Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Reefs]

The only thing you can be sure of

M: Why play with ideas? Be content with what you are sure of. And the only thing you can be sure of is ‘I am’. Stay with it, and reject everything else. This is Yoga.

Q: I can reject only verbally. At best I remember to repeat the formula: ‘This is not me, this is not mine. I am beyond all this’.

M: Good enough. First verbally, then mentally and emotionally, then in action. Give attention to the reality within you and it will come to light. It is like churning the cream for butter. Do it correctly and assiduously and the result is sure to come.

Q: How can the absolute be the result of a process?

M: You are right, the relative cannot result in the absolute. But the relative can block the absolute, just as the non-churning of the cream may prevent the butter from separating. It is the real that creates the urge; the inner prompts the outer and the outer responds in interest and effort. But ultimately there is no inner, nor outer; the light of consciousness is both the creator and the creature, the experiencer and the experience, the body and the embodied. Take care of the power that projects all this and your problems will come to an end.

I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 36

[Reefs]

When I say ‘I am’...

M: When I say: ‘I am’, I do not mean a separate entity with a body as its nucleus. I mean the totality of being, the ocean of consciousness, the entire universe of all that is and knows. I have nothing to desire for I am complete forever.

Q: Can you touch the inner life of other people?

M: I am the people.

Q: I do not mean identity of essence or substance, nor similarity of form. I mean the actual entering into the minds and hearts of others and participating in their personal experiences. Can you suffer and rejoice with me, or you only infer what I feel from observation and analogy?

M: All beings are in me. But bringing down into the brain the content of another brain requires special training. There is nothing that cannot be achieved by training.

Q: I am not your projection, nor are you mine. I am on my own right, not merely as your creation. This crude philosophy of imagination and projection does not appeal to me. You are depriving me of all reality. Who is the image of whom? You are my image or am I yours? Or am I an image in my own images! No, something is wrong somewhere.

M: Words betray their hollowness. The real cannot be described, it must be experienced. I cannot find better words for what I know. What I say may sound ridiculous. But what the words try to convey is the highest truth. All is one, however much we quibble. And all is done to please the one source and goal of every desire, whom we all know as the ‘I am’.

I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 36

[justlikeyou]

Nisargadatta: "When I say remember ‘I am’ all the time, I mean come back to it repeatedly. No particular thought can be mind’s natural state, only silence."

[Reefs]

M: When I say: ‘I am’, I do not mean a separate entity with a body as its nucleus. I mean the totality of being, the ocean of consciousness, the entire universe of all that is and knows. I have nothing to desire for I am complete forever.

Q: Can you touch the inner life of other people?

M: I am the people... All beings are in me.

Q: I am not your projection, nor are you mine. I am on my own right, not merely as your creation. This crude philosophy of imagination and projection does not appeal to me. You are depriving me of all reality. Who is the image of whom? You are my image or am I yours? Or am I an image in my own images! No, something is wrong somewhere.

This is an interesting dialog. Notice how Niz consistently speaks from the impersonal perspective and how the seeker, from his personal perspective, immediately turns what is said into solipsism and (rightly so!) takes offense at that and Niz (wrongly so!). Classic!

[laughter]

Jan 9, 2020 23:20:21 GMT -5 Reefs said:

M: When I say: ‘I am’, I do not mean a separate entity with a body as its nucleus. I mean the totality of being, the ocean of consciousness, the entire universe of all that is and knows. I have nothing to desire for I am complete forever.

Q: Can you touch the inner life of other people?

M: I am the people... All beings are in me.

Q: I am not your projection, nor are you mine. I am on my own right, not merely as your creation. This crude philosophy of imagination and projection does not appeal to me. You are depriving me of all reality. Who is the image of whom? You are my image or am I yours? Or am I an image in my own images! No, something is wrong somewhere.

