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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 13:29:09 GMT -5
I don't know what this means either. You specifically said: I am enlightened. I don't need any advice. I don't want any help. So if those are the case, pilgrim decided to withdraw. So what are you asking about now? I don't do BS. zazeniac, in all honesty, straightened your asterisk out. huh, I have no clue what you're talking about, nor care I am here doing my thing, that is all, you do yours, thanks I asked a simple question, what does "can you help, anyone?" mean. Anyone includes pilgrim. If not, you could use more specificity. And don't say you don't know what I'm talking about, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 13:35:04 GMT -5
I asked a simple question, what does "can you help, anyone?" mean. anyone includes pilgrim. If not, you could use more specificity. it was a general call to the world dude, but thanks for chiming in A call for what? (Last post, I will not bother you anymore, now. Answer or not).
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 13:44:41 GMT -5
No I'm not saying that. All of that is valid in the relative field of existence as living personalities who are subject to birth and death. Last time I checked this was a forum about spirituality not about life experiences. The truth of what you are transcends all of those stories. You are trying to change the definition of spirituality by introducing culture and politics as well as your own particular view of life based on your unique personal experiences. I really don't know what you're doing here. This has to be said and stated unequivocally that what you are talking about has nothing to do with spirituality. You are more interested in the traditions and cultural settings of various religious belief systems. I mean really, your point about westerners not understanding Chinese philosophy has exactly what value in the scheme of things? And you seem to have taken everything away about what you consider to be authentic spirituality from a very complicated and flawed individual called Krishnamurti who wrote numerous books and confused a lot of people who we were trying to penetrate his labyrinth mind. I'm wondering if there is a bridge somewhere that can be crossed from your highly personalized account of life to something which transcends all of that. And what transcends all of that is not your boatman which is essentially just ego. Spirituality is not about life experiences? My life experiences has nothing to do with spirituality? If that is the case, then spirituality - as you understand it - can go to hell as far as I am concerned.
If the truth of what we are transcends stories of our life experiences, then that truth is irrelevant to our lives. No wonder the Buddhist and Hindu temples, Christian churches, muslim mosques cater to people involved with a spirituality that has no connection to their worldly lives. And you think that is the way and want it that way: separation of church from state. You are a Brit practicing Buddhism in Thailand. You would tell the Thais to keep the misery of their daily lives separate from spirituality? No politics, you say. Let the Thai King and Thai government be. Feed the monks and beggars to get better karma for yourselves.
sree, satch is 100% correct. Go back and read Jesus again. He said, You are in the midst of the Kingdom of heaven, but don't see it. He said Seek first the Kingdom of God. First, this word translated, in Hebrew means only. So Jesus said: Seek only the Kingdom of God, seek it alone. Jesus said also: My Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was the exact opposite of being into politics. Spirituality isn't about changing the world, it's about changing yourself. I've been trying to tell you this since day one you were here. If you want to change the world, go to a politics forum.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 13:50:36 GMT -5
Yes that is correct, the goal is to discover that truth is beyond all relative experiences. That may not be the goal of established dogmatic religion which includes Buddhism, but it is the goal of spirituality. It's spirituality 101. And I am not a practicing Buddhist. I just happen to live in Thailand. But in any case what is practiced here as Buddhism in the City Temple context has nothing to do with Buddhism. You might find authentic Buddhism in the Thai Forest tradition, but in the cities temples just cater for people on a community level and fulfill superstitious needs which seems to center mainly on gaining merit so they can have wealthier lives and perhaps win the lottery. Thats where you are, in the City Temple eating chicken and sticky rice.Quite right. City Temple is no different from the British Empire which still runs through your veins. Spirituality that does not deal with brutality and corruption in society is sneaky. It must have taken a lot of brutality to control three-quarters of the planet. Can the Thai Forest tradition transform the Devil? Can that brutal culture ever be eradicated? Spirituality that does not confront that question is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Let's do a practical test. If I were to knock your phone off the table in a Thai bar, it falls and breaks. I walk away. You call out to me and, after casting a glance at you and your broken phone on the floor, I walk away. What would you do?
