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Post by satchitananda on Aug 7, 2019 12:07:21 GMT -5
"Enlightenment brings about a transformation of perception and attitude -a metanoesis -whereby for the rest of the life-span, the "individual person", having lost his individuality becomes the mahakarta, the mahabhokta, the mahatyag. As a Mahakarta (the supreme doer of actions), he is totally free of doubt, which is inevitably based on the ego-concept. Appropriate actions get performed through him in any circumstances (whether they may be considered as right or wrong according to the current social standards). The point is that his actions are not tainted by any of the multitude of mental notions and prejudices. "He" witnesses the actions with complete indifference to the results that might follow, since he is not the doer. As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), he actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. Even when engaged in actions, he does not grasp or cling to what would generally be considered as "acceptable", nor does he abhor or avoid and reject anything that would generally be considered "unacceptable". As a Maliatyagi (the supreme renouncer), he has renounced his separate individuality as the "me" opposed to the "other" and thereby has at once renounced all other interrelated opposites including birth and death, good and evil, etc. He is thus the pure witnessing of the dream-play play that this life is. From "The Final Truth: A Guide to Ultimate Understanding" Ramesh Balsekar Ramesh! Is that standard terminology from the classics? Good question. I'll do a bit of research. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 7, 2019 14:59:22 GMT -5
Glad you're having fun with it. I can believe that it's at least sometimes fun, that much comes through on what I did read of the blog.  Did you feel any sort of sense of disillusionment or betrayal when you discovered that Kenneth wasn't really Jed? deleted at tano's request Yes, generally speaking, people's perceptions are quite frighteningly distorted. Anyone who's ever moved through the world with a genuinely quiescent mind for even a short interval can discern that from popular media. A quiet mind is one that can focus clearly. No transcendent realization necessary. I can definitely relate to that sense of incredulity you describe. One issue that exemplifies that sense for me is the fact of the American national debt and the way that's spun out during my lifetime. I've found that simply relating to people one-on-one, directly, can mitigate the madness, and failing that, it offers the opportunity to consciously choose when and how far down the rabbit hole to go. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 7, 2019 15:01:56 GMT -5
Glad you're having fun with it. I can believe that it's at least sometimes fun, that much comes through on what I did read of the blog. Did you feel any sort of sense of disillusionment or betrayal when you discovered that Kenneth wasn't really Jed? I wonder about this too. She was so deeply convinced that it WAS Jed. I recall how dismissive she was to those who tried to tell her, he wasn't. That's gotta be hard when a theory you've bought into hook line an sinker, and invested time and energy into, gets revealed to be false like that. A cautionary (but illuminating) tale in all of it. Conversely, how many people ever climb their way out of a deception like that one on their own through their own devices? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 21:51:52 GMT -5
But Jed does make some attempts in trying to explain how light and easy his world is, and how content he is all the time. But to me what he describes as contentment looks more like boredom. Maybe that's where the idea of the world as a funhouse/amusement park comes from. That's it exactly! When I read Jed's descriptions of life in the relative it feels like boredom, world weariness. But non attachment does not mean non involvement. I think figgles is referring to something I quoted from Ramakrishna which is, "for the realized the world becomes a mansion of delights". As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), one actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. Yup. Disengagement = Boredom. And yeah, 'weariness' is a facet of that as well.
Indeed, non attachment does not mean non involvement. And yes, I do recall you referencing the 'mansion of delights' quote, but not the first I've heard of it. MY term is: Life becomes a playground. (That said, sometimes dogs poop in the playground...doesn't mean though, it's no longer a playground ). |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 8, 2019 9:20:41 GMT -5
If you just disagree with what I see, I can accept that. Fine. But why do you always have to spit at everybody? Reefs says: "I still don't get your obsession with this ‘Jed’ character. Seems to me like some kind of love/hate relationship you've developed there that you want to shake off but somehow can't. And you are also memorializing it with your blog."
"If you move from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country without proper preparations (studying history, customs, culture and language), that can be the shock of your life because the contrast is so extreme."
