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Post by Reefs on Aug 6, 2019 20:01:22 GMT -5
With people like yourself - it always becomes about personals. I shared some facts about 'Jed', because the discussion caught my attention. In my last few responses I also did give my partial opinion on you. One has to meet people on their level and to speak their language. You will get from me exactly to the level of your evolution as is now, and no more. Anything else would be a waste of energy. I am not interested, Reefs.
And leave Laughter out of it. We may not agree on some points, but he has never been anything but gallant and insightful, and I respect that.
Like Jed, you are confusing tough talk and strong language with an actual no-nonsense attitude. And like Jed, your BS detector is only directed outward, but never inward. Laughter has got his own 'Jed' situation to deal with. It's been going on for several years now. So of all the people here on the forum, he's probably the one who may come closest in understanding your current situation. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 6, 2019 20:28:40 GMT -5
I've been looking for a particular quote of his I shared a few months ago, but can't seem to find it. Jed specifically states in it that being awake means you no longer care at all or find anything of importance within the dream. Very brown-bearish. I think he's gotten close to that in a few of the quotes you've shared here....specifically the one where he talks about no longer being interested in anything but walking with his dog and the insinuation that this is how it will be for anyone who is enlightened.
Brown-bearish and juvenile, actually. But he calls it Human Adulthood. As Tano pointed out, he's got the Ministry of Awakening tactics and lingo down to a tee. So, if you turn everything what he says about his own state of being on his head and treat what he says about others as a projection, you may get pretty close to Jed's actual state of mind/being. He talks about how for the truth-realized everything in life is winding down to a bare minimum. But he quickly adds, that this impression may just be to the fact that he's becoming 'an old poop', hehe. But that's what he believes, yes. The disclaimers are usually just window dressing. Because he keeps talking about it as if it were a universal fact. Not quite the "mansion of delights/life as a playground" view, is it?  Not at all. But Jed does make some attempts in trying to explain how light and easy his world is, and how content he is all the time. But to me what he describes as contentment looks more like boredom. Maybe that's where the idea of the world as a funhouse/amusement park comes from. ETA: The Cast Away quote is actually much longer. After the part I quoted he talks about how he always knew that 'the island' will be where he's eventually heading, and that his dog will be his Wilson, even if it means becoming a little 'soft in the head' to make it work. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 20:39:01 GMT -5
Laughter has got his own 'Jed' situation to deal with. It's been going on for several years now.  .. well, I can understand how it seems that way to you ..  |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 20:41:22 GMT -5
Not interested in stepping into this dialog. Like. At all. ..  .. But I did want to remind you that a few years ago I gave you the advice to forget all about this Jed character. Don't step into it. I am not interested either. Don't you know from your experience that any kind of advice like that to people in general - always falls on deaf ears? The deception part is of interest to me. I see nothing wrong in pursuing what is of interest to me. Other things are of interest to other people, right? I don't understand why people always think they know better what is good for whom, and what those other people should do. I mean.. you saw Reefs 'advice' to me. 'Change my persona in order to alter people's perceptions of me'.
Yeah right. Some advice on creating a fake persona... I don't really give a hoots what human perceptions are of me and of my perceptions. I know who and what I am, something that cannot be said about the vast majority of humans.
As I said.. I visited, interacted, perhaps, overstayed my welcome too. I wish you.. being he-he. Preferably, a comfortable one.  P.S It is called 'Enlightenment Myth' for a reason. There are no enlightened beings, but shhhh... don't tell others. They will never believe you.