This is an interesting dialog. Notice how Niz consistently speaks from the impersonal perspective and how the seeker, from his personal perspective, immediately turns what is said into solipsism and (rightly so!) takes offense at that and Niz (wrongly so!). Classic!

Niz was fine with creating a glorious confusion. It didn't happen with every conversant, but If the timing was right, it seems that sometimes his prescription was to create inner turmoil - or, at the very least, he just didn't care if that would happen, as it was just what seems to have had to happen. From the vids, he spoke with an urgency.

And if I spent the effort I could find a few shreds of dialog where he turns it personal.

[Reefs]

Jan 9, 2020 23:53:39 GMT -5 laughter said:

Jan 9, 2020 23:20:21 GMT -5 Reefs said:

This is an interesting dialog. Notice how Niz consistently speaks from the impersonal perspective and how the seeker, from his personal perspective, immediately turns what is said into solipsism and (rightly so!) takes offense at that and Niz (wrongly so!). Classic!

Niz was fine with creating a glorious confusion. It didn't happen with every conversant, but If the timing was right, it seems that sometimes his prescription was to create inner turmoil - or, at the very least, he just didn't care if that would happen, as it was just what seems to have had to happen. From the vids, he spoke with an urgency.

And if I spent the effort I could find a few shreds of dialog where he turns it personal.

Don't bother. Although a classic that has somewhat become a bible for 'non-dualists', 'I AM THAT' isn't really such a good book. I've just realized when I posted this latest series of quotes what a pain quoting from this book actually is. You have to be extremely careful with context. If you start a quote too late or cut it off too early, you very often destroy the context of the quote. My original plan was go thru the entire book and then post a synopsis, but that turns out to be a lot more difficult and time consuming than I originally thought. So I'll probably just nix that project on start looking into some other Niz books instead. 'I AM THAT' is spending too much time in the weeds and in terms of topics discussed, it's all over the place.

I've been browsing a bit thru Powell's book, and what he writes in the preface of the book is worth quoting:

Most of the discourses presented in these pages were given within the last year before Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s death and can therefore be considered, like those published in The Nectar of the Lord’s Feet, as the final teachings in more than one sense of the word. They are characterized by Maharaj’s desire, in the waning days of his life, to address only the key issues involved and to do so on the deepest level possible. One cannot help but detect a great sense of urgency and a desire to economize on his dwindling physical energy. This did not allow him to give much time to beginners in dealing with repetitive questions and elementary principles — what Maharaj used to call “kindergarten spirituality.”

Some readers of the earlier Nisargadatta books have told me they have noticed several inconsistencies in the material. They must bear in mind, however, that it does not concern a textbook of spirituality; these writings present a record of private conversations with a wide variety of inquirers with greatly different backgrounds, levels of spiritual development and capacities for understanding. Maharaj addressed each of his visitors according to his particular needs and circumstances. Thus, one person might be told to do a lot of meditation, and another, more advanced student, that there is no need for this at all and, in fact, it would be quite useless. He also used words in a very flexible way to suit the occasion. Whereas in the field of science and philosophy, absolute consistency may be regarded as a desirable goal, in the area of spirituality such a requirement would indicate an inappropriate approach to a far deeper and subtler subject, and a sign of remaining ignorance. My advice to readers, therefore, is to accept the material in a holistic manner rather than attempting a microscopic, comparative, and analytical evaluation of textual components. One’s openness or receptivity may well hold the key to any spiritual progress.

Robert Powell, The Ultimate Medicine, Preface

Bingo!

[laughter]

Jan 10, 2020 5:09:09 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jan 9, 2020 23:53:39 GMT -5 laughter said:

Niz was fine with creating a glorious confusion. It didn't happen with every conversant, but If the timing was right, it seems that sometimes his prescription was to create inner turmoil - or, at the very least, he just didn't care if that would happen, as it was just what seems to have had to happen. From the vids, he spoke with an urgency.

And if I spent the effort I could find a few shreds of dialog where he turns it personal.

