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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 17:54:30 GMT -5
I am not done discussing your life experience yet. I guess we can branch off into something else you find important enough to thrash out.
Each of us is a window on reality, as Gopal said. My departure from Gopal's take is that each window is a viewpoint of an unique reality unconnected to every other except on technical matters. (Gopal's windows are all from the same guy: The Infinite.)
For example, your window on the wiring in the house shows the same thing as that seen by your co-workers; otherwise, your boss would have kicked some asses. If the people running our government functioned like the way electricians do on the job, the country would hum along like the power grid running China's high speed rail system.
Apart from the reality of our technical world where screw-ups matter to all, there is a world where rules-based order is imposed by the bully. In this world, you call the shots. If you say I am wrong on this or that, it's final. It's your wiring plan for the universe. The boatman has to be right on the money or he loses cred. The need to be right is a mental disease. I guess I must be the biggest sicko in this forum because I am certain that you all are dead wrong.
Ask anything, you are a good straight-man. I am hesitant to probe your experience with depression with you because it has to do with the ethical question of induced death of the body. The Swiss don't seem to have a problem with it. Nothing can be learned from discussion with a doctor. His is the guest position, as the Buddhist would call it. This ethical matter has to be examined from the host position. This is where you come in. I would like to look through your window in those moments when you were about to "jump". If you were disoriented by emotions, the presence of mind would not be there to enable you to to the right thing. If that was the case, then suicide would have been wrong, and you did the right thing. However, if it was fear that stopped you, then it was the intervention of survival instinct. In that case, nothing was resolved and you live to fight your demons another day.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 19:28:14 GMT -5
Don't clump me with others. There is only a very few here that have a view remotely like my own. I am not a nondual view, without qualification. I am an outsider. I don't know what this means. What is it to be alone? Aloneness, as Krishnamurti called it. How do you know that being on your own is not to be cracked?
"We before me". This is a value of the American corporate workplace. You have to make it with the team. Those who can't are viewed as losers. They drift to the fringe of society or become "expats". It is easier to hide yourself in a foreign culture. Being an outsider can mean one of two things: 1 Society cast you out, or 2 You cast society out.
I meant, here, on ST's forums. As you didn't get that, the rest of your post is irrelevant.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 28, 2022 19:50:14 GMT -5
Ask anything, you are a good straight-man. I am hesitant to probe your experience with depression with you because it has to do with the ethical question of induced death of the body. The Swiss don't seem to have a problem with it. Nothing can be learned from discussion with a doctor. His is the guest position, as the Buddhist would call it. This ethical matter has to be examined from the host position. This is where you come in. I would like to look through your window in those moments when you were about to "jump". If you were disoriented by emotions, the presence of mind would not be there to enable you to to the right thing. If that was the case, then suicide would have been wrong, and you did the right thing. However, if it was fear that stopped you, then it was the intervention of survival instinct. In that case, nothing was resolved and you live to fight your demons another day. I learned to live in time. When I had my kidney stone the pain came in waves, about a 20 minute cycle. The pain would get almost unbearably intense for a few minutes and then begin to subside. Now, this was the one and only time, so i didn't know it was a kidney stone until I saw a doctor. But I finally knew it was not going to get any better, so went to the hospital. But I experienced similar with the ~psychological~ pain. And I learned sometimes to literally just take one more step, just to get through to the next minute, and then redo. Sometimes only get through the next second, one step. I learned that if I could get through the next minute, the ~psychological~ pain would subside. (But the suicidal pain came years before the kidney stone pain). I was clear enough in my mind to ~just make it to the other side~ of the intense pain. I've seen many times advertised the program Roadrunner about Anthony Bourdain. I just happened to catch it last night, about 45 minutes into the program. So I decided to watch it. I know he was subject to depression years past. He was almost kind of always running to stay ahead of it. He found this new woman in his life, his wife even said, if she makes you happy, I will not stand in your way. He seemed very happy with his new lady. But then the tabloids gave pictures and said she was with another man. So his world just absolutely crashed. And you could see in film, he was planning his suicide. Hard to look at, as, afterwards, you saw back to the planning of his suicide. He was on Gopal's rollercoaster, he went to the depths, he lost his new woman, or he thought he did. He just gave up, life wasn't worth running to outlast the depression anymore. I found meaning, something worth the pain, something that outweighed the pain. And eventually the something took me out of the pain. But it's a sadder world without Anthony. For me, for years, death was nothing, easy. What's hard is life. But not anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 20:15:20 GMT -5
