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Post by Reefs on Jun 25, 2019 11:28:26 GMT -5
Do not Undervalue Attention
Q: You say that in our real being we are all equal. How is it that your experience is so different from ours.
M: My actual experience is not different. It is my evaluation and attitude that differ. I see the same world as you do, but not the same way. There is nothing mysterious about it. Everybody sees the world through the idea he has of himself. As you think yourself to be, so you think the world to be. If you imagine yourself as separate from the world, the world will appear as separate from you and you will experience desire and fear. I do not see the world as separate from me and so there is nothing for me to desire, or fear... There is absolutely no difference between me and others, except in my knowing myself as I am. I am all. I know it for certain and you do not. The difference is only in the mind and temporary. I was like you, you will be like me...By the grace of my Guru I can look with equal eye on the impersonal as well as the personal. Both are one to me. In life the personal merges in the impersonal.
Q: How does the personal emerge from the impersonal?
M: The two are but aspects of one Reality. It is not correct to talk of one preceding the other. All these ideas belong to the waking state.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 31
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Post by tenka on Jun 26, 2019 4:50:32 GMT -5
Again, let me agree with you in regards to there being both sides of the coin in regards to context which will at times reveal and reflect contradiction .. My only main pointer however was referring to niz when he said it’s just an idea that is neither right or wrong when associating life to a dream .. So what in your opinion would be the other side of the coin in regards to this statement (within context or within a different context) .. Does niz therefore also believe that it’s also 'not just an idea' and it is a matter of fact that what he say’s is correct or right or true? I am all for understanding different contexts but I don’t resonate with peeps changing their mind from one minute to the next keeping within the same context, it doesn’t reflect a sound foundation in my eyes . I am at a disadvantage because I haven’t read niz’s books but from what you posted it does seem that all mindful concepts are just ideas that one favours and there is no other side to that coin .. Maybe there is tho .. because he sees it as the gateway to the Supreme. This is actually similar to ET's 'portals' to the Unmanifested. So in a sense, he is teaching presence or mindfulness like any other teacher of rank. Niz can be confusing if you don't understand how radical his position is and what the words he uses mean. To Niz, consciousness and dream are synonyms. Which means the ignorance of buying into the dream, trying to find a way out of the dream, even dismissing everything as a dream and awakening from the dream are all part of the dream! As he says about the path, the ripening process and awakening, nothing like that is actually happening. That's all how it appears to the mind only. In reality, the Self is the Self - always. The Sun is always there, the Sun knows no night. That’s good advice .. and it’s relatively correct, right and true .. but the idea of that it is true or even a good idea isn’t necessarily true, right or correct .. By his own admission how he see's things is just his favoured idea .. I think the problem here is that philosophizing is what niz is actually doing when he is shouting at his students when they are perhaps not understanding him correctly .. In a way all niz has to do is say until you see things as I do I will bid you farewell .. What is the point of talking about things as you see it when you know others cannot see things as you do .. and when they do, if they ever do, seeing things in such a way is just an idea of how things are .. There is no right way to see . Everyone in this respect doesn't need to see any differently than they are . I would still be interested in the comparison niz has in regards to there is conceptual / perceptual truth in that even the idea of the idea that things are just favoured ideas IS correct and true . This is shifting all over, it’s trying to talk your way out of a maze where the sign posts are illusory .. but then somehow try and promote your signs as being kosher lol .. Seeing both sides of the coin as discussed is what comparisons are all about and this is why I have always stood my ground when asking for them ..This is why it is no good saying and believing that the world is like a dream without the other side of the coin being experienced / realised . For myself if I believed and somehow realized that the world was like a dream and everything said is just what is favoured as an idea I wouldn't be interested in teaching others how I see things . What would be the point in trying to allure another to see as I do when what is actually seen isn’t necessarily right, correct or true .. It’s the blind leading the blind in the maze built purely out of mind philosophy .. If that was the case, I would simply advise others not to go into the maze . |
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Post by tenka on Jun 26, 2019 4:57:13 GMT -5
Another point to add is that if you believe that the world perceived is just a favoured idea that is not necessarily true, correct or right then one would have to look at one's belief in that ..
You can't have a belief in that the world seen is just a favoured view without believing that to be correct, right or true lol ..
There would be no point making this type of statement otherwise .
I suppose it's another contradiction so to speak that only makes sense if you see it making sense ..
