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Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2020 22:55:42 GMT -5
'Here' meaning what - this forum or this planet? I'm not quite understanding what you are saying here, do you mean in an objective physical reality model there's no room for personal creators? I don't know what a "personal creator" is. "Here" means physical reality, which I believe to be a subjective reality, which everyone (every unit of consciousness, not humans only) creates a personal version of, and doesn't sense it through their five senses (there is no objective reality to be sensed). I was stating that none of the participants into this physical reality can consciously manifest what they want, or they wouldn't be here anymore. To learn to do that is the reason for being here. Obviously, this is what I believe. A personal creator is an individual creator. Okay, understood.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2020 23:04:01 GMT -5
I believe I explored more than you did. I don't believe you can manifest the way you described (I don't claim I can). If you could you wouldn't be here anymore, in the physical reality. It doesn't work as you described it. There is no mind's eye, no ball rolling. We may differ in semantics ... your subconscious creates your own version of reality; that is the only creation. You, as I share opinions, beliefs on the subject. If you hold something in your mind's eye, then the mind which creates the events kicks in and you are going to manifest it. The same happens in lucid dream but in lucid dream it would be very fast, it's instantaneous but here in physical reality it's very slow, but it manifests nonetheless with the given condition that you hold the image of your desire reality. Yes, that would be the ideal case. However, how do you know that your thoughts actually cause what is manifesting? Your thoughts could as well just accompany/match whatever is manifesting anyway without actually causing it. You see, this is where comparing dream state to waking state and lucid dreaming isn't going to help you see more clearly on this issue.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2020 23:08:28 GMT -5
O.k., well, to extend the metaphor, some people like college and prolong it for as long as they can, getting multiple degrees. Why wouldn't that happen "here"? What a funny theory, eh? It's classic new age theory and really just an extension of classical religious dogma of having to prove your worthiness. That's why I like A-H, in their world view, you have nothing to prove, to have, to do or to be. You can just be as you are. You are not in a class room where you are judged by some celestial standard, you are on vacation.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2020 23:17:17 GMT -5
O.k., well, to extend the metaphor, some people like college and prolong it for as long as they can, getting multiple degrees. Why wouldn't that happen "here"? I guess those aren't mature (evolved) enough ... to graduate. You can't get an additional degree attending the same class, not even on Earth. So let's assume you've eventually graduated with summa cum laude. Then what?
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 0:28:23 GMT -5
It's classic new age theory and really just an extension of classical religious dogma of having to prove your worthiness. That's why I like A-H, in their world view, you have nothing to prove, to have, to do or to be. You can just be as you are. You are not in a class room where you are judged by some celestial standard, you are on vacation. You're welcome to dismiss my beliefs. I'm not familiar with new age theory. If you believe you're on vacation, you'll be surprised.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 0:30:46 GMT -5
I guess those aren't mature (evolved) enough ... to graduate. You can't get an additional degree attending the same class, not even on Earth. So let's assume you've eventually graduated with summa cum laude. Then what? I don't know. My inner source say he doesn't know everything either, but he doesn't have to.
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Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2020 7:17:45 GMT -5
O.k., well, to extend the metaphor, some people like college and prolong it for as long as they can, getting multiple degrees. Why wouldn't that happen "here"? What a funny theory, eh? Dude .. this above all .. first .. bee kind!
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Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2020 7:25:07 GMT -5
O.k., well, to extend the metaphor, some people like college and prolong it for as long as they can, getting multiple degrees. Why wouldn't that happen "here"? I guess those aren't mature (evolved) enough ... to graduate. You can't get an additional degree attending the same class, not even on Earth. the gif is as funny as it is rather vaguely disturbing if one suspends the fiction of it in their mind. Some people just like it on a college campus .. the ambiance, being in the midst of that constant transition, having opportunity to learn even just a bit more of an endless collection of knowledge or perhaps broaden one's horizon with a completely new line of study to the ones already mastered. Why not a different metaphor from a dojo, of, say, a fish tank or bird feeder? Is your point that only a violent fool would postpone moving on? Is there a final, postgraduate doctorate level in some other, higher reality, or is that something that we can't know from this level?
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Post by Reefs on Sept 21, 2020 12:38:09 GMT -5
It's classic new age theory and really just an extension of classical religious dogma of having to prove your worthiness. That's why I like A-H, in their world view, you have nothing to prove, to have, to do or to be. You can just be as you are. You are not in a class room where you are judged by some celestial standard, you are on vacation. You're welcome to dismiss my beliefs. I'm not familiar with new age theory. If you believe you're on vacation, you'll be surprised. New age theory is pretty close to what Seth teaches, although Seth doesn't really go as far as you are going. I'm not believing that. But I am generally suspicious of any 'no pain no gain' theories. And if I had to choose between your ascension theory and the A-H theory, I'd choose the latter. That's all I was trying to say. Fortunately, none of these theories are necessary or even true in an absolute sense. They can be helpful in certain contexts, but ultimately, they don't mean anything. Realizing that will result in a much more relaxed approach to life.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 21, 2020 12:45:27 GMT -5
So let's assume you've eventually graduated with summa cum laude. Then what? I don't know. My inner source say he doesn't know everything either, but he doesn't have to. You mean you are both just speculating and you are both okay with that?