This is Jesus 101, turn the other cheek. But my Christian mentor, who was a bad asterisk, who said in his Navy days there was no two men he couldn't handle in a fight, said he had only 4 cheeks, so the turning eventually ended.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 14:03:10 GMT -5
Did Krishnamurti ever advise what to do in the event of a broken phone? That's the kind of spirituality in action you hanker for isn't it? What is spirituality if it's not about life right? What does this kind of "what would you do if" question of which there are an infinite number, have to do with one's transcendent natural state? You and I are worlds apart on this subject. I don't think Krishnamurti gave advice on anything other than to kick the likes of Sri Ramana out the door. Be a light to yourself, he would say.
The "broken phone" question is the kind that Jesus was asked. Apparently, he never hesitated and gave answers that civilized barbarians in the western world. Don't knock religions at the City Temple and the Vatican. Life among humans was pretty brutal, more so than it is now in the west. The City Temple Buddhism you spit on requires no thinking for assimilation. Do as you are told. Adam did not. He listened to the Devil, the thinker. You are wrong on this. Krishnamurti was against rubber-stamp religion. You know he loved Buddha? You never even understood Krishnamurti, period. You know what Thomas Jefferson did? He made his own New Testament, he cut out the passages he liked concerning Jesus, threw out the rest. Today it's called The Jefferson Bible, you can buy one. You admittedly did this to Krishnamurti. You took a black Sharpie and marked out what you don't like about Krishnamurti. Jesus did comment on politics, he said: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's.
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 14:43:59 GMT -5
I don't think Krishnamurti gave advice on anything other than to kick the likes of Sri Ramana out the door. Be a light to yourself, he would say.
The "broken phone" question is the kind that Jesus was asked. Apparently, he never hesitated and gave answers that civilized barbarians in the western world. Don't knock religions at the City Temple and the Vatican. Life among humans was pretty brutal, more so than it is now in the west. The City Temple Buddhism you spit on requires no thinking for assimilation. Do as you are told. Adam did not. He listened to the Devil, the thinker. You are wrong on this. Krishnamurti was against rubber-stamp religion. You know he loved Buddha? You never even understood Krishnamurti, period. You know what Thomas Jefferson did? He made his own New Testament, he cut out the passages he liked concerning Jesus, threw out the rest. Today it's called The Jefferson Bible, you can buy one. You admittedly did this to Krishnamurti. You took a black Sharpie and marked out what you don't like about Krishnamurti. Jesus did comment on politics, he said: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. I am not done discussing your life experience yet. I guess we can branch off into something else you find important enough to thrash out.
Each of us is a window on reality, as Gopal said. My departure from Gopal's take is that each window is a viewpoint of an unique reality unconnected to every other except on technical matters. (Gopal's windows are all from the same guy: The Infinite.)
For example, your window on the wiring in the house shows the same thing as that seen by your co-workers; otherwise, your boss would have kicked some asses. If the people running our government functioned like the way electricians do on the job, the country would hum along like the power grid running China's high speed rail system.
Apart from the reality of our technical world where screw-ups matter to all, there is a world where rules-based order is imposed by the bully. In this world, you call the shots. If you say I am wrong on this or that, it's final. It's your wiring plan for the universe. The boatman has to be right on the money or he loses cred. The need to be right is a mental disease. I guess I must be the biggest sicko in this forum because I am certain that you all are dead wrong.
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 15:27:54 GMT -5
Spirituality is not about life experiences? My life experiences has nothing to do with spirituality? If that is the case, then spirituality - as you understand it - can go to hell as far as I am concerned.
If the truth of what we are transcends stories of our life experiences, then that truth is irrelevant to our lives. No wonder the Buddhist and Hindu temples, Christian churches, muslim mosques cater to people involved with a spirituality that has no connection to their worldly lives. And you think that is the way and want it that way: separation of church from state. You are a Brit practicing Buddhism in Thailand. You would tell the Thais to keep the misery of their daily lives separate from spirituality? No politics, you say. Let the Thai King and Thai government be. Feed the monks and beggars to get better karma for yourselves.
sree, satch is 100% correct. Go back and read Jesus again. He said, You are in the midst of the Kingdom of heaven, but don't see it. He said Seek first the Kingdom of God. First, this word translated, in Hebrew means only. So Jesus said: Seek only the Kingdom of God, seek it alone. Jesus said also: My Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was the exact opposite of being into politics. Spirituality isn't about changing the world, it's about changing yourself. I've been trying to tell you this since day one you were here. If you want to change the world, go to a politics forum. satch is a Brit estranged from his own culture for some reason. What does that tell you? Not you, specifically. You can't see the trees for the forest of political correctness. Spirituality has imbued me with a sixth sense: mind detector.
