|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 11:06:08 GMT -5
Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole Tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. Thanks, absolutely loved Johnny for a very long time.. too bad he smoked.. cut his life short And as a once decent chess player I was always intrigued by Bobby. What a glorious nut! I won't click many links but I definitely will this one (although there's a halfway decent chance I would have watched this live) Yes, I too probably saw it live. Yes, always a necessity for me 11:30PM-1:00AM. Then, I could go 4 days a week on 5 hours sleep. I thought I was a night person, until I got married. New wife said, you're going off caffeine. (Liked ice tea, not coffee). In about 3 days I was going to sleep by 9:00 PM. That was 1983.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 13, 2022 11:21:52 GMT -5
FWIW, you'll never find the "me" but you'll know without any doubt if the thought structure responsible for the sense of "me" collapses and totally vanishes. If that happens, there will no longer be any division between "inside" and "outside" and it will then become obvious what it is that sees, hears, feels, thinks, and acts. That's what we refer to on the forum as "SR." The issue doesn't seem important to me. I function as if the "outside" world exists, but if it doesn't, that's okay, too. This kind of thinking doesn't affect my everyday life. But when you seems to be unsure as to whether outer world exist, Yes?
No. I only wrote that second statement in order to point to the meaninglessness of that kind of thinking. It was a sop to you, but as I may not have made crystal clear, that kind of thinking not only doesn't affect my life, it doesn't even occur. 22 years ago I saw, without any doubt, that who I had thought I was (a SVP) had been an illusion, and that the real doer of everything is what we can call "Reality with a capital R," or "The Self," or "Source," or "THIS," and that ended the search for truth for this character. All there is is THIS, and everyone and everything IS THIS. The distinction between inside and outside vanished, and self-referential reflective thought patterns ceased. THIS, manifesting as this particular human, never had any more existential questions, and life became quite ordinary, simple, and matter of fact. Pride, shame, regret, fantasization, second guessing, and existential intellection ceased. I realized, like SN, that what I am is nothing (no thing). The primary value of meditation seems to be the shifting of attention away from thoughts and thereby "getting out of one's head." Meditation may not directly cause existential realizations to occur, but meditative activities and becoming internally silent seem to be highly correlated with those kinds of realizations (judging by several websites that ask people to report what activity immediately preceded major spiritual/existential insights).
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 13, 2022 11:30:08 GMT -5
How could he make statement like there is no outer and inner when he is not sure of whether there is an outer world. hmm? Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole Tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. Exactly! I used to play chess and when I reviewed Fisher's game he played at the age of 16 (that became so famous it now has a name), where he sacrificed his queen and many other powerful pieces to continually increase the power of his assault, I was blown away. What a genius! Too bad he eventually went wacko.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 13, 2022 11:34:15 GMT -5
Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem? People who live in their heads and are strongly attached to their thoughts will never understand. (If what you believe were true, then no SR human would ever get irritated because the same logic applies.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:05:21 GMT -5
But when you seems to be unsure as to whether outer world exist, Yes?
No. I only wrote that second statement in order to point to the meaninglessness of that kind of thinking. It was a sop to you, but as I may not have made crystal clear, that kind of thinking not only doesn't affect my life, it doesn't even occur. 22 years ago I saw, without any doubt, that who I had thought I was (a SVP) had been an illusion, and that the real doer of everything is what we can call "Reality with a capital R," or "The Self," or "Source," or "THIS," and that ended the search for truth for this character. All there is is THIS, and everyone and everything IS THIS. The distinction between inside and outside vanished, and self-referential reflective thought patterns ceased. THIS, manifesting as this particular human, never had any more existential questions, and life became quite ordinary, simple, and matter of fact. Pride, shame, regret, fantasization, second guessing, and existential intellection ceased. I realized, like SN, that what I am is nothing (no thing). The primary value of meditation seems to be the shifting of attention away from thoughts and thereby "getting out of one's head." Meditation may not directly cause existential realizations to occur, but meditative activities and becoming internally silent seem to be highly correlated with those kinds of realizations (judging by several websites that ask people to report what activity immediately preceded major spiritual/existential insights). I still find there is something wrong with what you have seen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:06:40 GMT -5
If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem? People who live in their heads and are strongly attached to their thoughts will never understand. (If what you believe were true, then no SR human would ever get irritated because the same logic applies.)You are correct here. But that irritation is due to the roller-coaster. It moves through happy/unhappy and so the side of the unhappy touches the irritation not the anger.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Aug 13, 2022 12:11:10 GMT -5
Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem? If you know that you cannot know if other appearances are Consciousness-appearances or Figment-appearances, then why do you still go to the mirage for water?