Don't bother. Although a classic that has somewhat become a bible for 'non-dualists', 'I AM THAT' isn't really such a good book. I've just realized when I posted this latest series of quotes what a pain quoting from this book actually is. You have to be extremely careful with context. If you start a quote too late or cut it off too early, you very often destroy the context of the quote. My original plan was go thru the entire book and then post a synopsis, but that turns out to be a lot more difficult and time consuming than I originally thought. So I'll probably just nix that project on start looking into some other Niz books instead. 'I AM THAT' is spending too much time in the weeds and in terms of topics discussed, it's all over the place.

I've been browsing a bit thru Powell's book, and what he writes in the preface of the book is worth quoting:

Most of the discourses presented in these pages were given within the last year before Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj’s death and can therefore be considered, like those published in The Nectar of the Lord’s Feet, as the final teachings in more than one sense of the word. They are characterized by Maharaj’s desire, in the waning days of his life, to address only the key issues involved and to do so on the deepest level possible. One cannot help but detect a great sense of urgency and a desire to economize on his dwindling physical energy. This did not allow him to give much time to beginners in dealing with repetitive questions and elementary principles — what Maharaj used to call “kindergarten spirituality.”

Some readers of the earlier Nisargadatta books have told me they have noticed several inconsistencies in the material. They must bear in mind, however, that it does not concern a textbook of spirituality; these writings present a record of private conversations with a wide variety of inquirers with greatly different backgrounds, levels of spiritual development and capacities for understanding. Maharaj addressed each of his visitors according to his particular needs and circumstances. Thus, one person might be told to do a lot of meditation, and another, more advanced student, that there is no need for this at all and, in fact, it would be quite useless. He also used words in a very flexible way to suit the occasion. Whereas in the field of science and philosophy, absolute consistency may be regarded as a desirable goal, in the area of spirituality such a requirement would indicate an inappropriate approach to a far deeper and subtler subject, and a sign of remaining ignorance. My advice to readers, therefore, is to accept the material in a holistic manner rather than attempting a microscopic, comparative, and analytical evaluation of textual components. One’s openness or receptivity may well hold the key to any spiritual progress.

Robert Powell, The Ultimate Medicine, Preface

Bingo!

As far as the 2nd paragraph goes, I could easily mine my own dumpster for the exact same sentiments in the past few years. Expressed multiple times.

Yes, I understand what you mean about trying to find the right place to bound quotes from that book, and I noticed it years ago when I was generating them for these threads. Turns out that I wouldn't have had to look very far at all for that example of him speaking in the personal context.

My opinion as to "I AM THAT" differ's on two accounts: (1) as I already mentioned, I think the sense of urgency was clearly there. (2) I found it incredibly useful as it was really the first overtly Advaita material I'd consumed, and what I got out of it was noticing my past self in some of the questioner's, and coming to realize that "past me" would likely have objected to many of the other notions that Niz expounded on that I was unfamiliar with.

Your and Powell's opinion (don't know who he is) do pique my curiosity at this point about that later work. Dunno' if it will be enough impetus to bother reading it yet. We'll see.

[Reefs]

Jan 10, 2020 22:12:45 GMT -5 laughter said:

Jan 10, 2020 5:09:09 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Don't bother. Although a classic that has somewhat become a bible for 'non-dualists', 'I AM THAT' isn't really such a good book. I've just realized when I posted this latest series of quotes what a pain quoting from this book actually is. You have to be extremely careful with context. If you start a quote too late or cut it off too early, you very often destroy the context of the quote. My original plan was go thru the entire book and then post a synopsis, but that turns out to be a lot more difficult and time consuming than I originally thought. So I'll probably just nix that project on start looking into some other Niz books instead. 'I AM THAT' is spending too much time in the weeds and in terms of topics discussed, it's all over the place.

I've been browsing a bit thru Powell's book, and what he writes in the preface of the book is worth quoting:

Bingo!

