal state' of awareness which is time-bound. No weirdos here.
‘No time’ state is where the weirdos are. You and I and ouroboros qualify as weirdos because we can grasp the idea of ‘no time’, and entertain the possibility of this state of consciousness even though we are not in that state. Do you follow? This is why we can engage in conversation on this topic either out of curiosity or, in my case, have the conviction that ‘no time’ is an attainable, natural, phenomenal condition of harmony. It is a state of resonance when consciousness is at the natural frequency of nature. Conviction, mind you, is not accepted belief without verifiable proof. This means that I have a strong hunch, the kind prospectors have when they are looking for gold, the mother lode; scientists on the verge of making breakthroughs; or market speculators going all in on a bet of a lifetime the way Soros shorted the British pound. If my conviction bears fruit, then the ‘no time’ state can be brought on and experienced by anyone in the real world.
Accepting the belief in a ‘no time’ state as a matter of fact, regardless of the condition of the world, is where the other weirdos are. Their ‘no time’ state is essentially a personal belief, a psychological condition. I don’t want to go there. In your view, how does being in the 'no time' state periodically, change us? How/why do you think it changes mental illness, psychosomatic disease, social violence, mass shootings, wars? I don't disagree with you, but am interested in your view. Though to be clear, my view is that most humans, in their waking state, have one and a half feet in the 'in time' state and half a foot in the 'no time' state. So my view is that most humans are out of balance. There is no "us", andrew. Human consciousness is all there is. Let me back up on this statement. I hate to come on like a weirdo when I get into spiritual speak. Conventional language is all I have. I need to watch it.
We live in the "in time' state because our consciousness responds to the need to live the way we do: get up in the morning to the alarm clock buzzing, get into the freeway before rush hour, and slip into your parking bay at the office at least an hour before the losers come in. Once you get into the office it is non-stop activity till it is way past 5 pm. If you are not getting a kick out of your job, it won't be long before you get kicked out of it. If you like the pace, then you are fine and it invigorates you. Most people can't hack it. The stress is debilitating. Not just from the job but fear of losing that stinking job. At home, the anxiety eats into you every time you look at the wife, the kids, the money you need to earn to make payments on that twenty-year mortgage and keep the roof over their heads and food on the table. It won't be long before you start popping pills to keep those co-morbidities at bay.
The 'no time' state never happens in a conventional life situation described above. Perhaps, on vacation, for a brief moment if ever. It usually never changes us. If it does, it could be somewhat like that for a fella I met in Port Dickson, Malaysia. He was a yachtie who just sailed in with Heller, his German partmer when I was at the Admiral Cove marina resort. Bob was a dentist with a practice in Colorado. He told me that he took up sailing after his friend invited him to join him on a two-week sailing trip. After those two weeks, he couldn't recover from his 'no time' state at sea. When he got back to his office, his mail was all piled up on his desk and he felt that he just couldn't go back to his old life as a dentist. He sold his practice, bought a boat, and went sailing all over the world after that. The last time I got news of Bob was on the internet. A sailing club reported that Bob and Heller were accosted by pirates in the Caribbean. Heller said Bob was pistol-whipped. She thought the pirates were going to kill him.
Sorry for rambling. I was in the 'no time' state.
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Death
Jul 16, 2022 2:15:48 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Jul 16, 2022 2:15:48 GMT -5
In your view, how does being in the 'no time' state periodically, change us? How/why do you think it changes mental illness, psychosomatic disease, social violence, mass shootings, wars? I don't disagree with you, but am interested in your view. Though to be clear, my view is that most humans, in their waking state, have one and a half feet in the 'in time' state and half a foot in the 'no time' state. So my view is that most humans are out of balance. There is no "us", andrew. Human consciousness is all there is. Let me back up on this statement. I hate to come on like a weirdo when I get into spiritual speak. Conventional language is all I have. I need to watch it. We live in the "in time' state because our consciousness responds to the need to live the way we do: get up in the morning to the alarm clock buzzing, get into the freeway before rush hour, and slip into your parking bay at the office at least an hour before the losers come in. Once you get into the office it is non-stop activity till it is way past 5 pm. If you are not getting a kick out of your job, it won't be long before you get kicked out of it. If you like the pace, then you are fine and it invigorates you. Most people can't hack it. The stress is debilitating. Not just from the job but fear of losing that stinking job. At home, the anxiety eats into you every time you look at the wife, the kids, the money you need to earn to make payments on that twenty-year mortgage and keep the roof over their heads and food on the table. It won't be long before you start popping pills to keep those co-morbidities at bay.
