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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 22:15:34 GMT -5
That's not a valid argument for not giving money to a beggar. 😃 Since everything else you do is for selfish reasons why rule out this action? Whereas other actions which satisfy your own self and no other are selfish, giving money to a beggar is also for your own selfish reasons but you're also making someone else happy so there's more of a reason to give money to a beggar not less. Everything I do is for the body. I am the self, the tender of the body. I have no business giving money to beggars, a symptom of evil in society. I cannot be connected to that evil. No politics, remember? Not in here and not out there in the real world.  What does an act of human kindness have to do with politics? There is something very distasteful about you as a person.
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Post by sree on Aug 21, 2022 22:29:22 GMT -5
Everything I do is for the body. I am the self, the tender of the body. I have no business giving money to beggars, a symptom of evil in society. I cannot be connected to that evil. No politics, remember? Not in here and not out there in the real world. What does an act of human kindness have to do with politics? There is something very distasteful about you as a person. Human kindness? My discussion on getting rid of a government that creates beggars is considered politics and disallowed. You would declare criticism of such a government off-limits; and yet, you would expect me to support the beggars it creates?
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Post by sree on Aug 21, 2022 22:44:20 GMT -5
That's not a valid argument for not giving money to a beggar. 😃 Since everything else you do is for selfish reasons why rule out this action? Whereas other actions which satisfy your own self and no other are selfish, giving money to a beggar is also for your own selfish reasons but you're also making someone else happy so there's more of a reason to give money to a beggar not less. Where I used to live, five years ago, there was a Hardees about a mile from my home. I like fast food, where there is no tip, I can sit and eat and read for an hour or two, sweet tea refills (but no tea anymore). I usually went Saturday or Sunday morning, had a steak biscuit or whatever was on sale, sometimes two at a good price. In winter I noticed there was an older black man, he was always drinking coffee. I never saw him eating. I asked him his name, he only said John. I finally asked him once if he had eaten anything. He said they (Hardees) gave him coffee, he said he hadn't eaten. So I gave him $2.00, to get something to eat. He thanked me, got his biscuit. He was usually there in the winter. I always gave him a little money for food. He was always alone. He looked retirement age, one morning I asked him how old he was. As I recall he was about 65. I asked him if he had ever applied for SS. He said no. I asked him if he had ever worked at a public job where he got a check and a withdrawal statement, a pay stub, to show he had paid into SS. He said no. He told me a little of his history, about coming down from the north many years ago. I figured he was there in winter to be out of the cold. I finally got up the courage and asked him if he was homeless. He just smiled at me, didn't say. There were woods nearby, I thought maybe he had a 'camp' nearby. I never smelled him, as I have sometimes when people don't know when to take a bath. I now live about 45 minutes from there. I don't eat biscuits anymore, I don't eat much meat. But one of these days I may go check on John. He would be about 72 now. Yes, there are tears... John is the reason why I gave up the conventional life. I would not give John a damn thing even if he were to die of hunger before me. Giving him a biscuit would be a cheap way to bury my conscience and escape responsibility to bring about a world where there are no Johns. I need to keep John front and center before me. No biscuit. I am giving him my life. You should to. satch wants to weasle out of his responsibility by giving biscuits.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 22:45:40 GMT -5
What does an act of human kindness have to do with politics? There is something very distasteful about you as a person. Human kindness? My discussion on getting rid of a government that creates beggars is considered politics and disallowed. You would declare criticism of such a government off-limits; and yet, you would expect me to support the beggars it creates? So why are you discussing something that is disallowed? I am not having that discussion.
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Post by sree on Aug 21, 2022 22:50:36 GMT -5
My oldest daughter told me a story once about a guy who put carpet everywhere he walked to keep his feet from injury. She said the story goes, there is an easier way, most people just wear shoes. If it works for sree, it works. But there is an easier way. I read another story once. A man went up into the mountains once to meditate and conquer the self. He was there for years. He thought he had finally conquered self, so came down from the mountain. The same day he was walking along the pathway, got into an argument with a stranger about some nonsense. He turned around and went back to his mountain hut. If it works for sree, it works, until it doesn't. I've heard that story before about wearing shoes instead of covering the whole world with leather. It describes sree perfectly! Yup. I want to cover the whole world with leather so that no one will ever suffer injury. Look at the air that is plentiful everywhere for us to breathe. No one will ever suffocate. Spirituality is like that.
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Post by sree on Aug 21, 2022 22:52:37 GMT -5
Human kindness? My discussion on getting rid of a government that creates beggars is considered politics and disallowed. You would declare criticism of such a government off-limits; and yet, you would expect me to support the beggars it creates? So why are you discussing something that is disallowed? I am not having that discussion. Neither am I. Let the beggar exists in a world that you want. I want no involvement with the beggars you create.
