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Post by andrew on Aug 6, 2022 6:41:19 GMT -5
But I know I am a perceiver so that name 'figment' wouldn't work for me . OMG!! what is it with you guys. It's not all about you!
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Post by tenka on Aug 6, 2022 6:43:26 GMT -5
But I know I am a perceiver so that name 'figment' wouldn't work for me . OMG!! what is it with you guys. It's not all about you! You mean there are actual other's after all?
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Post by andrew on Aug 6, 2022 6:47:57 GMT -5
But hang on. That doesn't make any sense from my perspective. I demand that he changes his name to 'possibly figment'! But I know I am a perceiver so that name 'figment' wouldn't work for me . And do you still not know if we are Consciousness/Existent/Real? Has there been a flash of illumination since we last saw you? Oooh here's a question for you....am I correct to say that, for you, there are 2 kinds of potential appearance? There's the kind that would be a 'Figment appearance' and the kind that would be a 'Consciousness/Existent/Real appearance'?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2022 7:48:41 GMT -5
But I know I am a perceiver so that name 'figment' wouldn't work for me . OMG!! what is it with you guys. It's not all about you! You asked me why I have kept that name.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 9:01:20 GMT -5
Well it's pretty easy to attribute more meaning to something than actually could be there. Plus these types of stories are hard to tell in conventional means. Things seem to be changing somewhat around here recently but I'm kinda used to it, thing are always changing, sometimes slowly, sometimes more quickly. Ego is what you call the 'me'? That's a pretty challenging 'structure' to 'see'. FWIW, you'll never find the "me" but you'll know without any doubt if the thought structure responsible for the sense of "me" collapses and totally vanishes. If that happens, there will no longer be any division between "inside" and "outside" and it will then become obvious what it is that sees, hears, feels, thinks, and acts. That's what we refer to on the forum as "SR." If so, why are you not sure of outer world doesn't exist in itself? Or are you agree that perceiver independent world doesn't exist? The issue doesn't seem important to me. I function as if the "outside" world exists, but if it doesn't, that's okay, too. This kind of thinking doesn't affect my everyday life. But when you seems to be unsure as to whether outer world exist, Yes?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 9:16:30 GMT -5
FWIW, you'll never find the "me" but you'll know without any doubt if the thought structure responsible for the sense of "me" collapses and totally vanishes. If that happens, there will no longer be any division between "inside" and "outside" and it will then become obvious what it is that sees, hears, feels, thinks, and acts. That's what we refer to on the forum as "SR." The issue doesn't seem important to me. I function as if the "outside" world exists, but if it doesn't, that's okay, too. This kind of thinking doesn't affect my everyday life. But when you seems to be unsure as to whether outer world exist, Yes?
For purposes of debate, it doesn't matter if the outer world exists, or not. Functionality is what matters. You hit the keyboard, letters appear on the screen. That's functionality. You hit Create Post, it makes semi-permanent your hitting of the keys on the keyboard. I agreed with you on this years ago Gopal. Why should you care about what anybody else says, isn't my view good enough for you? But of course, we always want to slay the biggest Dragon.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 9:26:54 GMT -5
Maybe not that smart to post your entire medical history online. All kinds of people will pick up on this and project their own fears and unresolved issues onto this. That's the last thing you need in such a state of delicate confusion. Just saying. I don't care, but maybe I should. I consider myself an open book. Most people live mostly through their subconscious processing. Most people here are...on top of that. But even if we are mostly incognito here, we can still engage each other's emotions. Thank goodness there are no more food fights like in the past. Reefs just wants you to protect yourself, the body. Wise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 9:53:00 GMT -5
I don't care, but maybe I should. I consider myself an open book. Most people live mostly through their subconscious processing. Most people here are...on top of that. But even if we are mostly incognito here, we can still engage each other's emotions. Thank goodness there are no more food fights like in the past. Reefs just wants you to protect yourself, the body. Wise. How could he make statement like there is no outer and inner when he is not sure of whether there is an outer world. hmm?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 10:17:41 GMT -5
Most people live mostly through their subconscious processing. Most people here are...on top of that. But even if we are mostly incognito here, we can still engage each other's emotions. Thank goodness there are no more food fights like in the past. Reefs just wants you to protect yourself, the body. Wise. How could he make statement like there is no outer and inner when he is not sure of whether there is an outer world. hmm? Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole Tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 10:25:11 GMT -5
How could he make statement like there is no outer and inner when he is not sure of whether there is an outer world. hmm? Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 10:42:15 GMT -5
Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem? No, it's not a problem. Sometimes anger is an appropriate response of the Whole, in the skin of zd. In my tradition we have lots of language, but it always has a use and function. Will is one of our words. But by Will we mean nothing within the ordinary realm, nothing usually attributed to the word will. We had plenty of examples, IRT IRL examples, a kind of training. Chapter 20 of the Tao Te Ching tries to express this, but it fails. You know yes and no? Yes, you do. When I say yes, is it possible to simultaneously also mean no? This is ruled out by Aristotle's logic (he was a very, very, very, very, very smart dude). But for us Will includes its own opposite. By Will we mean yes and no, simultaneously. That's what I mean by you need to escape your logic maze. Logic goes only so far, and then must be abandoned. A metaphor. You know the meaning of the tree line on a mountain? Logic is like a tree line. But stuff exists above the tree line, just not trees. Read my line I used to have below. "Where is the man who has forgotten words. He is the one I would like to talk to". Chuang Tzu Gopal, you waste hours and hours and hours here on ST's. Climb Mount Analogue. Probe zd's words, that will have infinitely more value for you than continuously opposing them. We all love you Gopal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 10:48:44 GMT -5