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Post by Reefs on Jun 26, 2019 8:23:01 GMT -5
I think the problem here is that philosophizing is what niz is actually doing when he is shouting at his students when they are perhaps not understanding him correctly .. In a way all niz has to do is say until you see things as I do I will bid you farewell .. He'd actually agree with you. If you'd come to him with bulky concepts, he'd cut you short and send you away with just one task: attending to the 'I am' 24/7. He has no patience with smarty pants seekers or over-intellectual wannabe gurus. What is the point of talking about things as you see it when you know others cannot see things as you do .. and when they do, if they ever do, seeing things in such a way is just an idea of how things are .. There is no right way to see . Everyone in this respect doesn't need to see any differently than they are . I would still be interested in the comparison niz has in regards to there is conceptual / perceptual truth in that even the idea of the idea that things are just favoured ideas IS correct and true . This is shifting all over, it’s trying to talk your way out of a maze where the sign posts are illusory .. but then somehow try and promote your signs as being kosher lol .. As he says repeatedly, what he does there is just pointing. Because Niz perspective is a context the seeker has no awareness of and no actual reference for. So what Niz is doing is engaging the seeker in a context both Niz and the seeker have a reference for. And from that smaller 'seeker context', Niz is pointing to the larger 'realized context'. And Niz native perspective is that ignorance, as anything else in the manifested world is temporary only. So from that perspective, if someone actually gets his point or not doesn't' matter at all. That's why he says no one ever fails in yoga. It's impossible. The false has no chance against what is real. As he says, it's all just a play and living is life's only purpose. Nothing serious going on and nothing ever to worry about. Niz once said that what's happening there when seekers visit him and he is explaining reality to them is just consciousness coming to see consciousness in order to talk about consciousness. So what could go wrong here, right?  |
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Post by laughter on Jun 26, 2019 8:30:17 GMT -5
. If you'd come to him with bulky concepts, he'd cut you short and send you away with just one task: attending to the 'I am' 24/7. He has no patience with smarty pants seekers or over-intellectual wannabe gurus. To my eye, there were several dialogs where he found an opportunity to undermine a conceptutrance by engaging with it. |
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Post by Reefs on Jul 14, 2019 9:02:04 GMT -5
The image in the mirror is of the face beyond the mirror
Q: What does it mean to go beyond the mind?
M: You have gone beyond the body, haven’t you? You do not closely follow your digestion, circulation or elimination. These have become automatic. In the same way the mind should work automatically, without calling for attention. This will not happen unless the mind works faultlessly. We are, most of our time, mind and body-conscious, because they constantly call for help. Pain and suffering are only the body and the mind screaming for attention. To go beyond the body you must be healthy; to go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond — the mess will bog you up. ‘Pick up your rubbish’ seems to be the universal law. And a just law too.
Q: How did you go beyond the mind?
M: By the grace of my Guru. He told me what is true. He told me I am the Supreme Reality. I trusted him and remembered it… My advice to you is even less difficult than this — just remember yourself. ‘I am’, is enough to heal your mind and take you beyond. Just have some trust.
Q: Why should self-remembrance bring one to self-realization?
M: Because they are but two aspects of the same state. Self-remembrance is in the mind, self-realization is beyond the mind. The image in the mirror is of the face beyond the mirror.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 32
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Post by Reefs on Jul 14, 2019 9:31:48 GMT -5
The question "Who am I?" has no answer
Q: I am being told that to think ‘I am the body’ is a blemish in the mind.
M: Why talk like this? Such expressions create problems. The Self is the source of all, and of all — the final destination. Nothing is external.
Q: When the body idea becomes obsessive, is it not altogether wrong?
M: There is nothing wrong in the idea of a body, nor even in the idea ‘I am the body’. But limiting oneself to one body only is a mistake. In reality all existence, every form, is my own, within my consciousness. I cannot tell what I am because words can describe only what I am not. I am, and because I am, all is. But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in consciousness I cannot say what I am. Yet, I am. The question ‘Who am I’ has no answer. No experience can answer it, for the self is beyond experience.
Q: Still, the question ‘Who am I’ must be of some use.
M: It has no answer in consciousness and, therefore, helps to go beyond consciousness.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 33
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Post by tenka on Jul 15, 2019 2:37:44 GMT -5
The image in the mirror is of the face beyond the mirror Q: What does it mean to go beyond the mind? M: You have gone beyond the body, haven’t you? You do not closely follow your digestion, circulation or elimination. These have become automatic. In the same way the mind should work automatically, without calling for attention. This will not happen unless the mind works faultlessly. We are, most of our time, mind and body-conscious, because they constantly call for help. Pain and suffering are only the body and the mind screaming for attention. To go beyond the body you must be healthy; to go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond — the mess will bog you up. ‘Pick up your rubbish’ seems to be the universal law. And a just law too. Q: How did you go beyond the mind? M: By the grace of my Guru. He told me what is true. He told me I am the Supreme Reality. I trusted him and remembered it… My advice to you is even less difficult than this — just remember yourself. ‘I am’, is enough to heal your mind and take you beyond. Just have some trust. Q: Why should self-remembrance bring one to self-realization? M: Because they are but two aspects of the same state. Self-remembrance is in the mind, self-realization is beyond the mind. The image in the mirror is of the face beyond the mirror. I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 32 This is an interesting line of thought . Being told that you are the Supreme Reality by your guru is not the same as remembering for oneself . In a way you don't remember post realization as the realization itself is beyond mind as I have always maintained .. |
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Post by Reefs on Jul 17, 2019 9:01:01 GMT -5
This is an interesting line of thought . Being told that you are the Supreme Reality by your guru is not the same as remembering for oneself . In a way you don't remember post realization as the realization itself is beyond mind as I have always maintained .. In order to make sense of what Niz is saying there you have to remember that to Niz the sense of 'I am' belongs to the realm of mind. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 11, 2019 8:13:42 GMT -5
There is no such thing as peace of mind
Q: I seek peace of mind. I studied the philosophy of Yoga and it did help me. It gave me peace of mind.