The 'no time' state never happens in a conventional life situation described above. Perhaps, on vacation, for a brief moment if ever. It usually never changes us. If it does, it could be somewhat like that for a fella I met in Port Dickson, Malaysia. He was a yachtie who just sailed in with Heller, his German partmer when I was at the Admiral Cove marina resort. Bob was a dentist with a practice in Colorado. He told me that he took up sailing after his friend invited him to join him on a two-week sailing trip. After those two weeks, he couldn't recover from his 'no time' state at sea. When he got back to his office, his mail was all piled up on his desk and he felt that he just couldn't go back to his old life as a dentist. He sold his practice, bought a boat, and went sailing all over the world after that. The last time I got news of Bob was on the internet. A sailing club reported that Bob and Heller were accosted by pirates in the Caribbean. Heller said Bob was pistol-whipped. She thought the pirates were going to kill him. Sorry for rambling. I was in the 'no time' state.
no probs, it's easy for me to relate to the story, I have lived an unconventional life for many years. Me and my wife joke with people that we are terrible at 'adulting'! So maybe being in the 'no time' state can change our values and priorities? It can change what matters within human consciousness? Is that a reasonable explanation? |
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Post by sree on Jul 16, 2022 14:02:23 GMT -5
There is no "us", andrew. Human consciousness is all there is. Let me back up on this statement. I hate to come on like a weirdo when I get into spiritual speak. Conventional language is all I have. I need to watch it. We live in the "in time' state because our consciousness responds to the need to live the way we do: get up in the morning to the alarm clock buzzing, get into the freeway before rush hour, and slip into your parking bay at the office at least an hour before the losers come in. Once you get into the office it is non-stop activity till it is way past 5 pm. If you are not getting a kick out of your job, it won't be long before you get kicked out of it. If you like the pace, then you are fine and it invigorates you. Most people can't hack it. The stress is debilitating. Not just from the job but fear of losing that stinking job. At home, the anxiety eats into you every time you look at the wife, the kids, the money you need to earn to make payments on that twenty-year mortgage and keep the roof over their heads and food on the table. It won't be long before you start popping pills to keep those co-morbidities at bay.
The 'no time' state never happens in a conventional life situation described above. Perhaps, on vacation, for a brief moment if ever. It usually never changes us. If it does, it could be somewhat like that for a fella I met in Port Dickson, Malaysia. He was a yachtie who just sailed in with Heller, his German partmer when I was at the Admiral Cove marina resort. Bob was a dentist with a practice in Colorado. He told me that he took up sailing after his friend invited him to join him on a two-week sailing trip. After those two weeks, he couldn't recover from his 'no time' state at sea. When he got back to his office, his mail was all piled up on his desk and he felt that he just couldn't go back to his old life as a dentist. He sold his practice, bought a boat, and went sailing all over the world after that. The last time I got news of Bob was on the internet. A sailing club reported that Bob and Heller were accosted by pirates in the Caribbean. Heller said Bob was pistol-whipped. She thought the pirates were going to kill him. Sorry for rambling. I was in the 'no time' state.
no probs, it's easy for me to relate to the story, I have lived an unconventional life for many years. Me and my wife joke with people that we are terrible at 'adulting'! So maybe being in the 'no time' state can change our values and priorities? It can change what matters within human consciousness? Is that a reasonable explanation? It’s a great explanation. And you ask effective questions. The kind that sets my “third eye” up to focus with the penetration capability of a diamond drill cutting through glass. The ordinary drill bit of the conventional mind can’t cut through and will crack the glass. This is why spiritual inquiry of the conventional mind goes nowhere. Once the glass breaks, the target illusion it is reflecting disappears and the inquirer is back in Maya. Do you follow? You’ve got to be able to “step out” of the stream of the conditioned consciousness in which mankind lives, as Krishnamurti phrased it. And to do that, your attention must cut through the illusion the way a sharp samurai sword slices through your neck with lightning speed, and you won’t know it till your head hits the floor.
Sorry for the gory imagery. Krishnamurti used poetic language to draw us there. Didn’t work. It only created a slew of poetic weirdos. I prefer shock tactics.
