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Post by justlikeyou on Mar 30, 2020 20:12:51 GMT -5
"I welcome you to dive even more deeply. There is no bottom to this depth. Everything is an opportunity. Even this virus, this unwanted event, is an opportunity to dive deeper." -Gangaji
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 21:27:21 GMT -5
I may kind of see what you're saying, but I'd like to argue a bit  Take for example a simple scientific idea, or "theory" – objects dropped at about sea level fall with acceleration of 9.8 m/s 2. You can test it, experience it, and measure it for yourself. It’s not one of more inspiring ideas, but it’s a good example. Where is the belief in that? It seems to be just a reporting of perceptions, in the language of mathematics. You don't have to construct beliefs about a material world, or your place in it, etc. The belief comes with the senses already. The senses construct physical reality as we know it. With a different set of senses, you'd be living in a different reality. Ultimately, there's nothing objective about this world. It only seems that way because we can all agree on what we see. The term 'consensus trance' gets a whole new meaning here. So it would be a lot more appropriate to call this world an agreement based reality than a fact based reality, or even an objective reality. There's some good stuff about this in the Seth thread. Read a bit there and you'll get the idea. So it depends what your context is. If you speak in the context of physics or science in general, that's the relative context and there you may have a point. But if we speak in the context of non-duality, which is the absolute context, physical reality is just one of many models of reality, one of many belief systems (or ways of constructing 'reality'). How do you know about these other "models of reality"? Do you experience them directly? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 23:29:48 GMT -5
The belief comes with the senses already. The senses construct physical reality as we know it. With a different set of senses, you'd be living in a different reality. Ultimately, there's nothing objective about this world. It only seems that way because we can all agree on what we see. The term 'consensus trance' gets a whole new meaning here. So it would be a lot more appropriate to call this world an agreement based reality than a fact based reality, or even an objective reality. There's some good stuff about this in the Seth thread. Read a bit there and you'll get the idea. So it depends what your context is. If you speak in the context of physics or science in general, that's the relative context and there you may have a point. But if we speak in the context of non-duality, which is the absolute context, physical reality is just one of many models of reality, one of many belief systems (or ways of constructing 'reality'). How do you know about these other "models of reality"? Do you experience them directly? Same question arises in my mind as well. The theory he has written above I have read from seth book. If we do not experience something by ourselves, we can't know for sure. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 31, 2020 4:25:34 GMT -5
FWIW, the CDC is considering recommending that people wear face masks outdoors to avoid spreading the virus through talking or laughing as well as through sneezing or coughing. It appears that some asymptomatic people shed virus more profusely than others and more profusely than originally imagined. Face masks are common in Asia but virtually non-existent in the USA. Stay tuned. We may see another 180 degree flip.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 4:37:11 GMT -5
FWIW, the CDC is considering recommending that people wear face masks outdoors to avoid spreading the virus through talking or laughing as well as through sneezing or coughing. It appears that some asymptomatic people shed virus more profusely than others and more profusely than originally imagined. Face masks are common in Asia but virtually non-existent in the USA. Stay tuned. We may see another 180 degree flip. All your writing about this virus is really helpful. Yesterday I shared one of your post into my whatsapp group . Thanks for writing up. |
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Post by Peter on Mar 31, 2020 4:59:43 GMT -5
I can tell you though that this crisis may not actually be what it seems to be at the moment and that there are plans underway in the background for a life after the crisis, which may disappear as suddenly as it appeared on our radar. Are you speaking of plans at the level of government, or elsewhere Reefs ? What gives you evidence for those plans existing? In the UK (and this is filtered through the media of course) it very much seems like our government is working / reacting day to day and can't see more than a week ahead - with the exception of some hints coming from other countries further on than we are (looting in Italy now?). This is evidenced by a gradual filling in of the response - what about the self employed, what about construction workers etc; all questions being asked of our government and the response comes a couple of days later. I'm certainly enjoying the quietness. No planes in the sky, barely any cars on the road. If we could find a way to make this our way of life after this blows over then we could really address climate issues quickly. It would be radical action indeed. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 5:26:30 GMT -5
I can tell you though that this crisis may not actually be what it seems to be at the moment and that there are plans underway in the background for a life after the crisis, which may disappear as suddenly as it appeared on our radar. Are you speaking of plans at the level of government, or elsewhere Reefs ? What gives you evidence for those plans existing? In the UK (and this is filtered through the media of course) it very much seems like our government is working / reacting day to day and can't seem more than a week ahead - with the exception of some hints coming from other countries further on than we are (looting in Italy now?). This is evidenced by a gradual filling in of the response - what about the self employed, what about construction workers etc all questions being asked of our government and the response comes a couple of days later. I'm certainly enjoying the quietness. No planes in the sky, barely any cars on the road. If we could find a way to make this our way of life after this blows over then we could really address climate issues quickly. It would be radical action indeed.