"if you don't want to come across as a teenager who got jilted by her favorite pop star idol then you may want to make some changes to your blog and how you present yourself."
"then I'm done with this Jed stuff. Really not worth all the hype. And I hope you'll do the same and move on or the hype will continue."
"people and circumstances you encounter are always a match to and reflect your actual inner state of being. So if someone who is traumatized goes to such a place what kind of people will s/he encounter?"
"Like Jed, you are confusing tough talk and strong language with an actual no-nonsense attitude. And like Jed, your BS detector is only directed outward, but never inward."
"You, on the other hand, seem to have your entire life revolving around it. So try to look at my input here as merely an alternative perspective, as from a bystander."
"Anyway, enough with the psychoanalyzing."
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I disagree.
As mentioned before, I will meet you on your level and will reflect to you exactly what you are sending my way, which the above is a sample of.
Hence, if you perceive it as 'spitting', it is because you spit on people. I do not believe in 'turn the other cheek', and fake humility so characteristic of fake spirituality - does not sit well with me.
Also, it is not 'spitting at everybody' as you state; it is you and I, our specific interaction dynamics.
I do have to say though that you have mellowed a bit since having taken over the reigns of the forum moderator a few years back.
Now, enough drama. You said you are done with all this McKenna stuff. So be it, and let's wrap it up. It is really not worth your energy, Reefs.
So, you took the bait. Mckenna? Lol. We’re long done here with McKenna. This is all about you now. You got played. My reply to you was a line taken from the frogs playbook. It was actually directed at Laffy. He should have recognized it right away. And he probably has. He didn’t take the bait. It’s his reaction I was curious about, not yours. You had to reply with a counterpunch and another putdown, of course. Your reaction was entirely predictable. That's all I wanted to know. Anyway, thanks for playing along. Cheers |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 8, 2019 9:22:52 GMT -5
Ramesh! Is that standard terminology from the classics? Good question. I'll do a bit of research. We have to be careful with Ramesh, he's already taken liberties with Niz. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 10:47:31 GMT -5
If I was passionately writing about bee keeping, or about Jack the Ripper or about the whereabouts of Akhenaten's burial ground - it would be 'acceptable', but anything with a hint of 'spiritual' causes people to jump in with value judgements and unsolicited 'advice'. I've had a ton of those since publishing the website. I think you're missing the bit about you seeking to 'out' someone who clearly prefers to remain anonymous, and then as you deemed him to be behaving in a manner that you did not approve of, to publicly condemn him for that. That puts your interest into an entirely different category of interests to those you describe above. Sure, but to be fair, much of what you relied upon to arrive at the firm conviction that Kenneth was Jed was also based upon hear-say. You also ignored the salient points others made to you regarding the differences in the way forum Jed speaks/explains things vs. the Jed of the books, etc. You were absolutely convinced that you had the real Jed in Kenneth. It's kind of shocking actually how far you went with that conclusion and now how you just gloss over the fact that you were dead wrong, and that you are now at it again, claiming to know for absolute certain who the actual Jed is. Any incredulity at yourself...your own mind being so easily bamboozled into believing what you clearly 'wanted' to believe? I find it quite incredible myself that all you've come away with is incredulity at others....no mention at all of looking at what went on in your mind as you became interested/invested in this pursuit and as you ultimately fully bought into a complete fallacy. You do indeed set a very high bar for others. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 11:01:22 GMT -5
I've been looking for a particular quote of his I shared a few months ago, but can't seem to find it. Jed specifically states in it that being awake means you no longer care at all or find anything of importance within the dream. Very brown-bearish. I think he's gotten close to that in a few of the quotes you've shared here....specifically the one where he talks about no longer being interested in anything but walking with his dog and the insinuation that this is how it will be for anyone who is enlightened.