I can’t vouch for the handiwork of the “no time” state. My experiences of it - if it is even “no time” – were too fleeting for close examination. By the time I sensed a shift in consciousness, it was gone. The unconventional life, however, and its impact on me, in terms of changed values and priorities, is worth discussing. For me, it all began quite drastically after reading a few Krishnamurti books. I couldn’t come to terms with his insistence on the ‘no time’ state in which the self is not. I wasn’t interested in spirituality, but I was curious about his description of his ‘no time’ experiences. He didn’t come across as a whacko, the kind who disses life in the real world and swears by the existence of the astral plane where no selves dwell. If I were into that sort of nonsense, I would have preferred something “sane” such as making the sign of the cross like Joe Biden does, and devoted my life to Jesus. Or be like satch, get me a good Thai wife whose Buddhism-infused culture grounds her in a mind-calming mysticism. “Mai pen rai”.
I don’t know what your unconventional life amounts to. Mine is one free of personal relationships and cut off from the economic system. I neither work nor have to work for a living. I am free to go live in any country in the world, and I take advantage of that to become a “visitor” and not a part of any society here in the US or abroad. This sets me apart from the conventional flow of life that conditions consciousness. This has enabled me to see Americans from the outside of my cultural skin. One thing I cannot free myself from is the financial system. I need money the way my body needs air. I have practically stepped out of the world in which mankind lives. This is why attending my neighbor’s funeral affair for Martha tomorrow is a no-no for me. My priorities and values have indeed changed. I resort to telling lies. I have cooked up an excuse: Covid self-isolation from public gatherings for health reasons. |
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Death
Jul 16, 2022 15:55:47 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 16, 2022 15:55:47 GMT -5
Seriously? Has he ever said anything original? He laughs. Ask him a serious question and he laughs. He is the Kamala Harris of Buddhism.
That's because" Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes reflects an attitude. Do you see yourself as a blip in the evolution of the universe, a grain of sand on the beach? How you ended up where you are is not different from a stain left on the seat of someone's pants?
Come on, satch. You don't really believe that Old Testament mind-shaping propaganda, do you? Granted, there is not much you can do about the human situation where you are at. Neither can the earthworms change their status quo in my garden. But there is a vitality to life in the here and now that cannot be denied.
What are you drinking there? Singha or Chang? Do you know that I went to school in Scotland? Strathclyde, Glasgow. I worked in a bar on Saturday nights sloshing bitters and half bitters all night long. The British pub. Do you miss it?
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Post by andrew on Jul 16, 2022 16:08:50 GMT -5
no probs, it's easy for me to relate to the story, I have lived an unconventional life for many years. Me and my wife joke with people that we are terrible at 'adulting'! So maybe being in the 'no time' state can change our values and priorities? It can change what matters within human consciousness? Is that a reasonable explanation? It’s a great explanation. And you ask effective questions. The kind that sets my “third eye” up to focus with the penetration capability of a diamond drill cutting through glass. The ordinary drill bit of the conventional mind can’t cut through and will crack the glass. This is why spiritual inquiry of the conventional mind goes nowhere. Once the glass breaks, the target illusion it is reflecting disappears and the inquirer is back in Maya. Do you follow? You’ve got to be able to “step out” of the stream of the conditioned consciousness in which mankind lives, as Krishnamurti phrased it. And to do that, your attention must cut through the illusion the way a sharp samurai sword slices through your neck with lightning speed, and you won’t know it till your head hits the floor. Sorry for the gory imagery. Krishnamurti used poetic language to draw us there. Didn’t work. It only created a slew of poetic weirdos. I prefer shock tactics.
I can’t vouch for the handiwork of the “no time” state. My experiences of it - if it is even “no time” – were too fleeting for close examination. By the time I sensed a shift in consciousness, it was gone. The unconventional life, however, and its impact on me, in terms of changed values and priorities, is worth discussing. For me, it all began quite drastically after reading a few Krishnamurti books. I couldn’t come to terms with his insistence on the ‘no time’ state in which the self is not. I wasn’t interested in spirituality, but I was curious about his description of his ‘no time’ experiences. He didn’t come across as a whacko, the kind who disses life in the real world and swears by the existence of the astral plane where no selves dwell. If I were into that sort of nonsense, I would have preferred something “sane” such as making the sign of the cross like Joe Biden does, and devoted my life to Jesus. Or be like satch, get me a good Thai wife whose Buddhism-infused culture grounds her in a mind-calming mysticism. “Mai pen rai”.