He is not talking about plans at the level of government. He is saying Life is making that change.
Why do you think that there would be a climate change? Any reason? I can sense it somehow, but what's the logic behind it? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 8:03:31 GMT -5
FWIW, the CDC is considering recommending that people wear face masks outdoors to avoid spreading the virus through talking or laughing as well as through sneezing or coughing. It appears that some asymptomatic people shed virus more profusely than others and more profusely than originally imagined. Face masks are common in Asia but virtually non-existent in the USA. Stay tuned. We may see another 180 degree flip. This tells me the CDC is wholly disconnected from reality. If doctors and nurses are scrambling for face masks, how are folks going to get them? The missteps keep coming. Where's my da$$med toilet paper? You just gotta sit back and laugh. Here in my county, they just voted to keep the beaches open. They've been packed for days. You can't manage a pandemic at the state and local level. But hey CV is going to magically disappear soon. People still believe that. Lots of folks stuck in that first stage of grief. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 31, 2020 8:33:26 GMT -5
FWIW, the CDC is considering recommending that people wear face masks outdoors to avoid spreading the virus through talking or laughing as well as through sneezing or coughing. It appears that some asymptomatic people shed virus more profusely than others and more profusely than originally imagined. Face masks are common in Asia but virtually non-existent in the USA. Stay tuned. We may see another 180 degree flip. This tells me the CDC is wholly disconnected from reality. If doctors and nurses are scrambling for face masks, how are folks going to get them? The missteps keep coming. Where's my da$$med toilet paper? You just gotta sit back and laugh. Here in my county, they just voted to keep the beaches open. They've been packed for days. You can't manage a pandemic at the state and local level. But hey CV is going to magically disappear soon. People still believe that. Lots of folks stuck in that first stage of grief. The docs and nurses use a different kind of mask that offers greater protection from people who have the virus. The masks that civilians can buy do not fit as well and are primarily used to prevent shedding virus from the individual wearing the mask to others. A nurse practitioner told one of my friends to get 7 paper sacks labeled with each day of the week. At the end of each day, she suggested putting the mask worn that day into the appropriate sack, and start using a new mask the following day. Theoretically, the virus will not be viable after one week, and the stored mask can be re-used. The practitioner, herself, and several of her fellow healthcare workers, are currently using this approach because of the shortage of masks. You're right; the spread of the virus cannot be stopped at the county level because each county and state are using different guidelines. In the area where I live most people are not yet taking the threat seriously, and they are still meeting in groups and carrying on business as usual. |
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Post by Peter on Mar 31, 2020 9:12:47 GMT -5
Why do you think that there would be a climate change? Any reason? I can sense it somehow, but what's the logic behind it? Oh I'm not saying climate change would be reversed in the first instance, just that massively reducing the amount of carbon dioxide we pump into the air would help prevent it from continuing to get worse in the medium term. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2020 9:21:40 GMT -5
Right, and there's nothing we can do about it right now, is there? Except maybe practicing some ATA -T...   As in all situations of crisis, it's worth making an assessment of what can be done and what can't anything be done about. And then focus on what can be done and let the rest be, aka trust in God but tie your camel. Yeah, remindes me of an old idea from a guy named Dale Carnegie: circle of influence vs. circle of concern. Yeah, if you are not very stable in your own alignment and follow the news all day long, you are going to end up at the very bottom of the emotional scale, at powerlessness. And down there at the bottom, your decisions are going to be suboptimal at best, no matter how much brainpower you are going to put into it. In fact, the more brainpower you are going to put into it when you are in such a state of mind/being, the more detrimental to your own well-being this might actually turn out. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2020 9:33:36 GMT -5
The belief comes with the senses already. The senses construct physical reality as we know it. With a different set of senses, you'd be living in a different reality. Ultimately, there's nothing objective about this world. It only seems that way because we can all agree on what we see. The term 'consensus trance' gets a whole new meaning here. So it would be a lot more appropriate to call this world an agreement based reality than a fact based reality, or even an objective reality. There's some good stuff about this in the Seth thread. Read a bit there and you'll get the idea. So it depends what your context is. If you speak in the context of physics or science in general, that's the relative context and there you may have a point. But if we speak in the context of non-duality, which is the absolute context, physical reality is just one of many models of reality, one of many belief systems (or ways of constructing 'reality'). How do you know about these other "models of reality"? Do you experience them directly? Basically, that's what SR is all about, isn't it? Seeing that what we think is real, isn't actually so. Even from a psychological perspective, everyone has their own model of reality. If you are in doubt, just watch a political talk show, hehe. Or think of hypnosis. The hypnotist view of reality is actually quite accurate in that sense. Usually we think we humans as rational beings with lapses of irrationality. The hypnotist view is the exact opposite, humans are irrational beings that like to give rational explanations for their irrational decisions/behavior. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2020 9:37:38 GMT -5