As far as the 2nd paragraph goes, I could easily mine my own dumpster for the exact same sentiments in the past few years. Expressed multiple times.

Yes, I understand what you mean about trying to find the right place to bound quotes from that book, and I noticed it years ago when I was generating them for these threads. Turns out that I wouldn't have had to look very far at all for that example of him speaking in the personal context.

My opinion as to "I AM THAT" differ's on two accounts: (1) as I already mentioned, I think the sense of urgency was clearly there. (2) I found it incredibly useful as it was really the first overtly Advaita material I'd consumed, and what I got out of it was noticing my past self in some of the questioner's, and coming to realize that "past me" would likely have objected to many of the other notions that Niz expounded on that I was unfamiliar with.

Your and Powell's opinion (don't know who he is) do pique my curiosity at this point about that later work. Dunno' if it will be enough impetus to bother reading it yet. We'll see.

The book is a surprisingly easy read. I've already read 3 out of 11 chapters in less than 30 minutes. I'm not getting this alleged sense of urgency though. It's still the same Niz. And Niz goes a lot into vedanta theories of creation and perception, which reminds me of Satch, he talks exactly the same way. The dialogs are well structured and to the point. I am assuming it's because of heavy editing. And the editing is done rather well. Compared to I AM THAT, the English is a lot better, too. As of now, I don't really feel like quoting anything from the book. Not because there's nothing quote-worthy in it (quite to the contrary!) but because it's all been covered in I AM THAT already. The difference seems to be that it has just been compiled and edited in a better way than I AM THAT. Let's see how the rest of the book goes. I'll look into Dunn's books, too. As I remember, the dialogs there are much much shorter and Niz is a lot more economic with his time and energy. That's where you can sense a bit of urgency, but not in Powell's book so far. Just wanted to share my first impressions.

[laughter]

Jan 11, 2020 6:22:19 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jan 10, 2020 22:12:45 GMT -5 laughter said:

As far as the 2nd paragraph goes, I could easily mine my own dumpster for the exact same sentiments in the past few years. Expressed multiple times.

Yes, I understand what you mean about trying to find the right place to bound quotes from that book, and I noticed it years ago when I was generating them for these threads. Turns out that I wouldn't have had to look very far at all for that example of him speaking in the personal context.

My opinion as to "I AM THAT" differ's on two accounts: (1) as I already mentioned, I think the sense of urgency was clearly there. (2) I found it incredibly useful as it was really the first overtly Advaita material I'd consumed, and what I got out of it was noticing my past self in some of the questioner's, and coming to realize that "past me" would likely have objected to many of the other notions that Niz expounded on that I was unfamiliar with.

Your and Powell's opinion (don't know who he is) do pique my curiosity at this point about that later work. Dunno' if it will be enough impetus to bother reading it yet. We'll see.

The book is a surprisingly easy read. I've already read 3 out of 11 chapters in less than 30 minutes. I'm not getting this alleged sense of urgency though. It's still the same Niz. And Niz goes a lot into vedanta theories of creation and perception, which reminds me of Satch, he talks exactly the same way. The dialogs are well structured and to the point. I am assuming it's because of heavy editing. And the editing is done rather well. Compared to I AM THAT, the English is a lot better, too. As of now, I don't really feel like quoting anything from the book. Not because there's nothing quote-worthy in it (quite to the contrary!) but because it's all been covered in I AM THAT already. The difference seems to be that it has just been compiled and edited in a better way than I AM THAT. Let's see how the rest of the book goes. I'll look into Dunn's books, too. As I remember, the dialogs there are much much shorter and Niz is a lot more economic with his time and energy. That's where you can sense a bit of urgency, but not in Powell's book so far. Just wanted to share my first impressions.

Thanks, reading along might save me the effort of reading the books myself.

Here's what I consider an example of that urgency. Consider the dialog that is most widely quoted. Reading the conversation, from the start, I form the impression that the guy was insincere, had heard what Niz had to say before (from him or elsewhere), and was interested, essentially, in just pissing all over what Niz had to offer.