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 13, 2022 12:28:17 GMT -5
No. I only wrote that second statement in order to point to the meaninglessness of that kind of thinking. It was a sop to you, but as I may not have made crystal clear, that kind of thinking not only doesn't affect my life, it doesn't even occur. 22 years ago I saw, without any doubt, that who I had thought I was (a SVP) had been an illusion, and that the real doer of everything is what we can call "Reality with a capital R," or "The Self," or "Source," or "THIS," and that ended the search for truth for this character. All there is is THIS, and everyone and everything IS THIS. The distinction between inside and outside vanished, and self-referential reflective thought patterns ceased. THIS, manifesting as this particular human, never had any more existential questions, and life became quite ordinary, simple, and matter of fact. Pride, shame, regret, fantasization, second guessing, and existential intellection ceased. I realized, like SN, that what I am is nothing (no thing). The primary value of meditation seems to be the shifting of attention away from thoughts and thereby "getting out of one's head." Meditation may not directly cause existential realizations to occur, but meditative activities and becoming internally silent seem to be highly correlated with those kinds of realizations (judging by several websites that ask people to report what activity immediately preceded major spiritual/existential insights). I still find there is something wrong with what you have seen. Haha! I don't doubt that. Each human has to see into their true nature for him/herself. Everything important lies beyond logic and ideation, beyond right and wrong, beyond real and unreal, beyond anything that can be imagined.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 13, 2022 12:32:42 GMT -5
People who live in their heads and are strongly attached to their thoughts will never understand. (If what you believe were true, then no SR human would ever get irritated because the same logic applies.)You are correct here. But that irritation is due to the roller-coaster. It moves through happy/unhappy and so the side of the unhappy touches the irritation not the anger. I have no idea what that means, but that's okay. All I can say is that the roller coaster disappears when the "me" disappears.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:38:18 GMT -5
You are correct here. But that irritation is due to the roller-coaster. It moves through happy/unhappy and so the side of the unhappy touches the irritation not the anger. I have no idea what that means, but that's okay. All I can say is that the roller coaster disappears when the "me" disappears. It's what happens when spirituality and psychology collide
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:41:06 GMT -5
You are correct here. But that irritation is due to the roller-coaster. It moves through happy/unhappy and so the side of the unhappy touches the irritation not the anger. I have no idea what that means, but that's okay. All I can say is that the roller coaster disappears when the "me" disappears. Entire life is roller-coaster, it wouldn't go away. The ups and down continue to be in everyone's life. But how much it goes up and down that depends upon the clarity of the person.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 12:42:24 GMT -5
No. I only wrote that second statement in order to point to the meaninglessness of that kind of thinking. It was a sop to you, but as I may not have made crystal clear, that kind of thinking not only doesn't affect my life, it doesn't even occur. 22 years ago I saw, without any doubt, that who I had thought I was (a SVP) had been an illusion, and that the real doer of everything is what we can call "Reality with a capital R," or "The Self," or "Source," or "THIS," and that ended the search for truth for this character. All there is is THIS, and everyone and everything IS THIS. The distinction between inside and outside vanished, and self-referential reflective thought patterns ceased. THIS, manifesting as this particular human, never had any more existential questions, and life became quite ordinary, simple, and matter of fact. Pride, shame, regret, fantasization, second guessing, and existential intellection ceased. I realized, like SN, that what I am is nothing (no thing). The primary value of meditation seems to be the shifting of attention away from thoughts and thereby "getting out of one's head." Meditation may not directly cause existential realizations to occur, but meditative activities and becoming internally silent seem to be highly correlated with those kinds of realizations (judging by several websites that ask people to report what activity immediately preceded major spiritual/existential insights). I still find there is something wrong with what you have seen. Gopal, have you ever seen 2001 A Space Odyssey?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:44:36 GMT -5
No I can't imagine Ramana saying that but then again he lived his whole life untouched by the outside world closeted in an ashram in Southern India, not living in New York City in the 21st century when he probably would have had a YouTube channel. And you'd better explain the difference between talking talk and walking talk. Does the walking use walking words just like the talking words? How would you know the difference between walking words compared with talking words? It's very confusing. Why should a "let the world take care of itself" attitude only work on a mountain top but not in a megacity? When you talk the non-dual talk but continue your dual walk, you'll trip all over your actual dual talk by trying to do your fake non-dual walk. That would be because there is duality. 😀 Not all sages withdraw from the world. Many are active in the community. It depends on your vasanas.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 12:45:46 GMT -5
I still find there is something wrong with what you have seen. Gopal, have you ever seen 2001 A Space Odyssey? This argument does not fit for you pilgrims, let us argue about bible. You discontinued that day, may be we could continue that. But this argument does not suite for you.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Aug 13, 2022 12:49:09 GMT -5
Gopal, have you ever seen 2001 A Space Odyssey? This argument does not fit for you pilgrims, let us argue about bible. You discontinued that day, may be we could continue that. But this argument does not suite for you. You should watch 'The Adjustment Bureau' with Matt Damon. Not because of any argument we are having, but because I think you will find the idea very interesting.
|
|