I apologize for not keeping up with your blog. But I am interested: are you still friends with Kenneth? |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 20:43:10 GMT -5
Not interested in stepping into this dialog. Like. At all. .. .. But I did want to remind you that a few years ago I gave you the advice to forget all about this Jed character. Jed's fun! |
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Post by satchitananda on Aug 6, 2019 21:51:01 GMT -5
But Jed does make some attempts in trying to explain how light and easy his world is, and how content he is all the time. But to me what he describes as contentment looks more like boredom. Maybe that's where the idea of the world as a funhouse/amusement park comes from. That's it exactly! When I read Jed's descriptions of life in the relative it feels like boredom, world weariness. But non attachment does not mean non involvement. I think figgles is referring to something I quoted from Ramakrishna which is, "for the realized the world becomes a mansion of delights". As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), one actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 7, 2019 1:46:24 GMT -5
But Jed does make some attempts in trying to explain how light and easy his world is, and how content he is all the time. But to me what he describes as contentment looks more like boredom. Maybe that's where the idea of the world as a funhouse/amusement park comes from. That's it exactly! When I read Jed's descriptions of life in the relative it feels like boredom, world weariness. But non attachment does not mean non involvement. I think figgles is referring to something I quoted from Ramakrishna which is, "for the realized the world becomes a mansion of delights". As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), one actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. The Supreme Enjoyer! Where did get that from?  If you only live in your head, you can't really enjoy anything. That's where I see the root of misanthropism - too much thinking. Not surprisingly, most philosophers and intellectuals are misanthropists, and some even suffer from severe depression. That's rock bottom on the emotional scale. And when you look into the world from the negative extreme end of the emotional scale, it doesn't look pretty (duh!) Too much thinking creates a severe imbalance and the result is a very lopsided, unbalanced view of things. But a lot of people got there by logical thinking, deep and logical thinking. They think like that for a reason, very logical reasons, 'fact based' as they might say. So it's basically impossible to shake them out of it via conversations like this one that appeal to the intellect only. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 7, 2019 2:05:21 GMT -5
Like Jed, you are confusing tough talk and strong language with an actual no-nonsense attitude. And like Jed, your BS detector is only directed outward, but never inward. Laughter has got his own 'Jed' situation to deal with. It's been going on for several years now. So of all the people here on the forum, he's probably the one who may come closest in understanding your current situation. In two short passages you have managed to belittle and put down three people. Congratulations. That's one way of looking at it. And I can understand why it seems that way to you. But that's not my intention. I have no dog in this the-real-identity-of-Jed fight. You, on the other hand, seem to have your entire life revolving around it. So try to look at my input here as merely an alternative perspective, as from a bystander. As Jed says, there are people who know they are stuck and want to get unstuck, and there are people who don't know they are stuck and just want to pass time and pass judgement. The first group reacts to criticism with gratitude, the second group sees it as a personal attack. |
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Post by satchitananda on Aug 7, 2019 3:56:15 GMT -5
Where did get that from? "Enlightenment brings about a transformation of perception and attitude -a metanoesis -whereby for the rest of the life-span, the "individual person", having lost his individuality becomes the mahakarta, the mahabhokta, the mahatyag. As a Mahakarta (the supreme doer of actions), he is totally free of doubt, which is inevitably based on the ego-concept. Appropriate actions get performed through him in any circumstances (whether they may be considered as right or wrong according to the current social standards). The point is that his actions are not tainted by any of the multitude of mental notions and prejudices. "He" witnesses the actions with complete indifference to the results that might follow, since he is not the doer. As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), he actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. Even when engaged in actions, he does not grasp or cling to what would generally be considered as "acceptable", nor does he abhor or avoid and reject anything that would generally be considered "unacceptable". As a Maliatyagi (the supreme renouncer), he has renounced his separate individuality as the "me" opposed to the "other" and thereby has at once renounced all other interrelated opposites including birth and death, good and evil, etc. He is thus the pure witnessing of the dream-play play that this life is. From "The Final Truth: A Guide to Ultimate Understanding" Ramesh Balsekar |
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Post by laughter on Aug 7, 2019 7:04:57 GMT -5
I apologize for not keeping up with your blog. But I am interested: are you still friends with Kenneth? deleted at tano's request Glad you're having fun with it. I can believe that it's at least sometimes fun, that much comes through on what I did read of the blog. Did you feel any sort of sense of disillusionment or betrayal when you discovered that Kenneth wasn't really Jed? |