I can tell you though that this crisis may not actually be what it seems to be at the moment and that there are plans underway in the background for a life after the crisis, which may disappear as suddenly as it appeared on our radar. Are you speaking of plans at the level of government, or elsewhere Reefs ? What gives you evidence for those plans existing? In the UK (and this is filtered through the media of course) it very much seems like our government is working / reacting day to day and can't seem more than a week ahead - with the exception of some hints coming from other countries further on than we are (looting in Italy now?). This is evidenced by a gradual filling in of the response - what about the self employed, what about construction workers etc all questions being asked of our government and the response comes a couple of days later. I'm certainly enjoying the quietness. No planes in the sky, barely any cars on the road. If we could find a way to make this our way of life after this blows over then we could really address climate issues quickly. It would be radical action indeed. If I'd make an attempt to explain my perspective in detail on this forum, I wouldn't know where to start. And it would be off topic anyway. Definitely the wrong forum for this kind of discussion. But I'll see if I can send you a PM with a list of links that you can research by yourself. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 31, 2020 9:40:47 GMT -5
Are you speaking of plans at the level of government, or elsewhere Reefs ? What gives you evidence for those plans existing? In the UK (and this is filtered through the media of course) it very much seems like our government is working / reacting day to day and can't seem more than a week ahead - with the exception of some hints coming from other countries further on than we are (looting in Italy now?). This is evidenced by a gradual filling in of the response - what about the self employed, what about construction workers etc all questions being asked of our government and the response comes a couple of days later. I'm certainly enjoying the quietness. No planes in the sky, barely any cars on the road. If we could find a way to make this our way of life after this blows over then we could really address climate issues quickly. It would be radical action indeed.
He is not talking about plans at the level of government. He is saying Life is making that change.
Why do you think that there would be a climate change? Any reason? I can sense it somehow, but what's the logic behind it? No, that's not what he is saying. He is indeed talking about plans at the level of governments. He is not saying life is making that change.  |
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Post by laughter on Mar 31, 2020 10:05:21 GMT -5
(** thoughtful snicker **) Yeah, remindes me of an old idea from a guy named Dale Carnegie: circle of influence vs. circle of concern. Yeah, if you are not very stable in your own alignment and follow the news all day long, you are going to end up at the very bottom of the emotional scale, at powerlessness. And down there at the bottom, your decisions are going to be suboptimal at best, no matter how much brainpower you are going to put into it. In fact, the more brainpower you are going to put into it when you are in such a state of mind/being, the more detrimental to your own well-being this might actually turn out. Stoic conditioning can immunize even a people-peep from that kind of effect, as they were the original source of the concept of the witness in Western culture. There's a fascinating opportunity for observation here. History demonstrates time-and-time again how cultural group-think reshapes the reality of the members of that group. Some of it is negative, such as war and oppression of one group by another, some of it is positive in terms of changes that led to civil order and advancements in technology, a broadening and peaceful influence on human perspective/experience generally (iow: education), and other cultural facets contributing to standard-of-life. It's easy, in retrospect, to see how deception and Machiavellian ploys were used to effect the negative movements of the past. It's easy to see the narratives of how people were manipulated into supporting war and tolerating oppression. Living in these interesting times (to paraphrase from the old Chinese curse), presents a challenge to identify that as it's happening in the present.  I'm finding it quite similar to the psychological aspect of becoming conscious of the content and dynamic of mind, with the mind at issue in this case, being that collective group-think. |
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Take for example a simple scientific idea, or "theory" – objects dropped at about sea level fall with acceleration of 9.8 m/s2. You can test it, experience it, and measure it for yourself. It’s not one of more inspiring ideas, but it’s a good example. Where is the belief in that? It seems to be just a reporting of perceptions, in the language of mathematics. You don't have to construct beliefs about a material world, or your place in it, etc.