Brown-bearish and juvenile, actually. But he calls it Human Adulthood. As Tano pointed out, he's got the Ministry of Awakening tactics and lingo down to a tee. So, if you turn everything what he says about his own state of being on his head and treat what he says about others as a projection, you may get pretty close to Jed's actual state of mind/being. He talks about how for the truth-realized everything in life is winding down to a bare minimum. But he quickly adds, that this impression may just be to the fact that he's becoming 'an old poop', hehe. But that's what he believes, yes. The disclaimers are usually just window dressing. Because he keeps talking about it as if it were a universal fact. Not quite the "mansion of delights/life as a playground" view, is it? Not at all. But Jed does make some attempts in trying to explain how light and easy his world is, and how content he is all the time. But to me what he describes as contentment looks more like boredom. Maybe that's where the idea of the world as a funhouse/amusement park comes from. ETA: The Cast Away quote is actually much longer. After the part I quoted he talks about how he always knew that 'the island' will be where he's eventually heading, and that his dog will be his Wilson, even if it means becoming a little 'soft in the head' to make it work. Yeah, for me the claims that all is light and easy, contrasted far too much with his accounts of barely being able to tolerate a few moments in the company of other folks and such. (His own sister at one point).... And in my estimation, this is at least partly the result of an author creating a character who must adhere to a set of behaviors/personality, while at the same time attempting to put forth spiritual Truths/insights that extend beyond the fictional story.
Again, while I don't know for certain, I suspect the author is actually nothing like Jed in terms of personality...that Jed is purely a fictional character the author has created to demonstrate how the SR cannot be pidgeon-holed.
Am I right that you take it more as a memoir type of deal?
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Post by Reefs on Aug 8, 2019 11:38:15 GMT -5
Yeah, for me the claims that all is light and easy, contrasted far too much with his accounts of barely being able to tolerate a few moments in the company of other folks and such. (His own sister at one point).... And in my estimation, this is at least partly the result of an author creating a character who must adhere to a set of behaviors/personality, while at the same time attempting to put forth spiritual Truths/insights that extend beyond the fictional story.
Again, while I don't know for certain, I suspect the author is actually nothing like Jed in terms of personality...that Jed is purely a fictional character the author has created to demonstrate how the SR cannot be pidgeon-holed.
Am I right that you take it more as a memoir type of deal?
My focus is on the ideas put forth in the books, the perspective from which the books are written. So to me, if the actual name of the author is Jed or not, or if there are several others hiding behind a pen name Jed McKenna or if it is all stolen from someone else is irrelevant. That's why to me, Tano's 'finding-the-real-Jed- mission is such a waste of life. What she's found so far still looks like a great deal of speculation. And even if she could, one day, beyond a doubt prove who the real Jed is, I wouldn't know what to do with that information, because to me it is irrelevant information. An interesting story, yes. But it's not going to affect my judgement of the content of these books. Tano, however, seems to think that she does a service to humanity. That's how far apart our perspectives are. Well, some dialogs may be pure fiction, especially the emails from 'students'. But I do think that the stories in the books have at least 'some' basis in reality. So while I think the books contain a lot of fiction, I wouldn't put the books into the category of spiritual fiction, like let's say Siddharta by Herman Hesse. Hesse's book is pure fiction. But unlike Jed's books, it's an organic whole and also very well written. Max called Jed's book 'cheap'. And I can understand why he would say that. |
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Post by andrew on Aug 8, 2019 13:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah, for me the claims that all is light and easy, contrasted far too much with his accounts of barely being able to tolerate a few moments in the company of other folks and such. (His own sister at one point).... And in my estimation, this is at least partly the result of an author creating a character who must adhere to a set of behaviors/personality, while at the same time attempting to put forth spiritual Truths/insights that extend beyond the fictional story.
Again, while I don't know for certain, I suspect the author is actually nothing like Jed in terms of personality...that Jed is purely a fictional character the author has created to demonstrate how the SR cannot be pidgeon-holed.
Am I right that you take it more as a memoir type of deal?