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 13:32:46 GMT -5
I guess those aren't mature (evolved) enough ... to graduate. You can't get an additional degree attending the same class, not even on Earth. .gif the gif is as funny as it is rather vaguely disturbing if one suspends the fiction of it in their mind. Some people just like it on a college campus .. the ambiance, being in the midst of that constant transition, having opportunity to learn even just a bit more of an endless collection of knowledge or perhaps broaden one's horizon with a completely new line of study to the ones already mastered. Why not a different metaphor from a dojo, of, say, a fish tank or bird feeder? Is your point that only a violent fool would postpone moving on? Is there a final, postgraduate doctorate level in some other, higher reality, or is that something that we can't know from this level? Not violent, just fool. I don't know. Can't say what others know. In my metaphor, a postgraduate reality creator wouldn't attend the same class (the Earth). My gif example is about the disproportion of attending the same class by people with largely different capabilities. Like playing tennis men with women. I subscribe neither to the idea of having to suffer here to learn, nor to the one that we have to learn here love, nor to the one that we have to do nothing here. But, again, that's what I believe, now. We'll see.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 14:31:18 GMT -5
You're welcome to dismiss my beliefs. I'm not familiar with new age theory. If you believe you're on vacation, you'll be surprised. New age theory is pretty close to what Seth teaches, although Seth doesn't really go as far as you are going. I'm not believing that. But I am generally suspicious of any 'no pain no gain' theories. And if I had to choose between your ascension theory and the A-H theory, I'd choose the latter. That's all I was trying to say. Fortunately, none of these theories are necessary or even true in an absolute sense. They can be helpful in certain contexts, but ultimately, they don't mean anything. Realizing that will result in a much more relaxed approach to life. What seems funny to me is how dismissive you are of my beliefs, while pontificating yours as truths. Also, you keep incorrectly assuming that I am a Seth (as channeled by Jane Roberts) adept. I repeat it: I am not. It is just that Seth is the one I find the closest to what I believe. You seem to assume that there is an objective reality we all perceive through our five senses, and that pretty much we have nothing to learn through our lives. I disagree on both accounts. I suspect there is no way to convince you (and I repeatedly stated I don't intend to convince anybody, just sharing opinions), and you can't convince me either (because I don't value any external source of information over my inner one). I must be doing something I don't intend to do (like hitting a raw nerve), as I keep getting these kind of dismissive, sometimes insulting reactions, that sometimes attribute me opinions that I didn't express.. People here seem to be overly-convinced they're right. That's a weakness. Too bad, as it seems to be a forum with above average well-read people.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 14:38:15 GMT -5
I don't know. My inner source say he doesn't know everything either, but he doesn't have to. You mean you are both just speculating and you are both okay with that? No. No speculation about what isn't known. This seems to be one of the problems I encounter on this forum: people seem to believe they know the truth and dismiss any other point of view as worthless speculation.
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Post by runstill on Sept 21, 2020 14:47:20 GMT -5
the gif is as funny as it is rather vaguely disturbing if one suspends the fiction of it in their mind. Some people just like it on a college campus .. the ambiance, being in the midst of that constant transition, having opportunity to learn even just a bit more of an endless collection of knowledge or perhaps broaden one's horizon with a completely new line of study to the ones already mastered. Why not a different metaphor from a dojo, of, say, a fish tank or bird feeder? Is your point that only a violent fool would postpone moving on? Is there a final, postgraduate doctorate level in some other, higher reality, or is that something that we can't know from this level? Not violent, just fool. I don't know. Can't say what others know. In my metaphor, a postgraduate reality creator wouldn't attend the same class (the Earth). My gif example is about the disproportion of attending the same class by people with largely different capabilities. Like playing tennis men with women. I subscribe neither to the idea of having to suffer here to learn, nor to the one that we have to learn here love, nor to the one that we have to do nothing here. But, again, that's what I believe, now. We'll see. The universe is a creation dance that we all play in made of consciousness, it does not exist as a separate reality from consciousness. If one 'rests' in the field of awareness, the obviousness is stunning.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 21, 2020 15:51:50 GMT -5
Not violent, just fool. I don't know. Can't say what others know. In my metaphor, a postgraduate reality creator wouldn't attend the same class (the Earth). My gif example is about the disproportion of attending the same class by people with largely different capabilities. Like playing tennis men with women. I subscribe neither to the idea of having to suffer here to learn, nor to the one that we have to learn here love, nor to the one that we have to do nothing here. But, again, that's what I believe, now. We'll see. The universe is a creation dance that we all play in made of consciousness, it does not exist as a separate reality from consciousness. If one 'rests' in the field of awareness, the obviousness is stunning. We may use terms "universe", "consciousness", "awareness" with slightly different meaning. Not sure what of my post made you write your comment. Anyway, I disagree that "resting" is the way here. We didn't take the trouble to "incarnate" for the purpose of resting. I assume that you called "universe" what you perceive with your five senses, the physical universe, which I contend that it is created by your own subconscious; and that there's no objective universe out there.
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