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Post by laughter on Aug 7, 2019 7:25:59 GMT -5
In two short passages you have managed to belittle and put down three people. Congratulations. That's one way of looking at it. And I can understand why it seems that way to you. But that's not my intention. I have no dog in this the-real-identity-of-Jed fight. You, on the other hand, seem to have your entire life revolving around it. So try to look at my input here as merely an alternative perspective, as from a bystander. As Jed says, there are people who know they are stuck and want to get unstuck, and there are people who don't know they are stuck and just want to pass time and pass judgement. The first group reacts to criticism with gratitude, the second group sees it as a personal attack. It's quite natural for someone to interpret "you are confused" as a personal attack, and that's regardless of whether it's true or not. As far as relating to other people goes, it's harder to establish intimacy with someone when you're placing yourself above them in a hierarchy such as "I'm enlightened, and you're not", and easier when you don't do that. That's not to suggest that you have any interest in that or to criticize you for the absence of that interest, should that be the case, but rather, simply offering an alternative explanation as to why tano and I are having the kind of dialog we're having. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 7, 2019 11:21:24 GMT -5
That's one way of looking at it. And I can understand why it seems that way to you. But that's not my intention. I have no dog in this the-real-identity-of-Jed fight. You, on the other hand, seem to have your entire life revolving around it. So try to look at my input here as merely an alternative perspective, as from a bystander. As Jed says, there are people who know they are stuck and want to get unstuck, and there are people who don't know they are stuck and just want to pass time and pass judgement. The first group reacts to criticism with gratitude, the second group sees it as a personal attack. Do you not really see the irony of bringing Jed to support your claim of criticism versus personal attack? That from a man who has done everything to stay out of the line of fire by way of anonymity? As he once said however... (and not in his books) - you can always recognize the trailblazers: they are the ones with the arrows in the a s s. He got plenty of arrows in the ass from personal experience, so I don't blame him from being reticent now; humans can get quite nasty believe me. But this is what I would say to you personally.\ If you choose once again to continue the conversation on the lines of 'You did this and you are that' - the conversation will be over for good.\
If you just disagree with what I see, I can accept that. Fine. But why do you always have to spit at everybody? |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 7, 2019 11:30:49 GMT -5
Where did get that from? "Enlightenment brings about a transformation of perception and attitude -a metanoesis -whereby for the rest of the life-span, the "individual person", having lost his individuality becomes the mahakarta, the mahabhokta, the mahatyag. As a Mahakarta (the supreme doer of actions), he is totally free of doubt, which is inevitably based on the ego-concept. Appropriate actions get performed through him in any circumstances (whether they may be considered as right or wrong according to the current social standards). The point is that his actions are not tainted by any of the multitude of mental notions and prejudices. "He" witnesses the actions with complete indifference to the results that might follow, since he is not the doer. As a Mahabhokta (the supreme enjoyer), he actively enjoys all the natural and spontaneous experiences which come about without any desire or effort. Even when engaged in actions, he does not grasp or cling to what would generally be considered as "acceptable", nor does he abhor or avoid and reject anything that would generally be considered "unacceptable". As a Maliatyagi (the supreme renouncer), he has renounced his separate individuality as the "me" opposed to the "other" and thereby has at once renounced all other interrelated opposites including birth and death, good and evil, etc. He is thus the pure witnessing of the dream-play play that this life is. From "The Final Truth: A Guide to Ultimate Understanding" Ramesh Balsekar Ramesh! Is that standard terminology from the classics? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 11:43:55 GMT -5
I don't expect anyone to. I have never been friends with Kenneth. We corresponded for 3.5 years via email on my belief that he was the real author. When he opened his second forum I got suspicious, as the intent got clear to me, which was in direct opposition to the books declarations of no teaching. I began to investigate. Got the results. Not 'Jed'. Wisefool Press got their (lame) disclaimer up in August 2017 as a result of the website and the revelations of money exchanging hands in the name of 'Jed'. The first Ken's forum on web.com got shut as a result as well, as someone (not me, but I know who) complained to the forum owners about impersonation. The Createaforum, however, seems to have different criteria compared to webs.com, and so this IG forum is still running. Ken made it quite difficult to penetrate though. It used to be open to PMs and placing any threads without moderation. Now no information appears unless he approved of it first. He is also hustling for a following in Thailand via yoga outlets, of which there are plenty.