You are the world, and the world is you. This may be words uttered by Krishnamurti but it is the central teaching of ancient Chinese philosophy. The perfect man at the center of family and society. The western mind perceives things in isolation instead of viewing everything as an indivisible organic whole. You break everything into separate compartments: me, and you; private, and public; this world, and the next; politics, and spirituality. No wonder we are so screwed up.
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 15:44:39 GMT -5
Quite right. City Temple is no different from the British Empire which still runs through your veins. Spirituality that does not deal with brutality and corruption in society is sneaky. It must have taken a lot of brutality to control three-quarters of the planet. Can the Thai Forest tradition transform the Devil? Can that brutal culture ever be eradicated? Spirituality that does not confront that question is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Let's do a practical test. If I were to knock your phone off the table in a Thai bar, it falls and breaks. I walk away. You call out to me and, after casting a glance at you and your broken phone on the floor, I walk away. What would you do?
This is Jesus 101, turn the other cheek. But my Christian mentor, who was a bad asterisk, who said in his Navy days there was no two men he couldn't handle in a fight, said he had only 4 cheeks, so the turning eventually ended. That was my bait. I bet it triggered satch, as it has triggered you. In spiritual discourse, my object is not to seek light in the darkness, or find the path to the promised land. I hunt the boatman, the vampire lurking within. Whatever the response, the blood-sucker can be detected. Not the one in you, but the one in me. Same thing.
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 16:27:12 GMT -5
That was my bait. I bet it triggered satch, as it has triggered you. In spiritual discourse, my object is not to seek light in the darkness, or find the path to the promised land. I hunt the boatman, the vampire lurking within. Whatever the response, the blood-sucker can be detected. Not the one in you, but the one in me. Same thing. Whatever hotshot. I see phone, laugh. now go away. The breeze has arrived
heralding coming storm
damn mosquitos gone
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 16:42:38 GMT -5
The breeze has arrived heralding coming storm damn mosquitos gone
What is this crap? empathizing
with man cub
wanna be like you
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 16:49:17 GMT -5
You are wrong on this. Krishnamurti was against rubber-stamp religion. You know he loved Buddha? You never even understood Krishnamurti, period. You know what Thomas Jefferson did? He made his own New Testament, he cut out the passages he liked concerning Jesus, threw out the rest. Today it's called The Jefferson Bible, you can buy one. You admittedly did this to Krishnamurti. You took a black Sharpie and marked out what you don't like about Krishnamurti. Jesus did comment on politics, he said: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. I am not done discussing your life experience yet. I guess we can branch off into something else you find important enough to thrash out.
Each of us is a window on reality, as Gopal said. My departure from Gopal's take is that each window is a viewpoint of an unique reality unconnected to every other except on technical matters. (Gopal's windows are all from the same guy: The Infinite.)
For example, your window on the wiring in the house shows the same thing as that seen by your co-workers; otherwise, your boss would have kicked some asses. If the people running our government functioned like the way electricians do on the job, the country would hum along like the power grid running China's high speed rail system.
Apart from the reality of our technical world where screw-ups matter to all, there is a world where rules-based order is imposed by the bully. In this world, you call the shots. If you say I am wrong on this or that, it's final. It's your wiring plan for the universe. The boatman has to be right on the money or he loses cred. The need to be right is a mental disease. I guess I must be the biggest sicko in this forum because I am certain that you all are dead wrong.
Don't clump me with others. There is only a very few here that have a view remotely like my own. I am not a nondual view, without qualification. I am an outsider. I don't know what this means.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 16:51:40 GMT -5
sree, satch is 100% correct. Go back and read Jesus again. He said, You are in the midst of the Kingdom of heaven, but don't see it. He said Seek first the Kingdom of God. First, this word translated, in Hebrew means only. So Jesus said: Seek only the Kingdom of God, seek it alone. Jesus said also: My Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was the exact opposite of being into politics. Spirituality isn't about changing the world, it's about changing yourself. I've been trying to tell you this since day one you were here. If you want to change the world, go to a politics forum. satch is a Brit estranged from his own culture for some reason. What does that tell you? Not you, specifically. You can't see the trees for the forest of political correctness. Spirituality has imbued me with a sixth sense: mind detector. You are the world, and the world is you. This may be words uttered by Krishnamurti but it is the central teaching of ancient Chinese philosophy. The perfect man at the center of family and society. The western mind perceives things in isolation instead of viewing everything as an indivisible organic whole. You break everything into separate compartments: me, and you; private, and public; this world, and the next; politics, and spirituality. No wonder we are so screwed up.