I don’t know what your unconventional life amounts to. Mine is one free of personal relationships and cut off from the economic system. I neither work nor have to work for a living. I am free to go live in any country in the world, and I take advantage of that to become a “visitor” and not a part of any society here in the US or abroad. This sets me apart from the conventional flow of life that conditions consciousness. This has enabled me to see Americans from the outside of my cultural skin. One thing I cannot free myself from is the financial system. I need money the way my body needs air. I have practically stepped out of the world in which mankind lives. This is why attending my neighbor’s funeral affair for Martha tomorrow is a no-no for me. My priorities and values have indeed changed. I resort to telling lies. I have cooked up an excuse: Covid self-isolation from public gatherings for health reasons. I don't want to go into too many details, but I spent the last 8 years or so house sitting around my country (UK). For a long time it enabled me (and my family) to live on the peripheries of society. Homeless and yet still taken care of. I even felt the animals we looked after, were actually taking care of us. There was some stress at times, usually involving money. I now have a house, and I like it, though I note that it ties me back into bureaucracy, and I find that cumbersome and tiresome. Paying bills is a chore, and I don't think I even want it to be easy. If it was easy, well then I'd be someone that was happy to be tied into the bureaucracy. The desire for movement and travel is building again, and I suspect that there will be a change in my life later this year. At the moment, I haven't had a particular medical procedure which would enable me to travel more freely, though this isn't so much on principle, as it is a basic sense of just not wanting it. 15 or so years ago, the movement to participate in many society rituals dissolved. I didn't experience this as a choice, at the time. when I was asked to participate in these rituals and I said 'no'. It wasn't so much that I didn't want to, as much as I couldn't. Weddings became a big problem for me. In my early 30s, a time when some of my oldest friends were getting married, and I couldn't bear the idea of attending. It felt physically impossible. I was actually pretty honest with them, and I think they concluded that I was either a) mad, or b) I had joined a cult. It really might have been better if I had lied. On the plus side, over the years, their expectations of me have changed. They still see me as a bit mad, but they no longer expect me to do things that 'normal people' do. The way I see it is that my priorities and values had changed, but this happened at a more holistic deeper level, before it did my conscious mind. At the time, my conscious mind was probably more inclined to say 'go to the wedding!' But my physicality wasn't on board. It was around that time that I learned the limitations around my capacity to 'choose'. It was almost as if my conscious mind had to catch up on the deeper changes that had been happening. 15 years on there's greater alignment, though there can still be a little conflict occasionally. Ironically, I'm less opposed to a white lie now, than I was then. At the time, honesty was perhaps a bit of a principle, whereas now I'm more likely to consider what I feel would be easier for the other people involved. |
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Jul 16, 2022 16:13:17 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 16, 2022 16:13:17 GMT -5
Seriously? Has he ever said anything original? He laughs. Ask him a serious question and he laughs. He is the Kamala Harris of Buddhism. That's his public persona. Do you have a public persona also? This is a mask one puts on and hides behind, isn't it?
Elvis Presley was very much into spirituality. Unhappiness with life killed him. In one of his biographies, he was reported to have complained about his public persona. It was something that his fans related with. It was not him.
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Jul 16, 2022 19:42:27 GMT -5
Post by sree on Jul 16, 2022 19:42:27 GMT -5
I think you are one smart guy. This is not a compliment but can be a statement of fact. My fact. I have been mulling over what you said above. I agree with your views on all points except believing that things will never change. Things never changed for Krishnamurti despite his life-long urging for change in human consciousness, that's for sure. Our geopolitical situation seems to be worsening. Americans are getting crazy. At the fundamental level, as a human being, there is no escape. Personally, I have been plotting for a way out. If Rome burns, I need to be in Sicily. Do you know what I mean?
We plot all the time to escape suffering. And this is why our consciousness has become our prison. "Can suffering end?" asked Krishnamurti. End it, he says. But there is no how, no way to do it, no method, no path, and - worse of all - no time to do it. The ending of suffering has to come about instantly! Death is the key, he said. Die to the self, the "me", die to everything that thought has put together.
Look, are you on board with this? I can't do this alone. I need brain power. But - as Krishnamurti said - we are all fragmented. Each of us who had listened to his teaching has become a light to himself. Like fireflies lighting up my garden, the enlightened ones fly their own separate ways. Unless we work together, we will not generate the power to break the karma.