If you see mirage over there, would you go and take water? If I say that If that is mirage, then you can't go because water would not be available, would you still resist me by saying 'Gopal, please don't use logic here'? would you? ZD says things which we all know it's false. For an example, he says he gets angry even after realizing the truth that no one is responsible. Don't you find that as a problem? No, it's not a problem. Sometimes anger is an appropriate response of the Whole, in the skin of zd. In my tradition we have lots of language, but it always has a use and function. Will is one of our words. But by Will we mean nothing within the ordinary realm, nothing usually attributed to the word will. We had plenty of examples, IRT IRL examples, a kind of training. Chapter 20 of the Tao Te Ching tries to express this, but it fails. You know yes and no? Yes, you do. When I say yes, is it possible to simultaneously also mean no? This is ruled out by Aristotle's logic (he was a very, very, very, very, very smart dude). But for us Will includes its own opposite. By Will we mean yes and no, simultaneously. That's what I mean by you need to escape your logic maze. Logic goes only so far, and then must be abandoned. A metaphor. You know the meaning of the tree line on a mountain? Logic is like a tree line. But stuff exists above the tree line, just not trees. Read my line I used to have below. "Where is the man who has forgotten words. He is the one I would like to talk to". Chuang Tzu Gopal, you waste hours and hours and hours here on ST's. Climb Mount Analogue. Probe zd's words, that will have infinitely more value for you than continuously opposing them. We all love you Gopal. You are welcome to follow his teaching! But I unfortunately would always stand on the side of the truth. I never side on the people, for me, truth is more important than people here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 10:52:41 GMT -5
Thanks, yes, I like your statistics better than satch's. People are way too much action oriented, they think that all that matters is what they do, what they decided to do. But when you understand LOA, you will realize that what you do doesn't really matter that much. What matters is your point of attraction. As AW always says, when the wrong man uses the right means, the the right means work in the wrong way. You can make so many different decisions every day and choose so many different courses of action, but if your point of attraction doesn't change, no matter what you decide or what course of action you choose, you will eventually end up in the exact same place. That's why I think that Farmer's basic attitude of "everything is always working out" is perfect. If he can maintain this, he will be fine. Don't let others let you talk out of this with their own fears and their own personal mental hang-ups! Never mind the statistics. They only show what other people attracted based on their point of attraction, which has nothing to do with you. And also never mind the people who present you the statistics because they only attract these specific statistics based on their point of attraction again, which again has nothing to do with you. If you can maintain your own point of attraction independently of the point of attraction of the collective, the statistics that apply to the collective won't apply to you anymore. We are all one, so no collective. Everything moves as one. No one can decide independently.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 10:53:12 GMT -5
How could he make statement like there is no outer and inner when he is not sure of whether there is an outer world. hmm? Gopal, in all kindness, you need to escape the logic maze. There is only What Is. There are things that seem-to-be, but are not. zd has had something so profound occur, it couldn't be put into words by the best wordsmith. I think I can find an amazing video of Bobby Fischer, he did not only play chess, it wouldn't be even a slight comparison, but it kind-of gives a sense of Ordering Intelligence available. Multiply the video by a million. Everything That Is, is a movement of the Whole. It's one movement. It's One Unified Whole. Underlying the seeming chaos of everything we see, is a Whole Intelligence operating. IOW, there is always order behind the chaos. zd recognizes that he himself is the Whole, the movement of the Whole. Getting to your question. If there is only One-Whole-Operating-Being-Thusness, there cannot be an inside and an outside. Look at a tapestry. One side is a beautiful picture. The back side is complete chaos. Yet it is all the same tapestry, One Whole Tapestry. Understand? zd is a thread in the Whole Tapestry, no front or back, no inside or outside. (Forgive if all the words are not pointing in the right direction).This is a very good interview, but you can skip to minute 12:00 for the 15 Puzzle demonstration. Thanks, absolutely loved Johnny for a very long time.. too bad he smoked.. cut his life short And as a once decent chess player I was always intrigued by Bobby. What a glorious nut! I won't click many links but I definitely will this one (although there's a halfway decent chance I would have watched this live)
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 13, 2022 10:59:40 GMT -5
No, it's not a problem. Sometimes anger is an appropriate response of the Whole, in the skin of zd. In my tradition we have lots of language, but it always has a use and function. Will is one of our words. But by Will we mean nothing within the ordinary realm, nothing usually attributed to the word will. We had plenty of examples, IRT IRL examples, a kind of training. Chapter 20 of the Tao Te Ching tries to express this, but it fails. You know yes and no? Yes, you do. When I say yes, is it possible to simultaneously also mean no? This is ruled out by Aristotle's logic (he was a very, very, very, very, very smart dude). But for us Will includes its own opposite. By Will we mean yes and no, simultaneously. That's what I mean by you need to escape your logic maze. Logic goes only so far, and then must be abandoned. A metaphor. You know the meaning of the tree line on a mountain? Logic is like a tree line. But stuff exists above the tree line, just not trees. Read my line I used to have below. "Where is the man who has forgotten words. He is the one I would like to talk to". Chuang Tzu Gopal, you waste hours and hours and hours here on ST's. Climb Mount Analogue. Probe zd's words, that will have infinitely more value for you than continuously opposing them. We all love you Gopal. You are welcome to follow his teaching! But I unfortunately would always stand on the side of the truth. I never side on the people, for me, truth is more important than people here. I don't follow his teaching. I understand zd's POV. I'm a kind of a sail into the sunset alone guy.
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