I am hesitant to probe your experience with depression with you because it has to do with the ethical question of induced death of the body. The Swiss don't seem to have a problem with it. Nothing can be learned from discussion with a doctor. His is the guest position, as the Buddhist would call it. This ethical matter has to be examined from the host position. This is where you come in. I would like to look through your window in those moments when you were about to "jump". If you were disoriented by emotions, the presence of mind would not be there to enable you to to the right thing. If that was the case, then suicide would have been wrong, and you did the right thing. However, if it was fear that stopped you, then it was the intervention of survival instinct. In that case, nothing was resolved and you live to fight your demons another day. I learned to live in time. When I had my kidney stone the pain came in waves, about a 20 minute cycle. The pain would get almost unbearably intense for a few minutes and then begin to subside. Now, this was the one and only time, so i didn't know it was a kidney stone until I saw a doctor. But I finally knew it was not going to get any better, so went to the hospital. But I experienced similar with the ~psychological~ pain. And I learned sometimes to literally just take one more step, just to get through to the next minute, and then redo. Sometimes only get through the next second, one step. I learned that if I could get through the next minute, the ~psychological~ pain would subside. (But the suicidal pain came years before the kidney stone pain). I was clear enough in my mind to ~just make it to the other side~ of the intense pain. I've seen many times advertised the program Roadrunner about Anthony Bourdain. I just happened to catch it last night, about 45 minutes into the program. So I decided to watch it. I know he was subject to depression years past. He was almost kind of always running to stay ahead of it. He found this new woman in his life, his wife even said, if she makes you happy, I will not stand in your way. He seemed very happy with his new lady. But then the tabloids gave pictures and said she was with another man. So his world just absolutely crashed. And you could see in film, he was planning his suicide. Hard to look at, as, afterwards, you saw back to the planning of his suicide. He was on Gopal's rollercoaster, he went to the depths, he lost his new woman, or he thought he did. He just gave up, life wasn't worth running to outlast the depression anymore. I found meaning, something worth the pain, something that outweighed the pain. And eventually the something took me out of the pain. But it's a sadder world without Anthony. For me, for years, death was nothing, easy. What's hard is life. But not anymore. Roller-coaster is not a problem if both sides are at the proper height.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 20:17:26 GMT -5
Great! Thanks for doing so. He does not really deserve this forum. He has no interest in the argument we are having here. I always wonder why he chose a spiritual forum like this one.
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Post by sree on Aug 28, 2022 22:47:37 GMT -5
All, I've banned Farmer (poppe) for repeatedly spamming this forum with random messages. This will be a 1 month vacation for Farmer to calm down and sort things out. R Great! Thanks for doing so. He does not really deserve this forum. He has no interest in the argument we are having here. I always wonder why he chose a spiritual forum like this one. You have the power to ban? Are you not an ordinary member like me?
We could just have ignored him and let him be. Even a village idiot has a right to live in the village unless he poses a threat to others.
Farmer must have a need to be here, a place of refuge. If giving alms to beggars is considered a good thing by you guys, why can't you give him a little space?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 22:51:07 GMT -5
All, I've banned Farmer (poppe) for repeatedly spamming this forum with random messages. This will be a 1 month vacation for Farmer to calm down and sort things out. R Great! Thanks for doing so. He does not really deserve this forum. He has no interest in the argument we are having here. I always wonder why he chose a spiritual forum like this one. You have the power to ban? Are you not an ordinary member like me?
We could just have ignored him and let him be. Even a village idiot has a right to live in the village unless he poses a threat to others.
Farmer must have a need to be here, a place of refuge. If giving alms to beggars is considered a good thing by you guys, why can't you give him a little space?
He is not having any interest in the ongoing discussion which is happening here. He never comment on any useful discussion. He only goes on to comment on political things and interested in mocking others. That's all he does. I know him for a very long time. I have been here in this forum for last 7 years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 23:39:15 GMT -5
All, I've banned Farmer (poppe) for repeatedly spamming this forum with random messages. This will be a 1 month vacation for Farmer to calm down and sort things out. R Great! Thanks for doing so. He does not really deserve this forum. He has no interest in the argument we are having here. I always wonder why he chose a spiritual forum like this one. You have the power to ban? Are you not an ordinary member like me?