My focus is on the ideas put forth in the books, the perspective from which the books are written. So to me, if the actual name of the author is Jed or not, or if there are several others hiding behind a pen name Jed McKenna or if it is all stolen from someone else is irrelevant. That's why to me, Tano's 'finding-the-real-Jed- mission is such a waste of life. What she's found so far still looks like a great deal of speculation. And even if she could, one day, beyond a doubt prove who the real Jed is, I wouldn't know what to do with that information, because to me it is irrelevant information. An interesting story, yes. But it's not going to affect my judgement of the content of these books. Tano, however, seems to think that she does a service to humanity. That's how far apart our perspectives are. Well, some dialogs may be pure fiction, especially the emails from 'students'. But I do think that the stories in the books have at least 'some' basis in reality. So while I think the books contain a lot of fiction, I wouldn't put the books into the category of spiritual fiction, like let's say Siddharta by Herman Hesse. Hesse's book is pure fiction. But unlike Jed's books, it's an organic whole and also very well written. Max called Jed's book 'cheap'. And I can understand why he would say that.Pulp Fiction.  Can't knock some of the quotes though, and I can't say that it had zero value to me at the time. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 8, 2019 14:27:32 GMT -5
Yeah, for me the claims that all is light and easy, contrasted far too much with his accounts of barely being able to tolerate a few moments in the company of other folks and such. (His own sister at one point).... And in my estimation, this is at least partly the result of an author creating a character who must adhere to a set of behaviors/personality, while at the same time attempting to put forth spiritual Truths/insights that extend beyond the fictional story.
Again, while I don't know for certain, I suspect the author is actually nothing like Jed in terms of personality...that Jed is purely a fictional character the author has created to demonstrate how the SR cannot be pidgeon-holed.
Am I right that you take it more as a memoir type of deal?
My focus is on the ideas put forth in the books, the perspective from which the books are written. So to me, if the actual name of the author is Jed or not, or if there are several others hiding behind a pen name Jed McKenna or if it is all stolen from someone else is irrelevant. That's why to me, Tano's 'finding-the-real-Jed- mission is such a waste of life. What she's found so far still looks like a great deal of speculation. And even if she could, one day, beyond a doubt prove who the real Jed is, I wouldn't know what to do with that information, because to me it is irrelevant information. An interesting story, yes. But it's not going to affect my judgement of the content of these books. Tano, however, seems to think that she does a service to humanity. That's how far apart our perspectives are. Well, some dialogs may be pure fiction, especially the emails from 'students'. But I do think that the stories in the books have at least 'some' basis in reality. So while I think the books contain a lot of fiction, I wouldn't put the books into the category of spiritual fiction, like let's say Siddharta by Herman Hesse. Hesse's book is pure fiction. But unlike Jed's books, it's an organic whole and also very well written. Max called Jed's book 'cheap'. And I can understand why he would say that. Well, I do wonder though, how the real author or authors reacted when they found out that someone was making money and building a following impersonating them. I wonder whether they anticipated that or expected it or were cynical about it or whether it perhaps made them think twice about the original anonymity decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 15:01:14 GMT -5
I wonder about this too. She was so deeply convinced that it WAS Jed. I recall how dismissive she was to those who tried to tell her, he wasn't. That's gotta be hard when a theory you've bought into hook line an sinker, and invested time and energy into, gets revealed to be false like that. A cautionary (but illuminating) tale in all of it. Conversely, how many people ever climb their way out of a deception like that one on their own through their own devices? Is it really on 'your own devices' when the evidence simply becomes too obvious to continue to ignore? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 15:02:20 GMT -5
If you just disagree with what I see, I can accept that. Fine. But why do you always have to spit at everybody? tano has never spit at me as I recall. You've likely never challenged her or openly disagreed with her. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 8, 2019 18:48:51 GMT -5
Conversely, how many people ever climb their way out of a deception like that one on their own through their own devices? Is it really on 'your own devices' when the evidence simply becomes too obvious to continue to ignore? Yes, because it's really easy to find examples of people clinging to obvious and outright lies despite clear and convincing evidence of them. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 8, 2019 18:55:59 GMT -5
bye for now tano. Wish you the best. I'll leave you with this: figgles' point about trading one impersonator for someone who very well might be another is worth considering.
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