Niz: Did it? Is your mind at peace? Is your search over?
Q: No, not yet.
Niz: Naturally. There will be no end to it, because there is no such thing as peace of mind. Mind means disturbance; restlessness itself is mind. Yoga is not an attribute of the mind, nor is it a state of mind. Examine closely and you will see that the mind is seething with thoughts. It may go blank occasionally, but it does it for a time and reverts to its usual restlessness. A becalmed mind is not a peaceful mind. You say you want to pacify your mind. Is he, who wants to pacify the mind, himself peaceful?
Q: No. I am not at peace, I take the help of Yoga.
Niz: Don’t you see the contradiction? For many years you sought your peace of mind. You could not find it, for a thing essentially restless cannot be at peace. The peace you claim to have found is very brittle; any little thing can crack it. What you call peace is only absence of disturbance. It is hardly worth the name. The real peace cannot be disturbed. Can you claim a peace of mind that is unassailable?
The self does not need to be put to rest. It is peace itself, not at peace. Only the mind is restless. All it knows is restlessness, with its many modes and grades. But changes by themselves cannot bring us to the changeless, for whatever has a beginning must have an end. The real does not begin; it only reveals itself as beginningless and endless, all-pervading, all-powerful, immovable prime mover, timelessly changeless.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 34
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Post by tenka on Aug 12, 2019 3:48:46 GMT -5
Perhaps it's more likened to the calming of the storm, the choppy seas, or paying no attention to the monkey mind or the wild horses .
No point really in referring to the 'real Peace' because it has no place in or of the mind.
How I see it there are various degrees of suffering had and there are ways and means of reducing the effects.
You can't stop the rain from falling just as you can't stop a troubling thought from arising but peeps can tell the difference between certain environments that can create more noise than other's.
Finding an environment within and without can reflect harmony or not, an energy that resonates within ourselves or not.
I don't see finding oneself in these instances as a waste of time or as a search for something that is in someway futile, simply because it might be sunny one minute and overcast the next .
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Post by Reefs on Aug 12, 2019 10:45:55 GMT -5
You cannot find what you have not lost
M: The personality (vyakti) is but a product of imagination. The self (vyakta) is the victim of this imagination. It is the taking yourself to be what you are not that binds you. The person cannot be said to exist on its own right; it is the self that believes there is a person and is conscious of being it. Beyond the self (vyakta) lies the unmanifested (avyakta), the causeless cause of everything. Even to talk of re-uniting the person with the self is not right, because there is no person, only a mental picture given a false reality by conviction. Nothing was divided and there is nothing to unite.
Q: Yoga helps in the search for and the finding of the self.
M: You can find what you have lost. But you cannot find what you have not lost.
M: The true knowledge of the self is not a knowledge. It is not something that you find by searching, by looking everywhere. It is not to be found in space or time. Knowledge is but a memory, a pattern of thought, a mental habit. All these are motivated by pleasure, and pain. It is because you are goaded by pleasure and pain that you are in search of knowledge. Being oneself is completely beyond all motivation. You cannot be yourself for some reason. You are yourself, and no reason is needed.
Q: By doing Yoga I shall find peace.
M: Can there be peace apart from yourself? Are you talking from your own experience or from books only? Your book knowledge is useful to begin with, but soon it must be given up for direct experience, which by its very nature is inexpressible.
Q: I did attain a degree of inner peace. Am I to destroy it?
M: What has been attained may be lost again. Only when you realize the true peace, the peace you have never lost, that peace will remain with you, for it was never away. Instead of searching for what you do not have, find out what is it that you have never lost. That which is there before the beginning and after the ending of everything; that to which there is no birth, nor death. That immovable state, which is not affected by the birth and death of a body or a mind, that state you must perceive.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 31
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Post by tenka on Aug 13, 2019 1:49:51 GMT -5
Q: By doing Yoga I shall find peace.
M: Can there be peace apart from yourself?
Yoga is union .
This is why when practiced correctly you lose self within in it .
One could equally reword the following ..
Q: By doing self enquiry I shall find my true self.