That quote is like a diamond, formed under pressure. There was an energy to his dialogs that comes through for me, and it takes from it the energy of the objections to the existential truth he was presented, and that's where I'm sensing that urgency: in his unwillingness to compromise, and his apparent insistence on leaving nothing unrevealed to his questioners. He had no time, for time itself.

[Reefs]

Jan 12, 2020 2:40:35 GMT -5 laughter said:

Jan 11, 2020 6:22:19 GMT -5 Reefs said:

The book is a surprisingly easy read. I've already read 3 out of 11 chapters in less than 30 minutes. I'm not getting this alleged sense of urgency though. It's still the same Niz. And Niz goes a lot into vedanta theories of creation and perception, which reminds me of Satch, he talks exactly the same way. The dialogs are well structured and to the point. I am assuming it's because of heavy editing. And the editing is done rather well. Compared to I AM THAT, the English is a lot better, too. As of now, I don't really feel like quoting anything from the book. Not because there's nothing quote-worthy in it (quite to the contrary!) but because it's all been covered in I AM THAT already. The difference seems to be that it has just been compiled and edited in a better way than I AM THAT. Let's see how the rest of the book goes. I'll look into Dunn's books, too. As I remember, the dialogs there are much much shorter and Niz is a lot more economic with his time and energy. That's where you can sense a bit of urgency, but not in Powell's book so far. Just wanted to share my first impressions.

Thanks, reading along might save me the effort of reading the books myself.

Here's what I consider an example of that urgency. Consider the dialog that is most widely quoted. Reading the conversation, from the start, I form the impression that the guy was insincere, had heard what Niz had to say before (from him or elsewhere), and was interested, essentially, in just pissing all over what Niz had to offer.

That quote is like a diamond, formed under pressure. There was an energy to his dialogs that comes through for me, and it takes from it the energy of the objections to the existential truth he was presented, and that's where I'm sensing that urgency: in his unwillingness to compromise, and his apparent insistence on leaving nothing unrevealed to his questioners. He had no time, for time itself.

"Widely quoted...", hehe.

Okay, now I really need to quote something from the book:

Niz: When people first come here, I always tell them that they come with the purpose of showing off their knowledge or trying to draw me into an argument. So I am aware of that, but I am even more strongly aware of the fact that such people have not got the slightest idea what they are talking about. I call it pure ignorance. It is for this reason that I say, don’t ask any questions, don’t even start discussing, until you have listened to the talk for a while and absorbed at least some of its contents. Then you can begin asking questions...

Intelligent people, extremely intelligent people, come here and ask me questions. And I answer them. So what happens? They don’t accept my replies. Why? Because they ask me from the point of view of identification with the body-mind. And I answer them from a point of view which is without such identification. So how can they understand me? How can the answers possibly tally with the questions?

Who are asking the questions? It is the persons who see themselves as existing in time, with the birth of the physical body as their base point; therefore, they ask questions from that point of view. But that view is false; it is a figment of their imagination — purely a bundle of memories, habits and imagination. They consider that as the truth; yet it is sheer ignorance, having no basis in reality at all. The day to which you are attaching so much importance met you when the body was born, and from that day onward you have been considering yourself as that body...

[Maharaj has just received an invitation to go by car to a village to talk to the people there] What was done to Christ might happen to me also, because Christ started telling the facts—the truth. And people got enraged and crucified him—they dared to shed his blood. Since my talk will be beyond the scope of their understanding, some of the audience may become very upset and disturbed. They will say, it’s no use, we must finish him off. It is because of the command of my guru that I am doing this, participating in all these talks. When I go to that village, I will have to discourse about God and purity; I must take the devotional approach. But if I gave the kind of talk that I am giving here, they would not be able to understand it. I should talk on their level of understanding — God, purity, and devotion.