We could just have ignored him and let him be. Even a village idiot has a right to live in the village unless he poses a threat to others.
Farmer must have a need to be here, a place of refuge. If giving alms to beggars is considered a good thing by you guys, why can't you give him a little space?
No, he doesn't have the power to ban. He tried to quote Reefs, but didn't use the quote feature right so it looks like he wrote it. Reefs posted that in the "Board Business" section.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 23:44:34 GMT -5
You have the power to ban? Are you not an ordinary member like me?
We could just have ignored him and let him be. Even a village idiot has a right to live in the village unless he poses a threat to others.
Farmer must have a need to be here, a place of refuge. If giving alms to beggars is considered a good thing by you guys, why can't you give him a little space?
No, he doesn't have the power to ban. He tried to quote Reefs, but didn't use the quote feature right so it looks like he wrote it. Reefs posted that in the "Board Business" section. I was using cell phone while I was commenting on it. So not having much functionalities for me to put that into quote. Now I have edited with Quote.
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Post by andrew on Aug 29, 2022 1:49:59 GMT -5
You have the power to ban? Are you not an ordinary member like me?
We could just have ignored him and let him be. Even a village idiot has a right to live in the village unless he poses a threat to others.
Farmer must have a need to be here, a place of refuge. If giving alms to beggars is considered a good thing by you guys, why can't you give him a little space?
He is not having any interest in the ongoing discussion which is happening here. He never comment on any useful discussion. He only goes on to comment on political things and interested in mocking others. That's all he does. I know him for a very long time. I have been here in this forum for last 7 years. He's been going through a transformative period lately, if you haven't noticed that, then you should be a bit less self-absorbed. It may be that the break will be good for him. But it may also be that the forum was helping him. I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 1:55:39 GMT -5
He is not having any interest in the ongoing discussion which is happening here. He never comment on any useful discussion. He only goes on to comment on political things and interested in mocking others. That's all he does. I know him for a very long time. I have been here in this forum for last 7 years. He's been going through a transformative period lately, if you haven't noticed that, then you should be a bit less self-absorbed. It may be that the break will be good for him. But it may also be that the forum was helping him. I don't know. I have been watching him for many years and as Reefs has pointed out he has been actually spamming the forum.
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Post by andrew on Aug 29, 2022 2:00:42 GMT -5
He's been going through a transformative period lately, if you haven't noticed that, then you should be a bit less self-absorbed. It may be that the break will be good for him. But it may also be that the forum was helping him. I don't know. I have been watching him for many years and as Reefs has pointed out he has been actually spamming the forum. You clearly haven't been paying attention to him in the last 3 weeks. He has talked about not sleeping, eating. We don't know if he is ill, or if he is going through a powerful spiritual/life change. Or maybe both. I don't think he has been 'spamming' the forum as such.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 2:05:35 GMT -5
I have been watching him for many years and as Reefs has pointed out he has been actually spamming the forum. You clearly haven't been paying attention to him in the last 3 weeks. He has talked about not sleeping, eating. We don't know if he is ill, or if he is going through a powerful spiritual/life change. Or maybe both. I don't think he has been 'spamming' the forum as such. Yes, I might not be observing him for few weeks so you are right. But I know him by what he had been doing in this forum in the past. He was not having a little interest in any of the discussion going on here. He comes to mock at people and talk about politics, I don't know why he chose to engage forum like this. This is spiritual forum!
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Post by laughter on Aug 29, 2022 5:40:57 GMT -5
This is Jesus 101, turn the other cheek. But my Christian mentor, who was a bad asterisk, who said in his Navy days there was no two men he couldn't handle in a fight, said he had only 4 cheeks, so the turning eventually ended. That was my bait. I bet it triggered satch, as it has triggered you. In spiritual discourse, my object is not to seek light in the darkness, or find the path to the promised land. I hunt the boatman, the vampire lurking within. Whatever the response, the blood-sucker can be detected. Not the one in you, but the one in me. Same thing. The key to the Chang Tzu allegory is that the boat is actually empty.
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Post by laughter on Aug 29, 2022 5:41:35 GMT -5
That was my bait. I bet it triggered satch, as it has triggered you. In spiritual discourse, my object is not to seek light in the darkness, or find the path to the promised land. I hunt the boatman, the vampire lurking within. Whatever the response, the blood-sucker can be detected. Not the one in you, but the one in me. Same thing. Whatever hotshot. I see phone, laugh. now go away.
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