In a TED talk I watched the other day, the speaker pointed out that no one has ever seen two chimps carrying a log to build a bridge across a stream. Chimps don't seem to have the idea of cooperative effort. We are no better than a bunch of monkeys when it comes to liberating ourselves from suffering.
What do you think? Are you really a smart guy or just a clever chimp?
Regarding your last question, I seem to be in the minority here, insofar as I don't really do 'what I am'. And I don't expect to be changing the world either, at least this time around. You might think that’s defeatist, but I consider myself a realist. I'm still working through some stuff.I'm not really drawn to JK, but wanted to mention that some of your discourse on the forum conjures a quandary I've seen raised, about personal versus collective enlightenment. One school promotes and focuses on the idea of personal liberation. Another posits there can be no true and lasting Peace while beings in the world continue to suffer, aka the role of the bodhisattva. Thus, the role is to delay the culmination of personal liberation (death and the end of rebirth) and try to improve the world at large. So another disconnect I suppose. Both positions raise myriad questions, but it's why I asked whether you consider some things would never change. I mean, if that were the case the role would pretty much be moot, right. Or at least perpetual. Society has a tough balance to strike between the desires of the individuated and the good of the collective. It's a tough gig, so it makes sense any improvement is slow. For me, society seems to have lurched from the pitfalls of religion to the pitfalls of secularism in recent times. Although there's still a lot of both. But perhaps in time it may settle between those by embracing the spiritual. I say, whether it knows it or not, science is already grappling with the prospect. Are you aware that we are a "movement of thought"? I am using Krishnamurti lingo here the way truckers converse in their jargon on the CB radio. I consider us a sub-culture regardless of this notion among folks here that we are at the cutting edge of human learning. "Enlightenment" is not fried chicken, something any human being can bite into and universally share the experience. Do you follow? If it cannot be universally comprehensible or shared, like air or water, then it is special interest bs.
I am not a Krishnamurti aficionado. Bohm was not a spiritualist. He was a physicist. I share Bohm's fascination with Krishnamurti. We can learn even from a leaf, he said. I agree. Krishnamurti's association with Theosophy doesn't deter me from examining his call for inquiry. I am here among you guys but I am not one of you. I hope you will discuss with me without prejudice.
Changing the world is not what we think it entails. As I said, we are nothing more than a movement of thought.
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Death
Jul 16, 2022 19:52:35 GMT -5
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 16, 2022 19:52:35 GMT -5
Regarding your last question, I seem to be in the minority here, insofar as I don't really do 'what I am'. And I don't expect to be changing the world either, at least this time around. You might think that’s defeatist, but I consider myself a realist. I'm still working through some stuff.I'm not really drawn to JK, but wanted to mention that some of your discourse on the forum conjures a quandary I've seen raised, about personal versus collective enlightenment. One school promotes and focuses on the idea of personal liberation. Another posits there can be no true and lasting Peace while beings in the world continue to suffer, aka the role of the bodhisattva. Thus, the role is to delay the culmination of personal liberation (death and the end of rebirth) and try to improve the world at large. So another disconnect I suppose. Both positions raise myriad questions, but it's why I asked whether you consider some things would never change. I mean, if that were the case the role would pretty much be moot, right. Or at least perpetual. Society has a tough balance to strike between the desires of the individuated and the good of the collective. It's a tough gig, so it makes sense any improvement is slow. For me, society seems to have lurched from the pitfalls of religion to the pitfalls of secularism in recent times. Although there's still a lot of both. But perhaps in time it may settle between those by embracing the spiritual. I say, whether it knows it or not, science is already grappling with the prospect. Are you aware that we are a "movement of thought"? I am using Krishnamurti lingo here the way truckers converse in their jargon on the CB radio. I consider us a sub-culture regardless of this notion among folks here that we are at the cutting edge of human learning. "Enlightenment" is not fried chicken, something any human being can bite into and universally share the experience. Do you follow? If it cannot be universally comprehensible or shared, like air or water, then it is special interest bs.
I am not a Krishnamurti aficionado. Bohm was not a spiritualist. He was a physicist. I share Bohm's fascination with Krishnamurti. We can learn even from a leaf, he said. I agree. Krishnamurti's association with Theosophy doesn't deter me from examining his call for inquiry. I am here among you guys but I am not one of you. I hope you will discuss with me without prejudice.
Changing the world is not what we think it entails. As I said, we are nothing more than a movement of thought.
is just not so. |
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The insanity is in the suffering. 
That's a good thing. 