The Ultimate Medicine, As prescribed by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 1

[justlikeyou]

Q: In my daily actions much goes by habit, automatically.

I am aware of the general purpose, but not of each movement in detail.

As my consciousness broadens and deepens, details tend to recede, leaving me free for the general trends.

Does not the same happens to a jnani, but more so?

M: On the level of consciousness -- yes.

In the supreme state, no.

This state is entirely one and indivisible, a single solid block of reality.

The only way of knowing it is to be it.

The mind cannot reach it.

To perceive it does not need the senses; to know it, does not need the mind.

[laughter]

Jan 12, 2020 12:36:02 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jan 12, 2020 2:40:35 GMT -5 laughter said:

Thanks, reading along might save me the effort of reading the books myself.

Here's what I consider an example of that urgency. Consider the dialog that is most widely quoted. Reading the conversation, from the start, I form the impression that the guy was insincere, had heard what Niz had to say before (from him or elsewhere), and was interested, essentially, in just pissing all over what Niz had to offer.

That quote is like a diamond, formed under pressure. There was an energy to his dialogs that comes through for me, and it takes from it the energy of the objections to the existential truth he was presented, and that's where I'm sensing that urgency: in his unwillingness to compromise, and his apparent insistence on leaving nothing unrevealed to his questioners. He had no time, for time itself.

"Widely quoted...", hehe.

Okay, now I really need to quote something from the book:

Niz: When people first come here, I always tell them that they come with the purpose of showing off their knowledge or trying to draw me into an argument. So I am aware of that, but I am even more strongly aware of the fact that such people have not got the slightest idea what they are talking about. I call it pure ignorance. It is for this reason that I say, don’t ask any questions, don’t even start discussing, until you have listened to the talk for a while and absorbed at least some of its contents. Then you can begin asking questions...

Intelligent people, extremely intelligent people, come here and ask me questions. And I answer them. So what happens? They don’t accept my replies. Why? Because they ask me from the point of view of identification with the body-mind. And I answer them from a point of view which is without such identification. So how can they understand me? How can the answers possibly tally with the questions?

Who are asking the questions? It is the persons who see themselves as existing in time, with the birth of the physical body as their base point; therefore, they ask questions from that point of view. But that view is false; it is a figment of their imagination — purely a bundle of memories, habits and imagination. They consider that as the truth; yet it is sheer ignorance, having no basis in reality at all. The day to which you are attaching so much importance met you when the body was born, and from that day onward you have been considering yourself as that body...

[Maharaj has just received an invitation to go by car to a village to talk to the people there] What was done to Christ might happen to me also, because Christ started telling the facts—the truth. And people got enraged and crucified him—they dared to shed his blood. Since my talk will be beyond the scope of their understanding, some of the audience may become very upset and disturbed. They will say, it’s no use, we must finish him off. It is because of the command of my guru that I am doing this, participating in all these talks. When I go to that village, I will have to discourse about God and purity; I must take the devotional approach. But if I gave the kind of talk that I am giving here, they would not be able to understand it. I should talk on their level of understanding — God, purity, and devotion.

The Ultimate Medicine, As prescribed by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 1

kant .. stop ... laughing at the same time that I'm filled with an embarrassing sense of reverence and awe.

[Reefs]

Jan 13, 2020 7:30:15 GMT -5 laughter said:

Jan 12, 2020 12:36:02 GMT -5 Reefs said:

"Widely quoted...", hehe.

Okay, now I really need to quote something from the book:

kant .. stop ... laughing at the same time that I'm filled with an embarrassing sense of reverence and awe.

Stop leffing and start reading.

[laughter]

Jan 19, 2020 6:52:24 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jan 13, 2020 7:30:15 GMT -5 laughter said:

kant .. stop ... laughing at the same time that I'm filled with an embarrassing sense of reverence and awe.

Stop leffing and start reading.

(** stretches, yawns **)

[Deleted]

prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/books/Nisargadatta-The_Ultimate_Medicine.pdf