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Post by sree on Aug 21, 2022 22:56:10 GMT -5
satch's loving kindness is Buddhist bs. Mother Theresa was like that also: Christian bs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 23:03:23 GMT -5
So why are you discussing something that is disallowed? I am not having that discussion. Neither am I. Let the beggar exists in a world that you want. I want no involvement with the beggars you create. It seems that Gopal's stamping mechanism has worked for me. It has removed you from my world.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 23:05:45 GMT -5
Neither am I. Let the beggar exists in a world that you want. I want no involvement with the beggars you create. It seems that Gopal's stamping mechanism has worked for me. It has removed you from my world.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 5:52:08 GMT -5
Yes, cultural mastery was my way of putting it. I understand that you think you're referring to something else, but all these years of your strawmanning make it clear that you're just imagining what that "elimination" means, what that "death before death" means. I can't help that, how you take what I write. As can neither myself nor anyone else help how you interpret what myself or they write. But, we can clarify when you misrepresent via your misinterpretation. Your interpretation of "ST SR" is nothing more than cultural self-mastery, and it is distorted, and not what the people who claim SR are describing.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 5:55:40 GMT -5
The Christian cultural notion of sin is in itself sinful, but they're really doing the best they can, and despite some of the historic carnage, I would never shame anyone for adhering to it. Sin is a very heavily loaded word. Sin means just to miss the mark. The archer aims for the target, misses the bullseye, that a sin, which merely means he missed the mark. Original sin is a disastrous plague on the west, an error. Original sin, in a conventional Christian context, is simply straying from God's will. In a broader, nondual context, it means the existential illusion, which can only be lifted by grace, as "knowledge of good and evil" points to the exact same notion as "ignorance of true nature". Grace doesn't leave an embryo, but there is clarity in the absence left by her wake.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 5:58:43 GMT -5
Are you present to how you're just inviting me into yet another endless mind-spin centered on the existential question? I'm just sharing my view. If a person merely adopts a certain POV, no matter where it comes from, it's going to be superficial. I don't know how that's not clear. Declarative statements like that are artifacts of mind about what mind can never reach, as easily illustrated by how the questions cannot be resolved.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 6:05:39 GMT -5
Well, I know it seems that way to you and satch, and reefs has expressed that opinion as well at times in the past. Certainly, the most visible instances of this actually are people doing as you say .. not "taking their reward in Heaven". Most people are people-peeps, so "always selfish" is a generally pervasive rule, but I'd say there's a matter of degree and nuance involved from instance to instance. A mix of intensity of different flavors of superiority complex or guilt or virtue signaling/approval seeking or goal orientation. In some people those are obviously very pronounced, and in others, quite muted.
It really is possible to help someone at your own expense without expecting anything in return and without the illusion that it's making the world a better place or you a better person. Just "THIS, THISING". And the question is fodder for yet another endless mind spin debate. In the abstract, the question is about free will. "Is it me giving the homeless guy a doughnut, or the universe giving the universe a doughnut? " Some unconscious seekers too smart for their own good might cry "context mix!". They're not wrong about that, but sometimes an existential context mix - like yours here - is actually the correct conceptual answer. You've really missed the point here. Everything we do is for the Self. We are Self (ish). All beings in the field of action are doing that which takes us towards greater happiness and fulfillment which is also the realization of the Self. Are you telling me that if you do something for someone else without any expectation of something in return that you don't feel good about it? It is Self (ish). This is just a context-word game. This is the way it use to be for me, sure, but I honestly don't think you'd understand if I tried to explain the difference with how it is now. Sorry. And the thing is, even back then, sometimes "doing the right thing" was just spontaneous, without any sort of feeling of gratification afterward. It's all a matter of degree, character and situation.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 6:11:06 GMT -5
No you're thinking of "sins", not emotions. Too bad shame and being the cause of shame aren't considered a sin. I really think the Christians missed an opportunity there. No, I am not thinking of sins. Rage is an emotion. It's Sunday night. Somewhere in the city, rage is going to flare up and shots will be fired. Even here in this forum, I can sense rage firing off posts like bullets from guns. How many "spirits" have you shot, Laffy? Judgemental much?
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2022 6:13:23 GMT -5
More comparison mind. Forget about the boat. Those waters will drown you. Instead, start with the teacup. Try not to spill it so much. Easier if it's not so full up to the brim. Have you ever been out to sea on a sailboat? Do you even know what it is like? I have met people who told me that they have never seen the sea. I couldn't believe it! What is the nature of such a mind?
I don't sail far from land. I get seasick. Najib is the skipper of my boat. I would tell him to get us far enough, 50 miles or so; no sight of land anywhere on the horizon, and just drift, for days or weeks before heading back to restock on supplies, fresh water and fuel. I have GPS-enabled state of the art navigation system, the kind real sailors spit on. Being free from toxic human energy is healing. Najib is ok, a simple guy who doesn't foul up that sense of silence.
I don't get seasick. Is your far vision poor? If not, then the sea sickness is a matter of where you are placing your attention as you sail when the water isn't completely still.
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