Just two weeks ago there was another attempt by a different (published) spiritual teacher to pass himself off as 'Jed'. His book was published under Jed account and was pulled by the Amazon after two weeks, when people began leaving negative comments as to 'Not Jed'. This life's little mystery is fun.
Glad you're having fun with it. I can believe that it's at least sometimes fun, that much comes through on what I did read of the blog. Did you feel any sort of sense of disillusionment or betrayal when you discovered that Kenneth wasn't really Jed? I wonder about this too. She was so deeply convinced that it WAS Jed. I recall how dismissive she was to those who tried to tell her, he wasn't. That's gotta be hard when a theory you've bought into hook line an sinker, and invested time and energy into, gets revealed to be false like that. A cautionary (but illuminating) tale in all of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 11:46:45 GMT -5
Glad you're having fun with it. I can believe that it's at least sometimes fun, that much comes through on what I did read of the blog. Did you feel any sort of sense of disillusionment or betrayal when you discovered that Kenneth wasn't really Jed? If I was passionately writing about bee keeping, or about Jack the Ripper or about the whereabouts of Akhenaten's burial ground - it would be 'acceptable', but anything with a hint of 'spiritual' causes people to jump in with value judgements and unsolicited 'advice'. I've had a ton of those since publishing the website. But what I also saw quite clearly in the past year or so and based on the experience of this investigation is this: human history is written from predominantly 'hear-say'. Very few are privy to real facts and how real events transpired. Heck, even the provenance of the Enlightenment Myth website and how I arrived at Ken's name -is already being misinterpreted and disfigured. Why? Because no one pays attention to details. The facts are there for people to see, published, and if something is not clear - ask a simple and straight forward question, and one gets a straight forward answer. I had people who kept accusing me of not providing evidence for Ken's past misdemeanor and kept demanding to see it, after having stated that they have read EVERY entry on the website. Until I literally posted a link for the dumbhead. What does it tell you about human minds? Simple. Yet - most don't use theirs in any constructive way. They emote and call this 'thinking'. Regarding Kenneth. I didn't feel a sense of betrayal or disillusionment. What I felt could be described (and I did before) as incredulity at the fact that someone can lie so skillfully for so long and yet get away with it every time. I was contacted by some of his former Canadian acquaintances who told me Kenneth had swindled them out of money way back in his day. Since it would be unthinkable to me to ever attempt an act like that - I found it incredulous that not only another can (nothing new about that, right?), but that people around him (his so called students) HAVE ACCEPTED IT AS A NORM. People discuss the theoretical ins and outs of all known 'spiritual' postulates and fail to notice their own distinctly unspiritual norms of existence and behaviour right here right now. I find it in equal parts amusing and sad, a complete divorce from Reality and into the intellectual. Yet, they blame me for 'thinking' to much. Thinking, clean and clear thinking is vital to conscious existence. Or else we are animals acting out hormonal surges. Humans have set the bar pretty low when it comes to dealing with one another, don't you think? Or, perhaps, my bar is set too high for most. "... Who claims Truth, Truth abandons. History is hir'd, or coerc'd, only in Interests that must ever prove base. She is too innocent, to be left within the reach of anyone in Power,—who need but touch her, and all her Credit is in the instant vanish'd, as if it had never been. She needs rather to be tended lovingly and honorably by fabulists and counterfeiters"Thomas Pynchon Straightforward answer? Am still awaiting a reply to my question.
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