You're a funny guy sree.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 16:53:48 GMT -5
You are wrong on this. Krishnamurti was against rubber-stamp religion. You know he loved Buddha? You never even understood Krishnamurti, period. You know what Thomas Jefferson did? He made his own New Testament, he cut out the passages he liked concerning Jesus, threw out the rest. Today it's called The Jefferson Bible, you can buy one. You admittedly did this to Krishnamurti. You took a black Sharpie and marked out what you don't like about Krishnamurti. Jesus did comment on politics, he said: Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. I am not done discussing your life experience yet. I guess we can branch off into something else you find important enough to thrash out.
Each of us is a window on reality, as Gopal said. My departure from Gopal's take is that each window is a viewpoint of an unique reality unconnected to every other except on technical matters. (Gopal's windows are all from the same guy: The Infinite.)
For example, your window on the wiring in the house shows the same thing as that seen by your co-workers; otherwise, your boss would have kicked some asses. If the people running our government functioned like the way electricians do on the job, the country would hum along like the power grid running China's high speed rail system.
Apart from the reality of our technical world where screw-ups matter to all, there is a world where rules-based order is imposed by the bully. In this world, you call the shots. If you say I am wrong on this or that, it's final. It's your wiring plan for the universe. The boatman has to be right on the money or he loses cred. The need to be right is a mental disease. I guess I must be the biggest sicko in this forum because I am certain that you all are dead wrong.
Ask anything, you are a good straight-man.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 17:02:22 GMT -5
This is Jesus 101, turn the other cheek. But my Christian mentor, who was a bad asterisk, who said in his Navy days there was no two men he couldn't handle in a fight, said he had only 4 cheeks, so the turning eventually ended. That was my bait. I bet it triggered satch, as it has triggered you. In spiritual discourse, my object is not to seek light in the darkness, or find the path to the promised land. I hunt the boatman, the vampire lurking within. Whatever the response, the blood-sucker can be detected. Not the one in you, but the one in me. Same thing. I don't do forums a lot, I'm not up on all the terminology. But isn't this called trolling? Too bad, I guess I am done with you. You are on a crazy suicide mission (metaphorically speaking). You will always find what you're looking for, it's unavoidable. Reefs is like a smart-bomb. You will lose with Reefs, every time. (But I will report on your mouse movie, haven't looked at yet).
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 17:25:09 GMT -5
I am not done discussing your life experience yet. I guess we can branch off into something else you find important enough to thrash out.
Each of us is a window on reality, as Gopal said. My departure from Gopal's take is that each window is a viewpoint of an unique reality unconnected to every other except on technical matters. (Gopal's windows are all from the same guy: The Infinite.)
For example, your window on the wiring in the house shows the same thing as that seen by your co-workers; otherwise, your boss would have kicked some asses. If the people running our government functioned like the way electricians do on the job, the country would hum along like the power grid running China's high speed rail system.
Apart from the reality of our technical world where screw-ups matter to all, there is a world where rules-based order is imposed by the bully. In this world, you call the shots. If you say I am wrong on this or that, it's final. It's your wiring plan for the universe. The boatman has to be right on the money or he loses cred. The need to be right is a mental disease. I guess I must be the biggest sicko in this forum because I am certain that you all are dead wrong.
Don't clump me with others. There is only a very few here that have a view remotely like my own. I am not a nondual view, without qualification. I am an outsider. I don't know what this means. What is it to be alone? Aloneness, as Krishnamurti called it. How do you know that being on your own is not to be cracked?
"We before me". This is a value of the American corporate workplace. You have to make it with the team. Those who can't are viewed as losers. They drift to the fringe of society or become "expats". It is easier to hide yourself in a foreign culture.
Being an outsider can mean one of two things: 1 Society cast you out, or 2 You cast society out.
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