M: Can there be a true self apart from yourself?
In this instance one could equally say don't self enquire because what you really are is already present ..
Don't do yoga or meditate because the peace experienced comes and goes ..
Why do anything under the umbrella of impermanence? Why love another human being? Why mow the lawn lol ..
It seems as if at times anything that isn't permanent is waste of space and time and yet what is pointed to beyond the impermanence like 'Peace' is never going to be experienced of the mind ... so it's no point pointing to what is present but isn't realized when what is realized so to speak will be beyond the self-mind ..
It's a bit like the Jed convo the other day, just pointing to beyond the relative from a relative position.
Doing this in my eyes just negates the point and the position .
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 10, 2019 20:23:56 GMT -5
Found on the Quora website.
by Edg Duveyoung
Whence fate? Here’s the Master’s words.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj: The "I am" has great potency; the entire manifestation has come from it. When you dwell in the "I am," as your destiny, you realize that your destiny is not death but the disappearance of "I am.”
Those 37 words are the embodiment of Advaita Vedanta.
WARNING: That quote is a Wisdom of Mass Deconstruction!
Actually, almost any quote of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj is as densely packed with truths so incendiary that even that which does not exist yet still is burnt and then its illusory ashes too are burnt again and then the imaginary smoke breaks down to magical atoms which loosen into piles of subatomic pretend particles that evaporate into clouds of improbable quarks which explode into impossible strings which which which . . . I’m not smart enough to say more . . . you’ll need a bigger brain to lead you past Stringville and onward to Unknown Town when you hitch a ride with Nisargadatta on the Transcendental Highway.
Sue me — Yeah, I just supersized a nothing burger metaphor with malt and fries.
Nisargadatta’s entirety seems to be hidden in the least of his conceptual packages. If you read all his books, you will come across “I am” often enough to finally get in harmony with Nisargadatta’s mind about it, AND THEN THE FUN BEGINS. The quote above is absolutely typical for Nisargadatta. When you get comfy with his mind, then any quote instantly expands; it tsunamis the intellect with a host of adjutant correlatives that are but a nuance from being axioms themselves. One swoons!
Advaita’s message is that distinctions are arbitrary and phenomenal.
The “I am” — which is the state of being — is the “factory outlet” of the absolute.
Its plenitude is inexhaustible.
Endless names and forms — utterly unfathomable.
Because it is infinite, woe unto the soul lost in being’s vastness.
You for instance.
You’ve popped into being by assuming that you are the form “body” and the name “person.” Two notorious liars! One says, “You’re me.” The other says, “I’m me.” Ew, eh?
Advaita says, “Let’s call the whole thing off.”
So Nisargadatta advises that we don’t our doing so we will then see that that non-doingness, being, is as if our “destiny” — a natural conclusion to “thinking life’s incarnation.”
This death of doing is not the death of identity.
We are urged to remain above the mind in this quieter loftier state of being, silence ethereal, and then, that’s the best one can do when it comes to don’ting — “destiny-wise.” To reside in being indicates that one has arrived atop one's own private sacred mountain. Going higher requires a Divine Hand reaching down to grab one. It’s Grace’s hand.
Being is the least mind-event that can still be defined as identity. Amness.
So
— One waits for the extinction of distinction.
— One waits to become inexplicably not — a disappearance.
When we meditate, we get as quietly expansive as possible until we slip out of being and into pure being — awareness — a sentience not yet manifest. That’s the death of I am and the realization that true identity requires no birth.
Mostly this happens when you least expect it. Okay, it’s always a surprise.
You never know . . . until you can’t know that knowing never is.
Still, maybe comb the hair, shine the shoes, check for spinach in the teeth.
Couldn’t hurt to prep for arriving in Heaven is all I’m sayin’.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 9, 2020 8:52:43 GMT -5
The Body
M: When I say I am free, I merely state a fact. If you are an adult, you are free from infancy. I am free from all description and identification. Whatever you may hear, see, or think of, I am not that. I am free from being a percept, or a concept.
Q: Still, you have a body and you depend on it.
M: Again you assume that your point of view is the only correct one. I repeat: I was not, am not, shall not be a body. To me this is a fact. I too was under the illusion of having been born, but my Guru made me see that birth and death are mere ideas — birth is merely the idea: ‘I have a body’. And death — ‘I have lost my body’. Now, when I know I am not a body, the body may be there or may not — what difference does it make? The body-mind is like a room. It is there, but I need not live in it all the time.
Q: Yet, there is a body and you do take care of it.
M: The power that created the body takes care of it.
Q: We are jumping from level to level all the time.
M: There are two levels to consider — the physical — of facts, and mental — of ideas. I am beyond both. Neither your facts, nor ideas are mine. What l see is beyond. Cross-over to my side and see with me.
I Am That: Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Chapter 35
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